Oh man, Sammy's at it again...

I just can't believe it... She started staggering again this evening, walking with difficulty! Just how much calcium and vitamin D3 does that pigeon need?!!!!!!! It had only been 3 days since her last dose (calcium only, as the vet prescribed)! She also stargazed a couple of times.

I've got her here beside me, in the hospital cage, on a heating pad*. She had a quarter tablet of calcium+vitamin D3 (800 mg strength) when I brought her in, and will have another at 4am. If there isn't a big improvement by morning, it's back to the vet's for a shot. This little girl needs round the clock care, and no mistake.

*The heating pad arrived yesterday from the UK -- good timing...

I think they need it consistantly. Maybe you can find a calcium/vitD to put in the water.

I'm glad you heating pad arrived.

Teresa wrote:

I just can't believe it... She started staggering again this evening, walking with difficulty!

Just how much calcium and vitamin D3 does that pigeon need?!!!!!!!
It had only been 3 days since her last dose (calcium only, as the vet prescribed)! She also stargazed a couple of times.

I've got her here beside me, in the hospital cage, on a heating pad*. She had a quarter tablet of calcium+vitamin D3 (800 mg strength) when I brought her in, and will have another at 4am. If there isn't a big improvement by morning, it's back to the vet's for a shot. This little girl needs round the clock care, and no mistake.

*The heating pad arrived yesterday from the UK -- good timing...

I am so sorry to hear Sammy is having difficulties again, Teresa.
Could she possibly be getting too much calcium?

I hope she has improved since you last posted.
Please keep us posted.

I'm so glad your heating pad has arrived.

Oh Teresa so sorry to read that Sammy is not doing well again

I give our little dove, Raven, a dose of calcium/vit. D only wkly becuase she is always laying.

I too think you should give Sammy a calcium supplement wkly.

Sammy has been hospitalised again, hopefully to come back home tomorrow. She had an injection of calcium and is staying there overnight for observation.

The vet confirmed lack of calcium was again the cause, in spite of the fact she's been having a calcium supplement weekly.
It seems there were two problems involved -- one, as with Robin's hen, is that she's always laying, and the eggs are very big; the other was the med not being the best for her: the one the vet prescribed was no longer available to buy, so I was sold the closest to it. Not as easy for a pigeon to absorb, the vet said.

Charis, you're spot on -- the vet is going to get me a (better) calcium supplement to put in the water, to be better absorbed. Poor Sammy, can't bear to see her like that!

Best wishes to Sammy. I hope she has a speedy recovery, Teresa.

Thank you, Cindy! I hope so too.

Teresa I'm so glad Sammy will be on the correct calcuim. It will take a bit of time but she will be right as rain very soon.

Teresa...finding the right balance of calcium is a struggle I have with my birds too. Most don't realized how critical calcium and vitamin D actually are to a bird's health and over all well being.

Personally, I've been achy too and recently was diagnosed as Vito D deficient. I've been taking it for 3 weeks and there is a huge difference in how my body feels. It must be terrible for birds that can't tell us.

http://www.pigeonangels.com/t2460-calcium-in-birds#34802

Sammy's back home, but we're not out of the woods yet. She's standing much better, but she's stargazing so much again!
The vet was worried about her seizures too and did a lot of tests -- X-rays revealed a bit of a shadow in her lungs and a slightly enlarged kidney. That may be scarring from when she was very ill before, but she's been put on a course of Baytril just in case. She's also to have liquid calcium orally for 10 days.

The problem with Sammy's med was that the one the vet had prescribed was calcium gluconate, which is absorbed very quickly in the treatment of hypocalcaemia, and the one I was sold instead was calcium carbonate, slower to absorb, and for some reason Sammy doesn't seem able to metabolise it. But hopefully we've got the situation under control now.

During the day, when it was lovely and warm in the veranda, I let Sammy stay in her own cage with Pippin, who gets frantic when Sammy is not there. But when the sun set I brought her back in here with me. She's asleep on the heating pad now, but earlier, when she started stargazing and thrashing about, I confess I picked her up and held her, burrito-like, until she calmed down -- just as I used to do when she was little. And the way she looked intently at me and listened to my voice, I just knew that she remembered.
I'm hand feeding her some peas and corn, as she's not eating enough on her own. And she still pecks at my necklace, just as she did when she was a squeaker!

I'm glad Sammy is back home, Teresa.
I would pick up Pij, like you do Sammy, and hold home close to my chest when he would have such violent seizures.
I couldn't bear not to.
Positive thoughts and best wishes continue for her speedy recovery.

Sammy is improving steadily.
There were less seizures today, and she managed to eat by herself, so I let her go back to her own cage. Just checked up on her, and she's huddled up with Pippin in their nest.

Teresa wrote:

Sammy is improving steadily.
There were less seizures today, and she managed to eat by herself, so I let her go back to her own cage.

Way to go, Sammy girl.

Teresa wrote:

Just checked up on her, and she's huddled up with Pippin in their nest.

Bless their hearts.

That must be a huge relief.

Teresa - I am extremely sorry to hear that Sammy is having these problems again and I really hope that you can get this under control soon again.
I am using Calcivet from the Bird Company in England and give it twice a week to Pina, once to Rudi. I distribute 2 drops on some pellets for each bird and handfeed this to make sure they really get it completely. This fluid calcium is combined with D3 for better absorption.

the link to the company and ordering:
http://www.birdcareco.com/English/Product_information/Breeding_products/breeding.html#bcalcivet

I also found the link for Portugal:
http://www.ornicare.com/

http://loja.ornicare.com/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=10&products_id=81

Thanks for the links, Petra.
It looks as though it might be better to order from the UK, as one of the Portuguese sites is 'being set up' and the other hasn't been updated since 2006. That's the price you pay for living in a banana republic...

Do you know what kind of calcium compound is in Calcivet? I couldn't find that info anywhere, and for Sammy it has to be calcium gluconate, not calcium carbonate, which she can't absorb. Thankfully I can get the right one for her from the vet's surgery. It's the injectable one but it can be taken orally.
Calcivet sounds great for the other hens, though!

Teresa - I checked on the German page and on my bottle but unfortunately it did not tell me either. so I wrote a short email to them and asked. Will let you know when I have the answer unless someone else has it already???

Calcivet is from Vetafarm. Here's a link...

http://www.theparrotfinches.com/calcivet.htm

Hi Teresa - did you see the answer from Charis? That answers the question - Calcivet is a gluconate! So you could easily give it to Sammy.
I ordered it directly from England.

Teresa, today I got the answer from the Bird Care Company in England regarding the Calcivet:


Dear Petra,

Calcivet contains calcium gluconate. In this chelated form the calcium is far easier for the animal to absorb and manage within the body. It is also relatively easy to dissolve though to get the concentration in Calcivet (a super-saturated solution) requires some sophisticated technology.

In contrast calcium carbonate is insoluble and very difficult to absorb. Once in the body it is hard to manage.

Calcium carbonate (as cuttle fish bone and oyster shell grit) have been the traditional calcium supplements in bird keeping for many, many decades but they are rapidly being replaced by Calcivet.

Can I ask why you need to know this information?

Kind regards

Malcolm Green
Director
The Birdcare Company
Leading the way - naturally
mailto:malcolm@BirdcareCo.com

That's brilliant! Thank you so much, Petra!

So that must be what the vet prescribed for Sammy. She gave me a little tube with the med, so there's no name on it.
Now I know that I can get my own supply of it.

Thanks again!

Teresa, Malcolm confirmed that you can order it in Portugal:

http://www.ornicare.com/

when you use this website (I have tried it and it works) you need to find the link "online store" -
it's on the left sidebar - then you need to click on Bird Care Company under "Manufacturers" - there you can find the liquid Calcivet in various sizes.

pigeonwriter wrote:

Teresa, Malcolm confirmed that you can order it in Portugal:

http://www.ornicare.com/

when you use this website (I have tried it and it works) you need to find the link "online store" -
it's on the left sidebar - then you need to click on Bird Care Company under "Manufacturers" - there you can find the liquid Calcivet in various sizes.

Thank you so much, Petra!

Sammy is much better now. Her treatment (alternating the calcium supplement with Baytril daily) will be over after 10 days, and after that I'm thinking of giving her the calcium gluconate once a week, and then twice on the week she lays the next egg. Does that seem okay?

I'm so glad Sammy is doing better, Teresa.