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 Another sick feral

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jimc2000
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PostSubject: Re: Another sick feral   Wed Apr 28, 2010 3:29 pm

I got 25 peas into her, but then, within a couple of minutes of being put back in her box she threw up 8 of them. She seems to have kept the rest down though, at least so far...
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AZWhitefeather
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PostSubject: Re: Another sick feral   Wed Apr 28, 2010 4:00 pm

jimc2000 wrote:

I got 25 peas into her, but then, within a couple of minutes of being put back in her box she threw up 8 of them.

She seems to have kept the rest down though, at least so far...

Just a thought, Jim, maybe give her a smaller amount a little more frequently. At this point and time, the amount might be too much 'solid' food for her to digest all at once. I have NO idea

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Matilda
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PostSubject: Re: Another sick feral   Wed Apr 28, 2010 4:05 pm

That's a good idea to feed fewer peas. Could be this next time she will be able to tolerate 25 though.
How much applesauce wee you feeding each time and how often?
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jimc2000
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PostSubject: Re: Another sick feral   Wed Apr 28, 2010 11:32 pm

Matilda wrote:
How much applesauce wee you feeding each time and how often?

Between 12 and 16 ccs every 4 or 5 hours

The baytril seems to be working -- her poops are noticeably more normal-looking.



She felt good enough to fly out of her box when I took this picture. She landed on the table, and we spent some time trying to eat. I offered her water and she drank a bunch. Then I offered her some peas. She picked up one and ate it, and then almost immediately began acting like she was going to throw up. Nothing came out of her mouth though. I offered her a little bit of cornbread and she ate maybe a teaspoonful, and then, again, acted like she was going to throw up. She ate a couple more peas and then did the throwing-up motions again. I put her back in her box to settle down. Should I try applesauce again, in a little while, since she doesn't seem to have any problems holding that down?
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AZWhitefeather
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PostSubject: Re: Another sick feral   Thu Apr 29, 2010 8:09 am

jimc2000 wrote:

I offered her water and she drank a bunch. Then I offered her some peas. She picked up one and ate it, and then almost immediately began acting like she was going to throw up. Nothing came out of her mouth though. I offered her a little bit of cornbread and she ate maybe a teaspoonful, and then, again, acted like she was going to throw up. She ate a couple more peas and then did the throwing-up motions again.

I put her back in her box to settle down. Should I try applesauce again, in a little while, since she doesn't seem to have any problems holding that down?

Hmmm One or two peas isn't enough to cause her to vomit, however she acts like she is going to, and several peas actually causes her to vomit. From your description, it almost sounds like she has some kind of obstruction going on.

I would continue with the applesauce. At least with that she is getting something in and it isn't coming back up.

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Matilda
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PostSubject: Re: Another sick feral   Thu Apr 29, 2010 8:47 am

Hmmm ...
How does her crop feel? Does it feel like she has any strange shapes in her crop that don't go away?
Can you see anything by looking down her throat?

Here are some ideas and what I would do if she were in my care... because she still isn't getting enough nourishment which is evident by the way her poop looks. You need to start this right away because I don't think she is going to make it if you don't.

1. 1 Drop of pepto before feeding.
2. Add powdered baby rice cereal to the applesauce. I alwaus warm it by placing the syringe in a bowl of hot water and then check the temp by putting a drop on my wrist.
3. Try feeding peas for human babies
4. Feed less more often such as 10 ccs, 4-6 times a day.

At this point, she needs more nourishment than just the applesauce. The applesauce was intended for just a day or two at the most. You can try exact formula in small amounts 4-6 times a day too.

Have you wormed her, Jim?
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jimc2000
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PostSubject: Re: Another sick feral   Thu Apr 29, 2010 9:22 am

Her crop is empty now and I couldn't feel anything strange in it. I didn't see anything unusual looking down her throat, but she wasn't exactly holding still for me. I'll try again when I can get a friend to help.

I don't have any powdered baby rice cereal , but I will get some. I have everything else though. Can I mix Exact formula with the applesauce and give her that? (She is cooperative about being fed applesauce and seems to really like it, whereas formula is still an unknown..)

I just gave her 1/2 a baytril for the day since her crop was empty and figured I would wait a bit before trying to get food into her. (I don't want her to vomit up the baytril) Is an hour long enough to wait?

As far as worming goes, I gave her a mediworm tablet on Sunday.

I'll start focusing on getting her calorie intake up. Do I wait any amount of time after giving her the drop of pepto before I feed her?

It almost looks like any solid food (cornbread or peas) makes her want to vomit, and enough solid food (20 or so peas) does make her vomit. The baytril seems to have made a big change in her poops -- does that tell us anything?


Last edited by jimc2000 on Thu Apr 29, 2010 10:07 am; edited 1 time in total
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Matilda
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PostSubject: Re: Another sick feral   Thu Apr 29, 2010 9:39 am

Jim...the baytril dose is...1/4 pill...not 1/2.
If the bayril is working, she likely does have a bacterial infection of some kind.

Try adding a bit or formula into the applesauce to see if she can tolerate it. It needs to be slight warmed or she will vomit it for sure.

I know you know about the food being slightly warmed and so any repeat of information is for future readiers of this thread.
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jimc2000
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PostSubject: Re: Another sick feral   Thu Apr 29, 2010 10:18 am

While I was waiting for your reply, I gave her about 6 ccs of applesauce (which she was receptive to) and about 3 ccs of pea baby food (which she didn't like at all.) I did this without pepto to see how she would react to it. No signs of wanting to vomit yet.

I'll try formula mixed with applesauce in an hour or so and see how that goes. I'll do the drop of pepto first.

One question on warming the applesauce and other foods: although it starts off warm, during the time it takes to get it all into her, it cools down to room temperature. Is that OK, or do I need to keep it warm the whole time? I could rig up something to keep it warm during the 5 minutes of so of feeding (like maybe putting the applesauce into a little "cup made out of aluminum foil that sits in a cup of warm water.)
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Matilda
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PostSubject: Re: Another sick feral   Thu Apr 29, 2010 10:51 am

I keep a small cup of hot water that I put the syringe into to warm the formula . I change the water as it cools down.... room temperture isn't as bad as cold though.


Feeding her more often is good, just not if she has food in the crop.
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AZWhitefeather
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PostSubject: Re: Another sick feral   Thu Apr 29, 2010 3:41 pm

jimc2000 wrote:

It almost looks like any solid food (cornbread or peas) makes her want to vomit, and enough solid food (20 or so peas) does make her vomit.

The baytril seems to have made a big change in her poops -- does that tell us anything?

It will be interesting to see if after the Baytril has really taken affect, the 'solid' food will begin to stay down. Hmmm

Please do keep us posted.

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jimc2000
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PostSubject: Re: Another sick feral   Thu Apr 29, 2010 4:06 pm

Fortunately, the applesauce and formula mix is somewhat of a hit. She really likes it, so at least she and I have a common goal when I'm feeding her...
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Matilda
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PostSubject: Re: Another sick feral   Thu Apr 29, 2010 4:11 pm

That's really good news, Jim.
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jimc2000
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PostSubject: Re: Another sick feral   Thu Apr 29, 2010 7:27 pm

I just wanted to report a couple of developments.

First, her poops are looking more normal as far as shape and urate content, but there is some unpleasant green color showing up, though not as bad as before. I'll post a photo later.

Second, when she slipped out of the birdie-burrito T-shirt during the last feeding, she jumped up on my desk and just sat there. After I started working on the computer again, she came over and stood by my arm and started to doze. She seems to just want some company, so I've been letting her stay there.

When I ate dinner, she was very interested in what I was eating so I gave her some samples. Surprisingly, she got very excited about Morningstar Farms vegetarian chicken substitute (basically, textured vegetable protein) This is the product:

http://www.morningstarfarms.com/product_detail.aspx?id=321

Since she liked it so much, I gave her about 1/2 a teaspoonful crumbled up and she gobbled it down enthusiastically. So far, there's no sign that she feels like throwing up.

Has anyone else had any experience feeding this to a pigeon?
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Matilda
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PostSubject: Re: Another sick feral   Thu Apr 29, 2010 7:42 pm

I eat that Jim, but I've never given it to a Pigeon before.

I'm not surprised there is green in her poop still. I think she has been one sick bird. Does she act cold?
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jimc2000
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PostSubject: Re: Another sick feral   Thu Apr 29, 2010 8:06 pm

Matilda wrote:
Does she act cold?

Yes, she stays fluffed up all the time. She has started preening herself, which I think is probably a good sign.
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Matilda
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PostSubject: Re: Another sick feral   Thu Apr 29, 2010 8:15 pm

You have her on a heating pad...right?
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jimc2000
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PostSubject: Re: Another sick feral   Thu Apr 29, 2010 8:25 pm

Matilda wrote:
You have her on a heating pad...right?

Yes. Here's a picture of her which I took as I was typing up this reply. Since she wants to sit on my desk, I tipped her box over on it's side, and she wanders on and off the heating pad as the mood suits her.



It looks like she's settling in for the night there, so I'll rig up some kind of cover to help hold in the heating pad heat.
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Matilda
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PostSubject: Re: Another sick feral   Thu Apr 29, 2010 8:39 pm

Poor thing...she looks really miserable.

Did you treat her for coccidia? I think it would be a good idea. I think several things are making her feel so bad.
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jimc2000
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PostSubject: Re: Another sick feral   Thu Apr 29, 2010 9:08 pm

Matilda wrote:
Did you treat her for coccidia?

No. I have Appertex 2.5 mg tablets. Is it OK for her to take that while she's on the baytril?
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Matilda
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PostSubject: Re: Another sick feral   Thu Apr 29, 2010 9:10 pm

Yes...give one pill tonight and repeat in 10 days.
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AZWhitefeather
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PostSubject: Re: Another sick feral   Thu Apr 29, 2010 9:14 pm

Poor baby. She really is fluffed isn't she? Very sad

Has she been able to keep the food down that you have given her?

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Cindy

A Pigeon's Prayer
Please watch over us while we fly,
Keeping us safe from the predators that share the sky.

If we become ill or injured in any way,
Please lead us to safety where we are welcome to stay.
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jimc2000
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PostSubject: Re: Another sick feral   Fri Apr 30, 2010 6:43 am

Fancyfeathers wrote:
Has she been able to keep the food down that you have given her?

So far, she's kept it all down...
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AZWhitefeather
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PostSubject: Re: Another sick feral   Fri Apr 30, 2010 7:25 am

jimc2000 wrote:
Fancyfeathers wrote:
Has she been able to keep the food down that you have given her?

So far, she's kept it all down...

YESS!! Thrilled

A big YOU rock LOTS to both of you.

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Cindy

A Pigeon's Prayer
Please watch over us while we fly,
Keeping us safe from the predators that share the sky.

If we become ill or injured in any way,
Please lead us to safety where we are welcome to stay.
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Matilda
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PostSubject: Re: Another sick feral   Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:24 am

That's encouraging news, Jim.
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