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 About my pigeon who missed his canker medication

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Christina



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PostSubject: About my pigeon who missed his canker medication   Tue May 03, 2011 10:02 am

Hello again to you all, how are you all going? :-) This is Christina again here, the girl whos pigeon had missed his canker medication. I had to start a new thread as it wouldn't accept any more replies on th eother thread we were all talking on.

Well, today I took my beautiful pigeon back to the avain vet and then to the bird boarding house, where he is going to stay for one week. They are going to give him all his medications properly and on time and perfectly. they are going to feed him and give him water and he is in a temperature controlled room just for birds.

The avain vet kind of yelled at me for not giving the medication regularly and I got sad and I told him I really tried but I couldn't catch my pigeon. Then the avain vet took him to another room and cleaned the canker stuff, and then he filled up all my 3 medicine bottles again with the same 3 medicines he was on before, and I took my pigeon straight to the bird boarding house

The staff at the bird boarding house only look after birds, not any other animals, and they are really experienced. They are really nice, and kind. My only worry is that it was so loud in there. They put my bird in a big cage and I sat with him while he settled in. But there are bird cages on the whole 4 sides of the room, and they were mostly colourful parrots and smaller birds that looked like parrots only smaller, and cockatiels and some other small colorful birds, and all the other birds were sqwawking loudly and making bird noises, I felt like I was in that movie called Jungle Book

It was so loud that it was annoying to me. I am worried that the noise will make my pigeon upset, or stress him out, or be bad for him. What do you all think? She put my pigeon in a cage on the bottom (floor level) so he won't be intimidated by the other birds she said. But I am worried that all the loud bird noises will annoy him- what do you all think?

She put my pigeon near a special temperature controlled heater that is for birds as she said he has to keep warm she said

When I got home I burst into tears as I miss him already. I hope he doesn't think that I've abondoned him. I am missing him now and I am crying again now.

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NiteOwl
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PostSubject: Re: About my pigeon who missed his canker medication   Wed May 04, 2011 12:47 pm

I'm glad you caught him and got him to the bird place. None of this had to be so hard or so expensive, if you had just caged the bird and treated him. Now starting all over, it's costing you more, and he is also sicker. Since the bird place has a vet, then can't she/he tell if the bird is well again after the 7 days? He may need longer treatment than that, but you could just tell the first vet that you need more medicine if the bird still has canker. I don't necessarily think that you would have to bring him back there.

I know it's difficult for you to keep him caged, but remember, he's a bird, and he doesn't think in the same terms that we do.You can't let yourself worry about whether he is happy in the cage or not. You just need to get the meds into him and make him well again. Then, after he is again well, he can be released and resume his happy bird life. Getting him well is all that matters when he's so sick. It just isn't helpful to worry about whether he likes it or not. You can't let yourself think about that. I'm sure he'll get his meds now, and hopefully get better, so you did a good thing by bringing him to them. Please let us know how it goes.
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Teresa
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PostSubject: Re: About my pigeon who missed his canker medication   Wed May 04, 2011 6:42 pm

Hi Christina,

Well done on getting him to the vet and then to the boarding house! It certainly sounds like he will be well looked after. And I have to confess it's a huge relief to know that he made it so far!

Don't worry about the bird noises at the boarding house. He may find it a bit strange at first, but he will find comfort at being with other birds, even if he doesn't understand the language they speak! Laughing

It's natural that you miss him, but don't be sad because of that. Look at it this way: if your best friend was ill, would you take her to hospital, even though you wouldn't see her for a few days, or would you keep her by your side, without medication, so you wouldn't be parted from her? We both know the answer to that one! You did the right thing, and you should be proud of that, not sad.

For canker as advanced as your pigeon has, the duration of treatment is usually more than 10 days, so bear in mind what Jay said:
NiteOwl wrote:
Since the bird place has a vet, then can't she/he tell if the bird is well again after the 7 days? He may need longer treatment than that, but you could just tell the first vet that you need more medicine if the bird still has canker. I don't necessarily think that you would have to bring him back there.
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PostSubject: Re: About my pigeon who missed his canker medication   Wed May 04, 2011 11:31 pm

Christina wrote:
Hello again to you all, how are you all going? :-)
This is Christina again here, the girl whos pigeon had missed his canker medication.

I had to start a new thread as it wouldn't accept any more replies on th eother thread we were all talking on.

I'm not sure why your post wasn't accepted in your original thread, Christina.
You might want to give it another try as Teresa and I were able to post there.

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Christina



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PostSubject: Thanks heaps for that :-)   Thu May 05, 2011 10:20 am

Hello again, and thank you all so very much for your help, I really appreciate it a lot :-)

If it wasn't for you all telling me what to do, I would have thought that the first hit and miss days of medicine were enough, so thank yo so very much for helping me and by bird Thank You circling

Tomorrow I am going to ring the bird boarding place and ask how he is going. I will also ask if he can see the avain vet there. Does it matter what avain vet he sees? Like, am I better off taking him back to the first original avian vet he saw because she saw him first and did all the tests on him, and knows the whole story, or is the other avian vet just as good to take him to?

Can I ask the first avain vet to send all his results of everything to the second avian vet ? Or do they get angry of you do that?

Thanks heaps for your time, I do appreciate it a lot :-)

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Teresa
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PostSubject: Re: About my pigeon who missed his canker medication   Thu May 05, 2011 7:29 pm

As the pigeon is in the boarding house, it would be easier fot him to see the vet there, providing that vet is able to provide the same level of care as the other one.
But to be honest, I don't know it the first vet would send the paperwork to the second, and whether she would be angry, as I've never had to do that. Perhaps someone else will have an answer for you.
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Christina



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PostSubject: Thanks heas for that :-)   Fri May 06, 2011 6:56 am

Hello, and thanks heaps for that :-) I will ing tomorrow and ask them all all of my questions

One vet is an avian vet and the other vet is an avain vet who is also a bird specialst (apparantly there are not many of those around)

For canker, do you think either vet would be just as good as the other, or is canker a very complicated and hard thing?

Ps- if I get my bird seen by the second vet, will I have tp pay more because they have to do every single test on him again, from scratch, whereas the other vet I have already been to would just be a follow up appointment and therefore cheaper do you think?

Thanks heaps for your time I do appreciate it a lot
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NiteOwl
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PostSubject: Re: About my pigeon who missed his canker medication   Fri May 06, 2011 1:26 pm

Do you know what the first vet tested for? And what besides canker did he treat for? Canker can be treated by any avian vet. We treat our birds for canker. You just have to be sure you are giving the right med, and for the amount of time it takes to cure it. Sometimes one med will work better than another, but I normally have great results with Metronidazole (Flagyl). Normally one gets the meds and gives it to the bird themselves. If they know the bird has canker then they can treat for that. I don't remember, what else the first vet told you your bird had, if anything. Could you tell us what he said?
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Christina



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PostSubject: Hello again   Sat May 07, 2011 9:32 am

Hello again to you all, and thank you so much for all your help. I have good news and terrible news today. The good news is that I rang the bird boarding place today and they said that my pigeon is well and happy and is going to be fine and they are going tot take him to the avian vet, and they are going to ring the first avian vet and get all his history transferred to them, and then they are going to get any more medicine that he needs, and keep him there for another week and give him all his medication, and I will pay for all that, and then I will pick him up after that.

The bad news is that today I went outside to the backyard to get some fresh air and have a cup of tea, and I saw a pigeon who looks totally unwell. All the group of wild pigeons came who come every day, to eat, and they all looked healthy except one who looked sick. So I went closer to have a look and the whole left side of his face is like gone. I was so upset. Poor bird. The whole left side of his face is like one big lump and puffy and where his eye should be, the eye is gone and it is just puffy. I don't know what to do. All these pigeons are wild pigeons and that poor pigeons looks so sick. I already owe my Dad $600 so far for the pigeon who is getting treatment now. Now I am broke, but I want to help this wild bird. What should I do? Will I ring the wildlife animal rescue?

What is wrong with the poor bird? Does he have advanced canker or something? What does it mean? Does it mean the whole flock has it? The rest of the birds look healthy though. Can I put something in their water to get rid of it? How am I going to bring my pigeon home from the bird boarding place if another bird has it too?

He was still eating his food though, and he still flew away with the other pigeons

I am totally freaking out right now. My Dad says he is not going to give me any more money. I have a tummy ache. What is going on? What should I do?

Thanks heaps to you all for your help
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Teresa
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PostSubject: Re: About my pigeon who missed his canker medication   Sat May 07, 2011 10:00 am

It's very hard to tell what's wrong with the new pigeon without seeing him, and even then...
Have a look at this thread (+photos) about a young pigeon who had such bad canker on his face that his eye appeared to be missing: http://www.pigeonangels.com/t1780-squeaker-with-missing-eye?
In most cases however that kind of injury is due to predator attack or being shot.

Even if you had managed to catch him, I think you're going to need some help, considereing that your finances and your family's good will are already stretched to the limit. Phone your vet, the boarding house vet, or this one, who is a world authority on pigeons...

Melbourne Veterinary Clinic
Colin Walker, DVM
1 George St.Scoresby,
Victoria 3179, Australia
+61 3 9764 9000

... and ask them if there is a rehabber in your area who could treat him.

I'm sorry to say there may be several more cases of canker in your feral flock, as your pigeon was hanging round with them when he was infectious, and that will have endangered their lives and that of your own pigeon when he gets released. We mentioned that, when we insisted that he had to be caught and isolated. But for now, we can only take one step at a time. If you can find a rehabber, that would be great.

PS. You can medicate an entire flock for canker by using water-soluble Metronidazole in their drinking water. But if they are used to drinking somewhere else, which I presume is the case, they probably won't drink the medicated water (or not enough) and the treatment won't work.


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Christina



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PostSubject: thanks heaps   Sat May 07, 2011 10:32 am

Hello, and thanks heaps for your reply. I have actually rang that guy Colin Walker in the past and he told me that he doesnt treat feral pigeons, he reckons it is illegal to do so. Would you happen to know who else I can ring? I will definitely ring the vet and the bird boarding place.

I think that the wildlife rehab place may be able to come and get him and help him for free if I say he is wild. But they dont give him back to me, I think they release them into the wild when they are better

Thanks heaps for your help, I am so stressed out. No, it doesn't look like the photos on the thread you showed me. It actually looks like the whole side of his face has exploded outways, into a big lump and there is no eye there at all, where the eye should be it is just grey like the rest of the lump-if you didnt know you were looking at a face you wouldn't even know it was a face, you would think you were looking at a lump on a pigeons body or something as it is grey and there is no eye where the eye should be

I read somewhere that you can put canket medicine in the pigeons food in the morning so when the whole flock eats the food, they will get the medicine too. Have you ever heard of that?

When I bring my bird home from the boarding house, could he catch canker again? Can I get him vaccinated against it now that he is going to the vet again in a few days?

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NiteOwl
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PostSubject: Re: About my pigeon who missed his canker medication   Sat May 07, 2011 2:46 pm



Right now you cannot be sure of what is wrong with this new bird. He may have canker, or something else, although canker does spread rapidly among birds, that's why they need to be isolated for treatment. He could have Pox. Don't know. Pictures would be very helpful as it is hard to say without actually seeing the bird.
As far as treating the whole flock is concerned, you can treat them and hope for the best.
You can coat the seed sparsely with olive oil just enough to make stick with 20% powdered Metrondidazole at 2 teaspoons per every 2lbs of seed for 5 days.
Although you can't control the amount each bird gets, it's doing the best you can.
Glad things are looking better for your bird.
Dr. Colin Walker has treated feral pigeons, but the person bringing in the bird has to take responsibility for the bird and take it back home with them. They can't treat the bird and release it. That is illigal for them to do. You would just say that it was your pet.
Is this pigeon a flock of true feral pigeons, or are they some kind of native species? Such as a wood pigeon, crown victoria, or some other kind that has not been imported?

As far as rehabbers, it is pretty well known that if you bring a feral pigeon to a rehabber, they will euthanize it. They cannot release it back to the wild, so they will kill it. They probably won't tell you that, but that is what they will do. The exception would be native pigeons, like woody's and others that are native to your country.
Not sure if you can get the Metronidazole there, but if you can, definitely mix in the feed, not the water. Even the water soluble doesn't mix all that well in water. If you can only get it in pill form, then come back and let us know and we can guide you through that.
Where in Australia do you live? I'll ask my friend who is very good with resources to see if she can find a farm store in your area who might have the right medications.Sometimes Meds for chickens will work for pigeons too. By the way, you are looking for Metronidazole only, with nothing else mixed in. It is also known as Flagyl.
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Teresa
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PostSubject: Re: About my pigeon who missed his canker medication   Sat May 07, 2011 3:25 pm

Christina wrote:
Hello, and thanks heaps for your reply. I have actually rang that guy Colin Walker in the past and he told me that he doesnt treat feral pigeons, he reckons it is illegal to do so. Would you happen to know who else I can ring? I will definitely ring the vet and the bird boarding place.
What I suggested was asking if they knew of anyone who would take the pigeon and look after him, not ask the vets if they would treat him. I don't know anything about rehabbers in Australia, so if Jay says they euthanise the ones that can't be released, it must be so. But in other parts of the world there are many that don't, and that's the kind you need. My idea is that the vets may know those people.

Quote :
I think that the wildlife rehab place may be able to come and get him and help him for free if I say he is wild. But they dont give him back to me, I think they release them into the wild when they are better.
It's not as simple as that. The pigeon is either wild or it isn't, and they will know just by looking at it, as they are different species.

Quote :
Thanks heaps for your help, I am so stressed out. No, it doesn't look like the photos on the thread you showed me. It actually looks like the whole side of his face has exploded outways, into a big lump and there is no eye there at all, where the eye should be it is just grey like the rest of the lump-if you didnt know you were looking at a face you wouldn't even know it was a face, you would think you were looking at a lump on a pigeons body or something as it is grey and there is no eye where the eye should be
I read somewhere that you can put canket medicine in the pigeons food in the morning so when the whole flock eats the food, they will get the medicine too. Have you ever heard of that?
No, I hadn't, and I'm glad you asked that question, because Jay's advice sounds ace! I usually treat my birds individually, but when I'd asked about treating the whole flock, the advice I got was the same I passed on to you.

Quote :
When I bring my bird home from the boarding house, could he catch canker again? Can I get him vaccinated against it now that he is going to the vet again in a few days?
Yes, he can catch it again, but let's hope he doesn't. There is no vaccine against canker, as the infectious agent is a protozoan, not a virus.
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PostSubject: Re: About my pigeon who missed his canker medication   Sat May 07, 2011 9:18 pm

Teresa is right in saying that in many parts of the world, feral pigeons can be treated and released. But in Australia, it is illegal to release them to the wild. It was brought up very clearly on another forum when someone brought in a pigeon to a wild life rehabber, and they did take in the bird, but without telling the person that they would have to euthanize it. I'm sorry. Not everyone knows that about the Australian laws. They can make things pretty hard on those that are trying to help out an injured bird. Usually they just say that it is their pet, and that they have no plans to release the bird. I don't know what this new bird has, but unless he can be cured of whatever he has, and even then, if he doesn't have both eyes, then his life as a feral pigeon may not be long out there. With only one eye, he will be a much easier target for a predator. Are you sure that he just isn't so swollen that you can't see the eye? Could it possibly be under all the puffyness or whatever it is?
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PostSubject: Re: About my pigeon who missed his canker medication   Sun May 08, 2011 8:02 am

Christina,
Would you be able to get a picture of this ill/injured pigeon and post it?

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Please lead us to safety where we are welcome to stay.
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Christina



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PostSubject: Hello again   Sun May 08, 2011 8:16 am

Hello, how are you going? Yes, I will try to get a photo of him. I went out today to find him and he was not there at all. I am so sad, yesterday afternoon I saw another pigeon also who looked fluffy and unwell, but I couldn't find him today either

I will buy some powdered metronidazole and put it in the whole flocks food like youse told me to. Where do I buy it from? Should I ask the avian vet, or is there somewhere else where I can buy it cheaper? Im scared the vet will charge a big amount for a tiny little jar that won't be enough for the whole flock. But whatevcer it costs I will buy it anyway and do it

And as soon as I see the very sick one, I will ring a wildlife place to come and pick him up. I hope he comes back so I can help him

My life is falling apart, my Mum and my Dad and me have all got infections, and are on antibiotics, and now all my birds are getting sick, why is this happening I wonder

Thanks heaps for your time, I do appreciate it a lot
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Christina



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PostSubject: Hello again   Sun May 08, 2011 9:20 am

Hello again, and thank you all so very much for your help and advice, I appreciate it so very much, you all saved my first birds life or else I would have thought that 2 days at the vet was enough plus the hit and miss medications, but thanks to all of you he is now safe and getting the correct treatment and medication, so thanks heaps for that

I went back outside today and I could not find the sick bird that I saw yesterday, so I am going to keep looking for him daily. But I am so sad, I saw another different pigeon who looked tired and flufy and when the others flew off he didnt go with them, and then he went with them but slowly and tiredly. I have to get some powdered Metrondidazole like you said to, and put itin their food at once! Today was Sunday and I rang all the vets and bird vets but they were all closed, so I will ring the avain vet tomorrow morning and see if I can buy some

I live in Melbourne, Victoria, in Australia.

I hope they don't charge me a big amount for a tiny little jar that won't be enough for the whole flock. But if they do I will buy it anyway because I love the whole flock. They are just those normal pigeons that you see everywhere, they are not native pigeons as far as I know.

How big a jar or bottle of powdered Metrondidazole should I buy if I can find it, so that it will be enough to do the whole flock?

I am going to ring some wildlife places tomorrow morning to see if they can come and pick up a sick wild bird, but I will ask them if they can rehabilitate it and make it better and not put it down. Maybe if the sick fella with a sore eye has the powdered Metrondidazole in his food, maybe he will get better too? Do you think so? I prayed that God will help them all, and will help me to help them all

Thanks heaps to you all for your help, I really appreciate it a lot :-)



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Teresa
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PostSubject: Re: About my pigeon who missed his canker medication   Sun May 08, 2011 10:09 am

Christina wrote:
I am going to ring some wildlife places tomorrow morning to see if they can come and pick up a sick wild bird, but I will ask them if they can rehabilitate it and make it better and not put it down.

He isn't wild. You said he was a "normal" pigeon, i.e. a feral pigeon, not a wild native bird. And as soon as they see that, they will have to kill the pigeon, because that's the law there, even if they don't tell you that. Please note Jay's warning:

NiteOwl wrote:
As far as rehabbers, it is pretty well known that if you bring a feral pigeon to a rehabber, they will euthanize it. They cannot release it back to the wild, so they will kill it. They probably won't tell you that, but that is what they will do. The exception would be native pigeons, like woody's and others that are native to your country.

The Metronidazole shouldn't be very expensive, at least it isn't over here. The problem I have is finding it in any form apart from Flagyl, which is generally used to treat individual birds. Your vet should be able to inform you on that and get it for you. Remember that what you need is Metronidazole in any form but with nothing added.

I'm sure that would be a great help for all the birds in your flock, but as for the one with the puffy eye, the cause for that would have to be identified first before prescribing anything. He would need to be caught, examined and treated, and he will almost certainly need a home where he would be safe and have a good quality of life.

Wishing you and your family a complete and speedy recovery. Feeling great
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Christina



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PostSubject: Thanks heaps for that   Sun May 08, 2011 10:44 am

Hello, and thank you so very much for your help, I really appreciate it a lot :-)

I am going to pray again about the little one with a sore eye, I want to borow more money to take him to the avian vet too, but I know I can't borrow any more, as I've borrowed so much already to treat the first one. So I will pray so that God will find me the money somehow.


I prayed for the first bird too, when I was broke and had no way of getting to the vet which is far away, and then 10 minutes later my Dad woke up from his afternoon nap, and lent me the money, and my boyfriend was on the road that second that I rang him and he came and took us to the vet.

Then I prayed again when I was too broke to take him back to the avian vet, and even though every one was telling me to stop spending so much, my Dad lent me money again, and my wage came in that day too.

So I am going to pray again, as that always solves everything. I am sure that God will give me a solution

I will let you know how it all goes, and I will keep you all updated.

Thanks heaps, and have an excellent day :-)
T
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PostSubject: Re: About my pigeon who missed his canker medication   Sun May 08, 2011 1:28 pm

The Metronidazole can be either powder or pill form, if you are mixing it with the seed. The pills will have to be crushed, and it would take quite a few of them to make enough.
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Christina



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PostSubject: Thanks heaps for that    Mon May 09, 2011 7:44 am

Hello, and thanks heaps for that :-) I read online that in Australia you can only get it with a prescription from a vet, so this is what I did. I arranged that on Wednesday or Thursday (in 2 or 3 days) when all my pigeons medicine has been given to him, the very kind people at the bird boarding place are going to take my pigeon the the avian vet for me, as she works with them, and I will pay them for it. Then they will tell me that he will probably need more flagyl for another week and he will stay in there for another week.

Then I wil ask the avian vet if she can give me a script for some powdered flagyl so that I can treat the whole flock so that they won't have it, and so that my pigeon won't get it again when he comes home. How do that plan sound to all of you?

How ling will I have to treat the whole flock for if I put it in their food, so that it will be safe for my brid to come back home again and to not catch it again?

Thanks heaps for your help, I really appreciate it a lot :-)
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PostSubject: Re: About my pigeon who missed his canker medication   Mon May 09, 2011 2:49 pm

I would treat for a week.
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PostSubject: Re: About my pigeon who missed his canker medication   Mon May 09, 2011 3:48 pm

You can buy Metronidazolum at Jedd's and here is the link to it.

http://www.jedds.com/-strse-522/METRONIDAZOLUM/Detail.bok

I was told that Jedd's will ship meds to Australia.

It's for treating a feral flock, but they say to put it in the drinking water. I think you would have better luck putting it in the feed, as pigeons don't always drink when they come to feed. Sometimes they drink elsewhere. But they do come to eat.
2 Teaspoons to 2 pounds of seed. oil the seed lightly so that the medicine will adhere to the seed. Feed it to them for 5 days to one week.
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PostSubject: Re: About my pigeon who missed his canker medication   Mon May 09, 2011 6:26 pm

Sorry to poach this topic temporarily, but...

Jay, to treat my whole flock, would it be 1.8 teaspoons of ground 250mg Flagyl tablets for 2 lbs of feed?
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PostSubject: Re: About my pigeon who missed his canker medication   Mon May 09, 2011 7:46 pm

Teresa wrote:
Sorry to poach this topic temporarily, but...

Jay, to treat my whole flock, would it be 1.8 teaspoons of ground 250mg Flagyl tablets for 2 lbs of feed?



Teresa, I had to call Charis, and she said to reduce it to 1 3/4 teaspoons for 2 lbs of feed.



Sorry, I had to come back and retype it, as it should have been 1 and 3/4 teaspoons. When I entered it the first time, it came out to be 3/4 Teas. Don't know how that happened.


Last edited by NiteOwl on Tue May 10, 2011 1:11 pm; edited 2 times in total
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