Pigeon Angels


 
RegisterFAQSearchHomeLog in
At this time Pigeon Angels forum is in an archive status. For assistance please log into Pigeon Angels Facebook by clicking the following link. Thank You https://www.facebook.com/groups/176239232007/?hc_location=stream

Share | 
 

 Help needed - Pigeon not getting any better

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
AuthorMessage
StrikerThePurpleFrog



Posts : 29
Join date : 2011-08-20
Location : Melbourne

PostSubject: Help needed - Pigeon not getting any better    Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:56 am

Hi everyone,

I have posted about this girl, Angel, somewhere on this site a couple of months ago, she was brought to us emaciated and shellshockedat first appearance. As we progressed with feeding her we started to suspect PMV as there was some stargazing. The vet also wondered about salmonella and treated for both. She had very bad cankers which are now completely gone. It's 8 weeks since we took her in and there is no reason, according to the vet, that she shouldn't be feeding herself but she just doesn't seem to eat.

I had gotten her weight up to 340 grams but over the last few weeks she has lost a lot of it. I have been crop feeding her a lot less in order to encourage her to feed but still enough to maintain her. She's in a small enclosure with another healthy pigeon (wing injury but she's fully recovered now) who does eat and drink and has maintained her weight. I'd hoped Angel would learn by example to eat again but it seems not.

She still doesn't fly at all and when out of her enclosure she rolls around haphazardly rather than walk properly. It's very distressing to watch.

I'm worried that she's showing no signs of improvement. Am I just being impatient? What should I do? As of right now we're returning to crop feeding her all her food to get her weight back up. Beyond that I'm lost and a little worried.
Back to top Go down
http://www.newlifeforanimals.org.au
SplizzlahSavage

avatar

Posts : 115
Join date : 2011-11-30
Age : 30

PostSubject: O gosh   Fri Jan 27, 2012 2:42 am

Your Pigeon has many issues Pigeon Angels should assist you in, I just want to say one thing. It's about his walking, Pigeons need some sorta perch, I am now putting cousin type little blankets to help my Baby Pigeon's feet. He also is having walking issues , sometimes spaz's out. I have two various types of exercising, One is stand on a perch, the other is perch on my finger and bring the bird down he will flap his wings a bit. Just two exercises u may want to try if the bird appears to be able to do these thing. I suggest a simple low ground perch, Something with a inch to the ground,

And if you want another example of eating, U can tap ur finger on seed as if your pecking seeds, Every baby pigeon i have ever had always follows up and will try to eat. Other then that, The other issues I really hope you seek help successfully and good luck

And don't worry Pigeon Angels are great, These go right to your e-mail Ive got over the ammount of help i needed from this site, I even know when first admin shows up, Should be in about 3 - 4 hrs or less.

Really reminds me of what im going threw with "Homie Bird" it is distressing to watch the poor bird spaz out, I dont understand why he doing it, And I as well resorted back to crop feeding, Good luck again , God Speed .....God Speed

StrikerThePurpleFrog wrote:
Hi everyone,

I have posted about this girl, Angel, somewhere on this site a couple of months ago, she was brought to us emaciated and shellshockedat first appearance. As we progressed with feeding her we started to suspect PMV as there was some stargazing. The vet also wondered about salmonella and treated for both. She had very bad cankers which are now completely gone. It's 8 weeks since we took her in and there is no reason, according to the vet, that she shouldn't be feeding herself but she just doesn't seem to eat.

I had gotten her weight up to 340 grams but over the last few weeks she has lost a lot of it. I have been crop feeding her a lot less in order to encourage her to feed but still enough to maintain her. She's in a small enclosure with another healthy pigeon (wing injury but she's fully recovered now) who does eat and drink and has maintained her weight. I'd hoped Angel would learn by example to eat again but it seems not.

She still doesn't fly at all and when out of her enclosure she rolls around haphazardly rather than walk properly. It's very distressing to watch.

I'm worried that she's showing no signs of improvement. Am I just being impatient? What should I do? As of right now we're returning to crop feeding her all her food to get her weight back up. Beyond that I'm lost and a little worried.


Last edited by SplizzlahSavage on Fri Jan 27, 2012 5:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
http://HomeBird.BlogSpot.com
Matilda
Special Pigeon Angel
avatar

Posts : 9198
Join date : 2009-01-11
Location : Pacific Northwest of the United States of America

PostSubject: Re: Help needed - Pigeon not getting any better    Fri Jan 27, 2012 11:55 am

Striker...try this method to wean her. It usually works. The instructions are pre-writen to take the parts you need.


You can hand feed defrosted peas. Run some hot water over them until they are defrosted and slightly warmed. Put the bird on your lap and hold it next to your body.
If it helps because you are having a hard time handling the pigeon, you can wrap a towel around it or put it in the sleeve of a tee shirt, with the head out the wrist. This method confines the pigeon without hurting him and makes it easier to handle. Gently open the beak and pop a pea at the back of the mouth and over the throat. It gets easier and faster, with practice, for both you and the bird.
You will need to feed 30-50 per feeding [depending on the size of the pigeon] and every time the crop empties until you know the baby is eating on his own. After a couple of feedings, most squeakers get the hang of it, pick up the peas on their own and naturally transition into a seed diet.
This is a wonderful method for teaching babies to eat because they feel the whole food in their mouth and it’s soft and easy to pick up and hang on to.
The crop is located right below the throat and with food it fills up like a little balloon. The peas make the crop feel lumpy and squishy.
Back to top Go down
Matilda
Special Pigeon Angel
avatar

Posts : 9198
Join date : 2009-01-11
Location : Pacific Northwest of the United States of America

PostSubject: Re: Help needed - Pigeon not getting any better    Fri Jan 27, 2012 11:58 am

Chris...Homey may be deficient in calcium and vitamin d3. Go to a human pharmacy and get calcium supplement with vitamin d3...it must be d3 as d3 is the only d vitamin birds can precess. Buy one that has the lowest amounts of each and let me know what you get and I will share instructions with you.
Back to top Go down
SplizzlahSavage

avatar

Posts : 115
Join date : 2011-11-30
Age : 30

PostSubject: Re: Help needed - Pigeon not getting any better    Fri Jan 27, 2012 2:54 pm

Roger that, I was looking at one in a Pet Store. Im on my way there to see if it contains D3, If so ill buy that because it has over 30 - 40 vitamins by the look of it, Small, meduim, large bird doses. Im guessing mine is inbetween meduim and small, Sorry for spelling no time to waste, Ill be right back!

....OK IM BACK AND After I gave him vitamins He Is now back to eating on his own....

But back to the main subject, How is the Pigeon doing is he walking a little better?

Matilda wrote:
Chris...Homey may be deficient in calcium and vitamin d3. Go to a human pharmacy and get calcium supplement with vitamin d3...it must be d3 as d3 is the only d vitamin birds can precess. Buy one that has the lowest amounts of each and let me know what you get and I will share instructions with you.
Back to top Go down
http://HomeBird.BlogSpot.com
StrikerThePurpleFrog



Posts : 29
Join date : 2011-08-20
Location : Melbourne

PostSubject: Still no improvement   Sat Feb 11, 2012 9:41 pm

Thanks for the suggestions. I'm still seeing no change, she won't eat on her own. To clarify though, she is not a baby. She was an adult feeding herself normally before she got sick and was brought to me.

I've tried the peas and I've tried chickpeas, nowhere near as large an amount as you've suggested though. Just with twenty I find that she's thrown some up by the next morning.

Now there is another pigeon, also not a baby, who has been brought to me with the same symptoms (seems to be PMV) and she won't eat either.

I've already treated for worms and cankers in both. The first girl, Angel, did have severe cankers but that has completely cleared up now. The new girl, Stella, has no signs of canker.
Back to top Go down
http://www.newlifeforanimals.org.au
Matilda
Special Pigeon Angel
avatar

Posts : 9198
Join date : 2009-01-11
Location : Pacific Northwest of the United States of America

PostSubject: Re: Help needed - Pigeon not getting any better    Sat Feb 11, 2012 9:49 pm

The amount of peas I suggested, is the right amount to be feeding. Pigeons cannot process chick peas.
If she is vomiting the food, you can try giving a couple of drops of pepto bismo 10 minutes before you feed her.

The vomiting may be caused from a yeast infection and it wouldn't hurt to have her checked again.

Just because you don't see canker, in the throat, doesn't mean she doesn't have canker. It can just as easily attack internal organs. What does her poop look like? Canker can also cause vomiting.

Worms cause canker too. Not all wormers treat all the different kind of worms. What did nyou worm her with?
Back to top Go down
SplizzlahSavage

avatar

Posts : 115
Join date : 2011-11-30
Age : 30

PostSubject: ah man....   Sun Feb 12, 2012 12:26 am

Well Im sorry to hear that. If it means anything to you , And you done all you can for the bird. Spending lots of time with the Pigeon may give the Pigeon confidence to get over this sickness. If he has survived this long he has a very strong will to survive....
Back to top Go down
http://HomeBird.BlogSpot.com
StrikerThePurpleFrog



Posts : 29
Join date : 2011-08-20
Location : Melbourne

PostSubject: Re: Help needed - Pigeon not getting any better    Sun Feb 12, 2012 1:07 am

Quote :
Pigeons cannot process chick peas.
That suprised me, everywhere else I've looked has highly recommended chickpeas, especially for pigeons with PMV or similiar conditions.


The vet prescribed the worming tablets and the canker tablets and I don't know the name of them. The visible cankers are all gone and when we returned the vet he was thrilled with the progress and said they had been dealt with but could potentially return.

Her poo is looking normal.


Thanks SplizzlahSavage for your words. I enjoy hanging out with the birds but had kept my distance as they are essentially wild birds and I didn't want to freak them out too much. Perhaps I will spend a bit more time with them instead.
Back to top Go down
http://www.newlifeforanimals.org.au
Matilda
Special Pigeon Angel
avatar

Posts : 9198
Join date : 2009-01-11
Location : Pacific Northwest of the United States of America

PostSubject: Re: Help needed - Pigeon not getting any better    Sun Feb 12, 2012 12:10 pm

Dear StrikerThePurpleFog...

I should have been more specific about the chickpeas and worded my post differently. Because of the texture and size of chickpeas, they can cause a blockage, the pigeon can't process them. If this is the problem or part of it, I can't say. Based upon my experience, it is a suspicion.

Now I am not familiar with your story and I don't have the time to go back and read the history, I will offer some generally suggestions, based upon my experience, that may be of help to your pigeon rescue.

Pigeons can get easily depressed if kept alone and will sometimes stop eating. This varies from pigeon to pigeon as, like humans, each is different. When I have a single pigeon rescue, I always give the pigeon a mirror. It helps them feel secure, with their own kind close by. I use the kind of hand mirror one can buy in the hair care section of the store. Those mirror most often have a hole in the handle that makes it easier to wire to the cage so it won't fall.

Because pigeons are social and curious, I always keep my rescue pigeons in the center of the house hold activity. It gives them something to watch. Even when I leave the house, I leave the light on for the pigeons. If it's a dark day outside and dark inside, it may be more difficult for the pigeon to see the food. Pigeons won't eat in the dark.

I hope that helps some. I think a trip to the vet may be in order. I believe that all the things you treated for may return.

Good luck to both of you.
Back to top Go down
Teresa
Administrative Member
avatar

Posts : 5381
Join date : 2009-07-23
Location : Portugal

PostSubject: Re: Help needed - Pigeon not getting any better    Fri Feb 24, 2012 9:56 pm

How is Angel doing, is she trying to eat anything by herself?

I had a PMV survivor that had to be hand fed for a whole 7 months, but that's because she stargazed so much that she wasn't able to pick up the seed. But she didn't vomit. Almost all cases of vomiting that I've come across had been caused by a combination of canker and a yeast infection, just as Matilda said.

Being in Australia, you can get very good wormers and canker meds, so your vet's prescription must have been just what Angel needed. But he did say that the canker could return, and the vomiting points to that.
I hope she is better now. Please keep us posted. Smile
Back to top Go down
StrikerThePurpleFrog



Posts : 29
Join date : 2011-08-20
Location : Melbourne

PostSubject: Re: Help needed - Pigeon not getting any better    Sun Feb 26, 2012 7:53 pm

Well Angel is still going pretty much the same. I go through short phases of reducing her crop feeding so she gets some motivation to feed herself. As I'm not able to watch her every second of the day I'm not 100% sure either way but I suspect that she isn't and so I resume the crop feeding.

I think I'm just going to have to be patient and hope she comes good even if it takes a while.
We've got a recent arrival who is stargazing but still feeds herself. We call her 'Stella'. Our second outdoor aviary is almost complete so when the weather settles down they can move outside which I think will be good for them.
Back to top Go down
http://www.newlifeforanimals.org.au
Teresa
Administrative Member
avatar

Posts : 5381
Join date : 2009-07-23
Location : Portugal

PostSubject: Re: Help needed - Pigeon not getting any better    Sun Feb 26, 2012 10:01 pm

I know what you mean about worrying if a pigeon is eating enough.
Even if we could watch them every minute of the day, which we can't, there are still situations where we're left in doubt whether the seeds we saw the bird pick up were eaten, or tossed again. This is especially problematic with patients that have seizures.

Two things might help:
One is checking the droppings, because these are always just a little less than what the pigeon ate. Their number/volume is a good indicator of how much food was eaten.
Another idea is to use electronic kitchen scales to weigh the pigeon. I bought some rather basic ones, 0-2 Kg, and although they weren't expensive they're very accurate. They're a great help and very easy to use -- I usually wrap the pigeon in a piece of cloth (of known weight, or included in the tare) so he'll stay still long enough to be weighed; a very fidgety pigeon can be weighed inside a paper bag. In Angel's case,
you could weigh her every day or every couple of days, when you're worried she may not be eating enough by herself.
She's not vomiting any more, is she?

It's great to know that your second outdoor aviary is nearing completion! I'm sure they'll love moving in there. In the meanwhile, are you managing OK keeping new arrivals quaranteened? Without knowing for sure how long ago stargazing pigeons were infected before being rescued, it's always prudent to separate them from the others for a full 6 weeks.

Best wishes for Angel and Stella's recovery, and I hope the PMV outbreak in Australia is coming to an end now.
Back to top Go down
StrikerThePurpleFrog



Posts : 29
Join date : 2011-08-20
Location : Melbourne

PostSubject: Re: Help needed - Pigeon not getting any better    Mon Feb 27, 2012 6:45 am

Stella completed her quarantine just recently. I've now gotten electronic scales I think that is a brilliant idea.

Back to top Go down
http://www.newlifeforanimals.org.au
Teresa
Administrative Member
avatar

Posts : 5381
Join date : 2009-07-23
Location : Portugal

PostSubject: Re: Help needed - Pigeon not getting any better    Wed Feb 29, 2012 8:38 pm

Great job
Back to top Go down
StrikerThePurpleFrog



Posts : 29
Join date : 2011-08-20
Location : Melbourne

PostSubject: Re: Help needed - Pigeon not getting any better    Mon May 21, 2012 7:39 am

Thought an update was due for Stella. Unfortunately the news is not great.

Stella is still alive but not really improving. She has well and truly passed through the life cycle of the PMV virus and we're approaching 6 months now. She still stargazes permanently and rather dramatically. I am losing hope for her shaking this condition and wonder what to do next.

She can feed herself well enough despite the angle of her head and she grooms herself adequately too. She cannot perch on anything because she has no balance. Bumblefoot may eventually become an issue I suppose.

She is worse when she knows someone is in the room, probably because it's extra stress. When I observe her secretly she is less severe with the contorted stargazing.

Will she be like this forever and can I do anything to help her?
Back to top Go down
http://www.newlifeforanimals.org.au
Teresa
Administrative Member
avatar

Posts : 5381
Join date : 2009-07-23
Location : Portugal

PostSubject: Re: Help needed - Pigeon not getting any better    Tue May 29, 2012 4:17 pm

I wish I could say something more positive, but it's likely she will continue having convulsions on a permanent basis. My Sammy still does, after 2 years, in precisely the way you described for Stella. She doesn't hurt herself (though she backs into things and her tail feathers are a mess) and manages to eat and drink by herself, but everything in her cage has to be custom-made for her needs:

-- Her food container is especially deep, with a canopy above and on both sides, so the food she throws around ricochets back into the dish;

-- Her water container is a gravity dispenser, to preclude the risk of drowning;

-- I use flat roof tiles on the cage floor to prevent her getting bumblefoot, and give her something to wear out her nails on, provide better traction, and give her a place to stand that she can fall offf of without hurting herself.

-- Her nest is practically at ground level, with side walls to stop her rolling, and lined with soft cardboard. (Strips of paper, straw etc only get entangled on her feet).

-- Once a week I place a swimming pool inside her cage -- actually a pyrex dish with only 1/4" of water. Any more than that is not safe.

-- She consumes tons of grit. PMV survivors seem to have difficulty processing calcium and there were two emergencies before, so now she has ordinary grit, oyster shell, a pecking block with mineral supplements, lots of sunshine, and occasionally Calcivet, especially at laying times.

She would say she lives a normal life. She has her mate, her favourite things, and her occasional fits of bad temper. Like any other pigeon. But others haven't fared so well, and I know of some who had to be PTS because they would hurt themselves badly when they had fits.
You know Stella better than anyone on earth, and although a veterinary may give you the best clinical suggestion, ultimately trust her and trust your heart to give you the answer. You wouldn't believe how much Sammy has taught me! Smile
Back to top Go down
StrikerThePurpleFrog



Posts : 29
Join date : 2011-08-20
Location : Melbourne

PostSubject: Re: Help needed - Pigeon not getting any better    Wed May 30, 2012 3:31 am

Your post is much better news for me than you might have realised. What you've written is essentially a manual for how I can modify the enclosure to suit her needs and finally get her out of the cage she's in. I'd been scared to take her back to the vet as I wanted to find a way that we could accommodate her or something. Turns out my fears were pointless as our vet is so on board and has started her on Bactrim and gave her some other injections to help.

I can start making those modifications immediately and I think it will result in an immediate change in her quality of life. Thank you.
Back to top Go down
http://www.newlifeforanimals.org.au
Teresa
Administrative Member
avatar

Posts : 5381
Join date : 2009-07-23
Location : Portugal

PostSubject: Re: Help needed - Pigeon not getting any better    Wed May 30, 2012 8:43 pm

I'm glad that helped! Happy

The modifications to Sammy's living quarters were the result of a lot of good advice, plus trial and error until things worked out.
I had been advised originally to have Sammy put down as she was so young and so ill, but that little glint in her eye told me that she was no way ready to give up. She had to be hand fed for a whole seven months before she managed to eat and drink by herself.

Nowadays, water is still the main concern, as given the frequency of her seizures she could easily drown, but the gravity drinks dispenser is perfect because of its narrow opening -- she can get her beak in there only when her head is the right way up, and it poses no danger whatsoever.
With food, the concern is that she would throw most of it out of the dish and starve, whilst I might have the illusion that she'd eaten enough.

Here are a few pictures of her:

This is how Sammy spent her youth, being a pigeon burrito! Laughing



The seizures are a regular occurrence...

[flash][/flash]

... but they don't stop her from going about her business!

Back to top Go down
StrikerThePurpleFrog



Posts : 29
Join date : 2011-08-20
Location : Melbourne

PostSubject: Re: Help needed - Pigeon not getting any better    Wed May 30, 2012 8:47 pm

Awesome. I'll take some video footage, they're almost identical!
Back to top Go down
http://www.newlifeforanimals.org.au
Teresa
Administrative Member
avatar

Posts : 5381
Join date : 2009-07-23
Location : Portugal

PostSubject: Re: Help needed - Pigeon not getting any better    Wed May 30, 2012 8:54 pm

I look forward to seeing it! Smile

The nest in the photo above is not the same she has now -- the new one is lower, and I'm using the soft cardboard from crushed egg containers as lining (less work than washing bedding).
But in both cases I secured the nest to the underlying cage bars with plastic-coated wire, so the nest doesn't topple when she overbalances.
Back to top Go down
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: Help needed - Pigeon not getting any better    

Back to top Go down
 
Help needed - Pigeon not getting any better
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 1 of 1

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Pigeon Angels :: Pigeons and Their Friends :: Pigeon and Dove Chit Chat-
Jump to: