Oh man, Sammy's at it again...

Teresa wrote:

Thank you so much, Petra!

Sammy is much better now. Her treatment (alternating the calcium supplement with Baytril daily) will be over after 10 days, and after that I'm thinking of giving her the calcium gluconate once a week, and then twice on the week she lays the next egg. Does that seem okay?

Teresa, I am so glad that Sammy is better. I know how this can be nervewracking.
For Pina I do the following: she gets herbal pellets twice a week and I distribute 2 drops of calcivet directly on 10 pellets and handfeed this to her twice a week. Rudi gets the same but only 7-8 pellets and only once a week.

Additionally they can eat grit, egg shell, parrot sand whenever they want to.

The vet prescribed 0.07ml (I round it up to 2 drops) a day, so this one must be more concentrated than the Calcivet.
Thanks for the dosage, I'll make a note of it!

I hope Sammy is continuing to improve, Teresa.

Sammy gave me a fright again yesterday.
Late afternoon she started stumbling when walking and just wanted to lie down -- this on what should have been her first med-free day after a 10-day course of liquid calcium and Baytril every day...
So I gave her a double dose of calcium, and vitamin D3, warmed up her nest and put her in it. At first she was shaking a bit and breathing rapidly, then suddenly out popped an egg, and after that she was soon much better.
I keep checking in on her and she's almost back to normal, but she's stargazing a lot. Today she had two doses of calcium again. And she also pecked at and ate a good part of the shell of the egg she had laid.
Second egg due tomorrow, so I think it's double calcium again tomorrow.

Would she stop laying so frequently if some of the time I put up a partition between her and Pippin, so they could see each other but not be in contact? Something tells me that it wouldn't work, but...
I don't want to separate them, but it freaks me that she lays so often, abandons the eggs, and then lays again, making herself sick in the process.

I'm glad Sammy is OK.
I can only imagine the fright you must have endured.

A partition might work.
Yes, it sure would be better on her (and you) if she didn't lay so often.

Teresa - I so very much understand your concern. Was just the same with Pina - each time she was going to lay eggs she started stargazing, was totally beside herself and had one relapse after another. Then abandoned her eggs after only a few days. I was really desperating. You know how long she was sick!!! But this all disappeared completely. So please don't loose hope!!!

I wonder why Sammy is abandoning her eggs all the time. Maybe its because her nest is too open, too obvious for disturbance. Could you possibly put her cage/nest in a place where she and Pippin could hide from your view? Maybe a piece of cloth would help.

I gave Pina 3 different choices - one cardboard box with nest under a chair that is packed full of stuff and never moved - it's in the dark and the pijjies can really hide there, another possibility under my working table - totally dark as well and hidden from view because I put a large cardboard around it and the box on my closet which she and Rudi like most. They are hidden there too. Also Rudi and Pina are completely free in the appartment besides during the night. Either Pina is sitting on eggs and when not she is packed into her former hospital box and Rudi in his. Just an idea....

pigeonwriter wrote:

Teresa - I so very much understand your concern. Was just the same with Pina - each time she was going to lay eggs she started stargazing, was totally beside herself and had one relapse after another. Then abandoned her eggs after only a few days. I was really desperating. You know how long she was sick!!! But this all disappeared completely. So please don't loose hope!!!

I wonder why Sammy is abandoning her eggs all the time. Maybe its because her nest is too open, too obvious for disturbance. Could you possibly put her cage/nest in a place where she and Pippin could hide from your view? Maybe a piece of cloth would help.

I gave Pina 3 different choices - one cardboard box with nest under a chair that is packed full of stuff and never moved - it's in the dark and the pijjies can really hide there, another possibility under my working table - totally dark as well and hidden from view because I put a large cardboard around it and the box on my closet which she and Rudi like most. They are hidden there too. Also Rudi and Pina are completely free in the appartment besides during the night. Either Pina is sitting on eggs and when not she is packed into her former hospital box and Rudi in his. Just an idea....

I might try something to act as a curtain... maybe that would help. Their nest is quite private, but it does have an opening facing the front of the cage. They like to see the view from there, but maybe when there are eggs they need more privacy.
Neither Sammy nor Pippin have much of an idea what to do with eggs. Pippin actually sat on hers for 2 days (that was a record) but then abandoned them. But at least Pippin doesn't lay constantly, nor such ENORMOUS eggs as Sammy.

Sammy is late laying her second egg, but she's not egg bound. In any case she's been having double calcium and her nest is heated, and with a damp towel over the top. At the moment she's a picture of cosiness.

Do you think Sammy will only be laying 1 egg, Teresa?

AZWhitefeather wrote:

Do you think Sammy will only be laying 1 egg, Teresa?

It's looking possible, as she hasn't laid another yet. But she's been very bright and alert today, stargazing a lot less, and pecking at me when I gave her the calcium.

I hope laying only one egg is the case.
I'm glad she's as active as she is. That's a good sign.

Please keep us posted.

Sammy is stable, but still stargazing a bit.
All her life's been a struggle, first with the 7 months she spent unable to feed herself, and afterwards with the recurrence of the symptoms now and again, and recently the hypocalcemia as well.
If it wasn't for her mate's dedication, her quality of life would be very poor indeed.

A mate can make all the difference in the world sometimes.


Special thoughts and best wishes continue for Sammy.

It is just heartbreaking Teresa when we see that our feathered little angels are suffering. Sending you lots of energy to pull this through and many many healing wishes for little Sammy.
Please don't give up on hoping for a miracle...

I know why I am spoiling Pina to no end....

pigeonwriter wrote:

It is just heartbreaking Teresa when we see that our feathered little angels are suffering. Sending you lots of energy to pull this through and many many healing wishes for little Sammy.
Please don't give up on hoping for a miracle...

I know why I am spoiling Pina to no end....

Thank you for your good wishes!

Sammy laid her second egg today -- several days after the first! She's okay, though stargazing quite a bit. She got her calcium, pecked me, then settled down on her egg.

What a precious little girl.

I find it always so funny when they sit like this - all completely satisfied with their bellies over their pants....

pigeonwriter wrote:

I find it always so funny when they sit like this - all completely satisfied with their bellies over their pants....

I love it when my guys do that.
It must be very comfortable for them, because they sure do it alot.

pigeonwriter wrote:

Teresa, Malcolm confirmed that you can order it in Portugal:

http://www.ornicare.com/

when you use this website (I have tried it and it works) you need to find the link "online store" -
it's on the left sidebar - then you need to click on Bird Care Company under "Manufacturers" - there you can find the liquid Calcivet in various sizes.

I've run out of the Calcivet I got from my vet, so I decided to order online, to make sure to always have some in the house.
Well... what can I say... it's been an adventure!

I've ordered it anyway, complete with extortionate extras.
And then I sent Malcolm, director of Birdcare Co, this email detailing the goings-on:

Dear Malcolm,

A friend in Germany recommended Calcivet as a supplement for my pigeons, but it's been hard work ordering it online...

I started off with Ornicare, seeing as it is here in Portugal. But the site doesn't look like it's been updated in years, and doesn't offer a shred of information about the products -- I had to keep the Birdcare Co page open at the same time to read the descriptions. I was about to confirm the order, paying by bank transfer, when I noticed they didn't accept payments in euros or pounds sterling, only dollars; and the VAT rate they quoted me has been superceded a long time ago. No way was I going to provide my bank details under such circumstances...

So I decided to order directly from Birdcare Co, as my friend does. Then I noticed that the postal rates for Portugal were much higher than for France, etc. That surprised me, because posting from Portugal the rate is the same for all EU countries. It would mean that the postage would cost me over 5 times more than the purchase...

So I went back to Ornicare and ordered the Calcivet cash on delivery. It's more expensive, but at least I don't have to fork out until I see the product.

I hope this works -- fingers crossed!

Best wishes,

Teresa

And now, if you'll excuse me, I need a stiff drink... especially because I still need Coxi Med, and two attempts to order from Jedd's failed redundantly...

What an ordeal you are going through, Teresa.
Please keep us posted on how things go.

Things are looking up!

Got a very helpful email from Malcolm, followed by another from their rep in Portugal, Ornicare. The Calcivet is on its way!

I've also emailed Jedds for guidance on how to avoid the error messages I kept getting. Apparently it happens quite a lot, even to members in the US, but I hope it can be solved.

Also, in my searches I came across a product made from grapefruit seeds and pulp which is supposed to be excellent against protozoan infections, and so gentle that it can be given to baby pigeons and immunosuppressed ones. It's called Berimax and they will ship to Portugal:

Quote :

Hi Teresa
Yes, we can send to Portugal. Actually we send form time to time to fanciers in Portugal already.
Are you a veterinarian as well ?
Anyway, you can just pay with paypal at this site http://berimax.synthasite.com/
and you will find some more information about Berimax at the sites www.berimax.co.uk and www.berimax.us

We sell a lot of Berimax to USA and itwill be presented at the US Racing Pigeon Convention in Houston, Texas now in July.

We can ship any time any where...

Let me hear your experience or any questions you may have.

Kind regards

Nils Reither, DVM

Can't wait to try it on Hercules, George and Sammy -- plus any rescues that are very frail.

I'll keep you posted.