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 2 squeakers that need help

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AZWhitefeather
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PostSubject: Re: 2 squeakers that need help   Sun Aug 29, 2010 1:24 pm

Hey Dev,
I was just taking a closer look at the babies and in the last picture, that pox has some yellow coloring to it. I'm not very familiar with pox but I'm wondering if there might not be some canker involved as well. I have NO idea It's just a thought.

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PostSubject: Re: 2 squeakers that need help   Sun Aug 29, 2010 2:21 pm

Matilda wrote:
Priya...
* I wouldn't put the tea tree oil on these babies. I has been toxic to some birds and these birds in the weakened condition...it could do them in.

** Once they have some food in them, they should be treated for canker as canker and pox seem to go hand in hand...probably because the pox weakens the immune system thus giving canker the go a head to take over too.

They need food but it's critical they be thoroughly warmed and hydrated first. I usually give 5 ccs warmed hydrating solution and once it's placed out of the crop, give 5ccs more and so on...

* I didn't realize that either. Serious EEK!! Any info about the toxicity?

** I missed this.
Perhaps that is canker on the pox that I was wondering about. Hmmm



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Teresa
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PostSubject: Re: 2 squeakers that need help   Mon Aug 30, 2010 7:38 am

Priya and Dev,

Thank you so much for all your efforts to help those two babies, and I'm sorry about all the worry and frustration caused by the delays.
It's really tragic that they are so weak and so ill, and I'll be keeping you and them in my thoughts and prayers, hoping that the babies will be able to pull through.

You've got the most important advice already. But you're probably struggling with the thought of what to feed them if they aren't able to process solid food, as I can't get any decent formula either. What you probably can get is baby cereal (by Nestle's or another brand). Chose one without milk products, just cereal or cereal with honey, and that one has vitamins, calcium and a probiotic included. Baby apple sauce, marketed in some countries as baby apple dessert, already comes in the right consistency, and only needs warming.
Either can be fed by the 'syringe method' or by tube feeding. Do you want links for videos showing these?

There's also a thread here about a bird with serious canker on his face which might help. I'll go look for it.

http://www.pigeonangels.com/pigeon-rescue-suspect-injury-f6/squeaker-with-missing-eye-t1780.htm
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PostSubject: Re: 2 squeakers that need help   Mon Aug 30, 2010 8:12 am

Thank you all for the great links and information, it was really needed and very useful.
I have passed on the info to Dev. Since yesterday Dev has been keeping the 2 babies constantly warm on a hot water bag. They like to sit on it and snuggle up.

He also has kept them hydrated with both glucose water and plain water. One thing noticeable is that the 2 birds are very eager to drink plain water. Even today after Dev returned from his exams and went to check on them, it looked as if they were desperately searching the floor for water and making gulping actions in the throat Very sad

Dev rushed and got a bowl of water and placed it in front of them to see if they drink on their own. The good thing is both drank on their own and drank quite a lot of water.

He is feeding them very less solids after what i read here and the link Charis gave on emaciated birds and their reduced ability to process solids which could do them in. He feeds them green peas that has been soaked in warm water for a few hours so that it gets really mushy. The birds take in 10-15 at a time.

Apart from that they are very quiet and keep sitting in the cage Very sad Feel very bad looking at their condition. We hope they can completely recover from this.

The poops were very watery yesterday with black particles because they were totally starving.
Today after the hydration and some food, it has changed to green but still watery with the black particles.


There is no obstruction inside the beak. It looks clear. But Dev told me he got some smell on the birds. Don't know if it is due to the pox :(

From what Charis and Cindy mentioned and looking at the pic sent by Teresa, it could also be canker? That would be really bad Very sad

Felt terrible looking at the poor bird's pic sent by Teresa.

These birds don't look so bad but i felt there was a resemblance with the yellow thing near the eyes :(

Wanted to ask: With the birds currently being very weak and with the immune system still down, do you feel it is a good idea to start with the canker meds?
Or do we wait for a day or two for them to build up some strength?
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PostSubject: Re: 2 squeakers that need help   Mon Aug 30, 2010 8:16 am

Teresa wrote:
Priya and Dev,

Thank you so much for all your efforts to help those two babies, and I'm sorry about all the worry and frustration caused by the delays.
It's really tragic that they are so weak and so ill, and I'll be keeping you and them in my thoughts and prayers, hoping that the babies will be able to pull through.

You've got the most important advice already. But you're probably struggling with the thought of what to feed them if they aren't able to process solid food, as I can't get any decent formula either. What you probably can get is baby cereal (by Nestle's or another brand). Chose one without milk products, just cereal or cereal with honey, and that one has vitamins, calcium and a probiotic included. Baby apple sauce, marketed in some countries as baby apple dessert, already comes in the right consistency, and only needs warming.
Either can be fed by the 'syringe method' or by tube feeding. Do you want links for videos showing these?

There's also a thread here about a bird with serious canker on his face which might help. I'll go look for it.

http://www.pigeonangels.com/pigeon-rescue-suspect-injury-f6/squeaker-with-missing-eye-t1780.htm

Thank you Teresa.
I think we should be able to get Nestle baby food here. Will ask Dev to see if there's one without the milk solids and only with cereal and probiotics as you mentioned.

Not very sure if baby apple sauce is available. We will check.
The poor bird in the pic looks real bad Very sad We are hoping these 2 babies don't have canker and hope that it could just be a case of pox. But with the yellow substance...:(
Reading the recent painful incidents of you, Louise and a few other members here losing these poor babies to canker makes us feel terrible. Such a dreaded disease Very sad
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PostSubject: Re: 2 squeakers that need help   Mon Aug 30, 2010 8:36 am

I was going through the entire thread about Jim's rescue and all i can tell is that it is incredible! Jim you rock Pigeon angel

The poor bird certainly seemed to have such a severe case of canker, it's unbelievable how Jim could respond to it so well and got it right back on the road to recovery. Felt very good to read. Esp. the pics where entire mass was falling off surrounding the poor bird's beak...it was extremely scary, but what a fighter the little one turned out to be!

I am glad the bird could be saved and everything went well.

This again makes me ask, do we start with the canker meds now or do we wait for a day? As the birds are very weak and haven't got enough strength.

Also what would be the best? Metrodinazole (which is available in tablet form here) or Spatrix? Dev only has 3 Spatrix tabs.
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PostSubject: Re: 2 squeakers that need help   Mon Aug 30, 2010 8:41 am

Priya...tell Dev that he will need to feed 40-60 peas per feeding as the amount he is feeding isn't nearly enough.
Yes he should treat for canker now so the canker doesn't have a chance to take over. Just because canker can't be seen in the throat doesn't mean the bird doesn't have canker.
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PostSubject: Re: 2 squeakers that need help   Mon Aug 30, 2010 8:51 am

One of the things that may help dry out the pox is to swab the leisions lightly with iodine, being careful not to get it into the eyes.
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PostSubject: Re: 2 squeakers that need help   Mon Aug 30, 2010 8:56 am

Sure Charis will let him know. From what i understand when i spoke to him, he said the birds were spitting out the seeds after taking around 15. So not sure if they aren't able to process further than that. But i shall pass on the message.

Will ask him to start with the canker meds by today night then. Can he use metronidazole? If so, what would be the dosage? I think he may be aware of it by now considering he has asked you this in the past. But just to be on the safer side, i am confirming with you again.

Will also tell him about Iodine. I think it will be available at the chemist shops here.
Thanks
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PostSubject: Re: 2 squeakers that need help   Mon Aug 30, 2010 9:18 am

Are these dried peas he is soaking? If so, it would be best to cook them until they are soft before feeding them to the babies. He can also try feeding cooked rice.

Yes...metronidazole is good for canker.Does he have a way to weigh them so we can help with a dose?
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PostSubject: Re: 2 squeakers that need help   Mon Aug 30, 2010 9:51 am

Charis,

I am feeding them soaked peas, they are very soft after being soaked for 5-8 hours.

I do have a weighing scale, but it is at my friend's place. Will get it over by morning. Will let you know about their weight. In the mean time, from my guess they should be between 200 to 300 grams, not more than that. Metronodizole tablet available here is 400 mg.

Also I just rechecked, I actually have 6 Spartrix tablets with me right now.
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PostSubject: Re: 2 squeakers that need help   Mon Aug 30, 2010 10:09 am

Dev...you can use the spartrix. I would give them each one before you go to sleep.

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PostSubject: Re: 2 squeakers that need help   Mon Aug 30, 2010 10:20 am

Sure, will do that Charis.
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PostSubject: Re: 2 squeakers that need help   Mon Aug 30, 2010 10:21 am

Dev...do the peas have any kind of shell on them? If so, you might try removing it.

I don't know if you have grocery stores the way we do in the US or if there is any kind of prepared food for human babies. Here, we can buy powdered rice cereal that mixed with warm water, one can use to feed pigeons. When my pigeon rescuing days began, there was no such thing as a prepared hand feeding formula just for birds and so I learned to improvise. Another thing you might try is cooked until they are soft,carrots.
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PostSubject: Re: 2 squeakers that need help   Mon Aug 30, 2010 10:57 am

Dev...I don't know how far it is from your place, but apparently you can buy Rice Cereal for babies at Hyderabad. It's on Road no 2 Banjara Hills and shop's name is Q-Mart. It's near food world. They keep Gerber cereals too.
I would call first to check the price and be sure they have it. They may also have baby applesuace.
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PostSubject: Re: 2 squeakers that need help   Mon Aug 30, 2010 7:40 pm

Hey Guys,

Just wanted to update the status. I did hand feed the birds last night and also used spartix. I was checking them this morning, one bird looked fine, its crop was empty but the other bird's crop was not completely empty. It had atleast 50% his food in it's crop since last night. I am very much worried about this. Also compare to the other bird, this bird seems less active, less alert and dull. I am very worried about whats happening Very sad Also the medicine might be sitting along with the food in the crop Very sad

I have massaged it's crop a few times and I have again placed them on a hot water bag. I do not want to loose any of them. Any idea on why the crop is not getting emptied and what could be done?
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PostSubject: Re: 2 squeakers that need help   Mon Aug 30, 2010 7:44 pm

Matilda wrote:
Dev...do the peas have any kind of shell on them? If so, you might try removing it.

I don't know if you have grocery stores the way we do in the US or if there is any kind of prepared food for human babies. Here, we can buy powdered rice cereal that mixed with warm water, one can use to feed pigeons. When my pigeon rescuing days began, there was no such thing as a prepared hand feeding formula just for birds and so I learned to improvise. Another thing you might try is cooked until they are soft,carrots.

The peas has a shell on it, though it becomes very soft after being soaked, I do remove them most of them. I will make sure to remove it completely from next time.

Matilda wrote:
Dev...I don't know how far it is from your place, but apparently you can buy Rice Cereal for babies at Hyderabad. It's on Road no 2 Banjara Hills and shop's name is Q-Mart. It's near food world. They keep Gerber cereals too.
I would call first to check the price and be sure they have it. They may also have baby applesuace.

Thanks for this info. I should be able to find the Rice cereal in Bangalore, I will go around in the afternoon and find this out. And yeah Hyderabad is far from my place Smile around 700KMs.
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PostSubject: Re: 2 squeakers that need help   Mon Aug 30, 2010 7:53 pm

spdevanand wrote:
Matilda wrote:
Dev...do the peas have any kind of shell on them? If so, you might try removing it.

I don't know if you have grocery stores the way we do in the US or if there is any kind of prepared food for human babies. Here, we can buy powdered rice cereal that mixed with warm water, one can use to feed pigeons. When my pigeon rescuing days began, there was no such thing as a prepared hand feeding formula just for birds and so I learned to improvise. Another thing you might try is cooked until they are soft,carrots.

The peas has a shell on it, though it becomes very soft after being soaked, I do remove them most of them. I will make sure to remove it completely from next time.

Matilda wrote:
Dev...I don't know how far it is from your place, but apparently you can buy Rice Cereal for babies at Hyderabad. It's on Road no 2 Banjara Hills and shop's name is Q-Mart. It's near food world. They keep Gerber cereals too.
I would call first to check the price and be sure they have it. They may also have baby applesuace.

Thanks for this info. I should be able to find the Rice cereal in Bangalore, I will go around in the afternoon and find this out. And yeah Hyderabad is far from my place Smile around 700KMs.

Holy Sheep!! ... Shock ...glad you have a sense of humor!
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PostSubject: Re: 2 squeakers that need help   Mon Aug 30, 2010 8:07 pm

Matilda wrote:

Holy Sheep!! ... Shock ...glad you have a sense of humor!

Happy

Also any idea on why the crop is not getting emptied? I am very much worried about that Charis Very sad
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PostSubject: Re: 2 squeakers that need help   Mon Aug 30, 2010 8:51 pm

Fancyfeathers wrote:
Matilda wrote:
Priya...
* I wouldn't put the tea tree oil on these babies. I has been toxic to some birds and these birds in the weakened condition...it could do them in.

** Once they have some food in them, they should be treated for canker as canker and pox seem to go hand in hand...probably because the pox weakens the immune system thus giving canker the go a head to take over too.

They need food but it's critical they be thoroughly warmed and hydrated first. I usually give 5 ccs warmed hydrating solution and once it's placed out of the crop, give 5ccs more and so on...

* I didn't realize that either. Serious EEK!! Any info about the toxicity?

** I missed this.
Perhaps that is canker on the pox that I was wondering about. Hmmm





Here is only one example on the info. of Tea tree oils toxicity. There are many others. I sure would not use it on my birds.



Safety First!

Parrots are just like having a two-year old around; with some additional concerns as far as toxicities are concerned. Their respiratory systems are far more sensitive than our own; and what we can tolerate, can kill them.

Below are tips to keep your pet birds safe:

1. Windows: Make sure that all your windows have screens and that they are intact. Birds can escape through open windows or doors. They do like to " enlarge" holes in screens through which they will be able to escape. Therefore, check frequently to make sure that the screens are still intact.

2. Electrical Wires: As mentioned above, electric wires should be tucked away. Parrots love to chew on them. Electricity poses a particular hazard.

3. Aroma Therapy Scented candles, spray or plug air fresheners: I wouldn't use any of them if I didn't have any pets. They may pose a particular risk to our birds, but sufficient exposure to us and the risk of cancer or other immunodeficiency diseases cannot be dismissed. Artificial scents of any kind should be avoided. I am using Essential oils (aroma therapy) and would never go back to the artificial scents. I choose aromas, like lemon oil for a refreshing scent. Tea Tree oil will disinfect the air -- safely. I love the scent of Patchouli or Peppermint Oil. You can buy little tea candles with a little bowl above the candles - called diffuser lamps - to warm up the oil when lit. I chose one that is pretty deep so that my birds can't get to the fluids. WARNING: even though I have been using certain Essential oils around my birds with no ill-effects, some Essential oils may be toxic to birds. Discuss with your vet. Please note that tea tree oil is toxic to all pets (birds, cats, dogs, etc.)

http://www.avianweb.com/birdproofingyourhome.html
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PostSubject: Re: 2 squeakers that need help   Mon Aug 30, 2010 8:53 pm

Dev,
From the pictures you posted, is it bird #2 that is having an issue with the crop and appearing less active/alert than the other?

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Cindy

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PostSubject: Re: 2 squeakers that need help   Mon Aug 30, 2010 8:57 pm

Appreciate the info, Jay. Very interesting.
I've never used the stuff, so didn't know much about it.

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Cindy

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spdevanand
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PostSubject: Re: 2 squeakers that need help   Mon Aug 30, 2010 9:05 pm

Thank you very much Jay for sharing the info with us.

Cindy,

You are right, the second bird is the one who is having issue. We have named the first bird as "Paarthu" and the second one as "Anathu" Smile I just feed little amount of warm water to Anathu.

Dev.
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PostSubject: Re: 2 squeakers that need help   Mon Aug 30, 2010 9:13 pm

Thanks for the clarification, Dev.
My thought is that Anathu also has a pretty good case of internal canker.
The yellow on the suspected pox in an good indication there is underlying canker going on, to me anyway.

Bless you for doing all that you can. Pigeon angel
My thoughts and prayers are with you and those adorable babies.


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PostSubject: Re: 2 squeakers that need help   Mon Aug 30, 2010 9:17 pm

Thanks Cindy. I have already given a dose of Spatrix for them, last night. The worse thing is, I do not even know if the medicine has gone in for this bird. I hope the bird can manage it. Just praying for them.

Will keep you guys updated. today is my last exam, i should have more time to spend with birds from today.
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