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 Pigeon suddenly cannot fly, sick

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pigie



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PostSubject: Pigeon suddenly cannot fly, sick   Tue Apr 19, 2011 4:39 pm

My pigeon that I had for several years, used to lay eggs, regularly, and I substituted eggs for wooden. Two days ago, she laid her last egg (four days ago, she laid first of the batch), and suddenly lost ability to fly. The eggs look normal, as usual. Her food was at 6 feet high, but her nest was on the floor. So, she always flew to her food. Today, she kept looking up there where the food is, tried to fly, but could not. She looked as if possibly in pain after the attempt, and she did not put her wings back as usual - she had her wings a bit open and drooped for a while after attempt to fly. That's why I presumed she was in pain. She has grit, egg shells. Her food is black sun flower seeds that she loves, wheat, other grains, etc. Poop looks watery, but colors are usual: green and white. When I set the food on the floor, she started to eat and ate almost the usual amount (substantial). But she cannot fly. The pigeon is no more than 5 years old. One day before she laid her first egg (about 6 days ago) she vomited all her food and grit.
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Teresa
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PostSubject: Re: Pigeon suddenly cannot fly, sick   Tue Apr 19, 2011 7:29 pm

I'm so sorry to hear your hen is sick, Peter.

If she spends a lot of time indoors, it's very likely she won't be able to absorb the calcium in her grit and shells, and she will need a supplement of calcium+vitamin D3 -- the ones that are made for humans are fine.
Lack of calcium in laying hens can certainly prevent them from being able to fly, eventually being also unable to walk or stand, and it's very painful.
One of my hens doesn't metabolise calcium properly, and at egg laying times she always needs to take calcium gluconate (easier to absorb than calcium carbonate) and vitamin D3.

The vomiting is very worrying, and without any other symptoms, I would suspect either a fungal infection (check to see if her breath smells sour or cheesy), or else canker causing an obstruction in the crop (try to feel for any lumps in her aesophagus or crop, also if there are any visible yellow nodules in her beak or throat). Has she vomited again? What about her weight, has she lost some?

Is there any chance at all you could take her to a vet? They would be able to do proper tests to determine what's wrong with her. From this distance, the best I can do is offer tentative suggestions...

I hope she gets better real soon. Please keep us posted.


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pigie



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PostSubject: lost ability to fly   Tue Apr 19, 2011 9:08 pm

Teresa wrote:
I'm so sorry to hear your hen is sick, Peter.

If she spends a lot of time indoors, it's very likely she won't be able to absorb the calcium in her grit and shells, and she will need a supplement of calcium+vitamin D3 -- the ones that are made for humans are fine.
Lack of calcium in laying hens can certainly prevent them from being able to fly, eventually being also unable to walk or stand, and it's very painful.
One of my hens doesn't metabolise calcium properly, and at egg laying times she always needs to take calcium gluconate (easier to absorb than calcium carbonate) and vitamin D3.

The vomiting is very worrying, and without any other symptoms, I would suspect either a fungal infection (check to see if her breath smells sour or cheesy), or else canker causing an obstruction in the crop (try to feel for any lumps in her aesophagus or crop, also if there are any visible yellow nodules in her beak or throat). Has she vomited again? What about her weight, has she lost some?

Is there any chance at all you could take her to a vet? They would be able to do proper tests to determine what's wrong with her. From this distance, the best I can do is offer tentative suggestions...
I hope she gets better real soon. Please keep us posted.

For the last 2 years, she lived only indoors.
Pigeons.biz thinks the same thing about my case: lack of calcium and vitamin D, "egg laying paralysis". It is very reassuring when two independent pigeon sites come to the same diagnosis. So, I started her on multi-vitamins with calcium. I realized that while she lived with me all these years, I have never gave her vitamins. I presumed she got vitamins from grains: wheat, sun flower seeds, etc. But she always had plenty of calcium: she eats egg shells that I crush for her.
Weight: she did not loose any weight. Vomiting: she did not vomit again.
As of "taking her to a vet", I am not a millionaire. I cannot pay vet. If I get sick, or she gets sick, we just die if we cannot get well on our own. That is the realistic world we (my pigeon and I) live in.
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NiteOwl
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PostSubject: Re: Pigeon suddenly cannot fly, sick   Wed Apr 20, 2011 10:25 pm

Yes, you can use the kind for people. That would be:

oyster shell calcium 250mg with vitamin D, 125 IU. You can give her 1/4 pill tonight and in the morning, again tomorrow night and for three days to follow. After that, 1/4 pill a day for 2 more days. Later on, it would be good to buy a calcium supplement, with vitamin D3, specifically for birds.
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pigie



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PostSubject: Looks like she is recovering   Thu Apr 21, 2011 9:36 am

She flew on her regular feeder, which is 6 ft high above the ground, despite the fact that her food was set on the floor. So, she is regaining her ability to fly after one day of vitamin D3 and calcium treatment. Thank you all for your help and good information.
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NiteOwl
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PostSubject: Re: Pigeon suddenly cannot fly, sick   Thu Apr 21, 2011 10:19 am

Thanks for the update. Good that she is doing better. I would start giving her bird vitamins with Vit D3 on a regular basis. When pigeons or any other bird is living in the wild, they can find the things they need to be healthy, but when in captivity, they can't do that. So we need to supply those things. Vitamins are an important part of a birds diet.
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AZWhitefeather
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PostSubject: Re: Pigeon suddenly cannot fly, sick   Thu Apr 21, 2011 10:42 am

Appreciate the update, Peter. Smile
I'm glad to hear your little pij is doing better.

Please keep us posted on how things are coming along.

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Keeping us safe from the predators that share the sky.

If we become ill or injured in any way,
Please lead us to safety where we are welcome to stay.
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NiteOwl
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PostSubject: Re: Pigeon suddenly cannot fly, sick   Thu Apr 21, 2011 11:44 am

Here's an interesting link on Vit. D3

http://www.ladygouldianfinch.com/features_vitamind.mgi
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pigie



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PostSubject: Re: Pigeon suddenly cannot fly, sick   Thu Apr 21, 2011 2:33 pm

NiteOwl wrote:
Here's an interesting link on Vit. D3
http://www.ladygouldianfinch.com/features_vitamind.mgi

Wow! You posted MOST IMPORTANT information, ever, that I ever heard about birds. That birds need vitamin D3 and that vitamin D2 (for humans) is not usable for birds! And all these people tell me to give human vitamin D pills to my pigeon! What a bunch of crock! You single-handedly saved my friend (pigeon) from certain death! I would have continued to feed her crushed calcium pills with vitamin D2, designed for humans! You are true Jesus in the dark world of misinformation.
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pigie



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PostSubject: Smelly (stinky) droppings   Sun May 08, 2011 9:01 am

I discovered why droppings were stinky (foul smelling). Before, I thought that it was due to pigeon's sitting on eggs, 24 hrs per day. Since Vitamin D deficiency was diagnosed by this forum and treated successfully, the stench of droppings disappeared despite the fact that she still sits on her eggs 24 hours per day.
So, add this to more general topics on this board: to illnesses, diseases, etc.
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Teresa
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PostSubject: Re: Pigeon suddenly cannot fly, sick   Sun May 08, 2011 8:11 pm

Thank you for the update, Pigie.
I'm very happy to hear that your hen is better and that her poops have improved as a result of taking the vitamin D3. Great job
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PostSubject: Re: Pigeon suddenly cannot fly, sick   Sun May 08, 2011 9:40 pm

Appreciate the update, Peter. Thanks
I'm glad things are going well.

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Cindy

A Pigeon's Prayer
Please watch over us while we fly,
Keeping us safe from the predators that share the sky.

If we become ill or injured in any way,
Please lead us to safety where we are welcome to stay.
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pigie



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PostSubject: Pigeons, sunlight, and vitamin D3   Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:14 pm

Changed my statement about Vitamin D, after Wise Owl corrected me.


Last edited by pigie on Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:45 am; edited 1 time in total
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Teresa
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PostSubject: Re: Pigeon suddenly cannot fly, sick   Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:37 pm

pigie wrote:
1. Some people say that pigeons need "sunlight on their feathers", which is incorrect. Feathers are dead tissue, like hair or nails. Pigeons (or birds) need sunlight on their SKIN in order to produce vitamin D from sunshine. Pigeons can get sunlight on their skin which is around their eyes and on their feet.
2. It is ULTRAVIOLET light, which is part of sunlight, that produces vitamin D in birds (and people) when UltraViolet light comes in contact with SKIN (not feathers). Regular glass filters ultraviolet light (stops it) and if pigeon (or a bird) sits in front of a window with most powerful sunlight outside, the bird will NOT get any benefit of sunlight because the window glass stops (kills, filters out) the ultraviolet part of sunlight.
Thus, a window must be made out of material that passes the ultraviolet light. Or, ultra-violet lamp can be used for birds to sit under. Such ultra-violet lamps (bulbs) are sold at the pet stores or online.

I totally agree with you!
I think that when people say pigeons need sunlight on their feathers it's just an expression, and they mean the pigeon must be exposed to direct incident sunlight, as opposed to light coming through the window, which filters out the UV.
Many of our members who have indoor pigeons use UV light bulbs. Others have an extension to their lofts with mesh panels on the roof and walls, and where they can sunbathe.
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NiteOwl
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PostSubject: Re: Pigeon suddenly cannot fly, sick   Mon Mar 26, 2012 5:55 pm

Actually, birds do also get vitamin D3 through their feathers. This is just one article, but I have read others that state the same thing. If you do some reading on a birds need for vitamin D3, and how they get it, you will find other articles that agree with this one.


Vitamin D Sick Bird Breakthrough
S o u t h Q u e e n s l a n d B u d g e r i g a r A s s o c i a t i o n I n c Page 3 of 6
In humans, ultraviolet B light (which is part of normal sunlight) acts on oil on
your skin and turns it into Vitamin D3, which is then re-absorbed. In budgies oil is
taken from the preen gland at the base of the tail during preening and is spread
all over the feathers. This is turned into Vitamin D3 by sunlight and the birds
consume it later on during further preening. This is essential for the budgies'
health.

http://www.sqbba.com/article_by_don_burke.pdf
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pigie



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PostSubject: Pigeons, sunlight, and vitamin D3   Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:44 am

Wow, Wise Owl! You are always ahead of me! Just one little scientific step. Just a tiny, tiny, tiny bit. Well, then I take back my incorrect statement that feathers do not play role in Vitamin D assimilation in birds. I spoke little incorrectly because of what I read - about how Vitamin D enters body of birds. But the stuff about how birds consume Vit D from their feathers during preening - new to me. But it sounds very plausible - because they preen themselves all the time! Now I will spread your gospel, too.
It is nice to have such Wise Owl watching our discussions.



NiteOwl wrote:
Actually, birds do also get vitamin D3 through their feathers. This is just one article, but I have read others that state the same thing. If you do some reading on a birds need for vitamin D3, and how they get it, you will find other articles that agree with this one.


Vitamin D Sick Bird Breakthrough
S o u t h Q u e e n s l a n d B u d g e r i g a r A s s o c i a t i o n I n c Page 3 of 6
In humans, ultraviolet B light (which is part of normal sunlight) acts on oil on
your skin and turns it into Vitamin D3, which is then re-absorbed. In budgies oil is
taken from the preen gland at the base of the tail during preening and is spread
all over the feathers. This is turned into Vitamin D3 by sunlight and the birds
consume it later on during further preening. This is essential for the budgies'
health.

http://www.sqbba.com/article_by_don_burke.pdf
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NiteOwl
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PostSubject: Re: Pigeon suddenly cannot fly, sick   Tue Mar 27, 2012 4:46 pm

They can get it both ways.
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Teresa
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PostSubject: Re: Pigeon suddenly cannot fly, sick   Wed Mar 28, 2012 1:00 pm

Brilliant information! Thank you so much, Jay, and thank you for the link too! Thank You
I had no idea about the role of the preen gland and the feathers in the production of vitamin D3, or how the bird ingested it during preening, and found it fascinating! Great job
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PostSubject: Re: Pigeon suddenly cannot fly, sick   Fri May 25, 2012 5:21 pm

pigeon 1 My pet dove can still fly, but one of his wings is drooping. Other than that, he is normal. What does it mean? confused
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PostSubject: Re: Pigeon suddenly cannot fly, sick   Tue May 29, 2012 2:34 pm

Hi Cookiedove,

I remember you saying that your dove flew all round the house... did he have a droopy wing then already? If not, then he's either injured himself in the meanwhile or he may have developed Salmonella, which would cause a lump on the affected wing. That kind of lump is on the top and the underside of the wing.
You can't usually see it, but you can feel it.
Most likely he injured himself. When did it start, and could you post a picture?
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PostSubject: Droopy Wing- Injury or Illness?   Sun Jun 03, 2012 8:14 pm

pigeon 1 My dove has a droopy wing and occasional diarrhea. His wing joints don't look swollen and he flies perfectly well. He doesn't seem to be in any pain(because he can still perform his...cough...mating ritual). How do you post pictures? Whenever I press upload, the browse pictures screen comes back again.
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Teresa
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PostSubject: Re: Pigeon suddenly cannot fly, sick   Sat Jun 09, 2012 7:54 am

These are the site's standard instructions on how to post pictures from your computer:

http://www.pigeonangels.com/t709-instructions-for-posting-pictures

But if you already host your pictures in a photo site, you should be able to just copy the image file and paste into the message you're writing. It works fine with Photobbucket.

Let me know if that works. Fingers crossed
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PostSubject: Wing Pics   Sun Jun 10, 2012 12:46 pm

pigeon 1 Here's some pictures. Again, he is still behaving normally. And normal for him is flying around the house(with human supervision) and eating at regular intervals. He preens himself most of the day. Never shows much interest in colorful toys, but he'd rather tear apart paper. His poop isn't watery and doesn't have worms in it. ( no blood either) Note: He has plucked out some of the feathers in the drooping wing which we think shows discomfort. The only bumps I found were some type of wing joint. Also, there's a blurred picture of him flying. Does it help if you know what species of dove he is? Mourning Dove(Zenaida Macroura)




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PostSubject: Re: Pigeon suddenly cannot fly, sick   Sat Jun 30, 2012 9:47 pm

PMed you! Smile
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