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 Curled toes

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Matilda
wolfwood
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wolfwood
Special Pigeon Angel
wolfwood

Posts : 150
Join date : 2009-06-28
Age : 64
Location : SE New Hampshire

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PostSubject: Curled toes   Curled toes Icon_minitimeThu Jan 07, 2010 4:24 pm

1st, let me thank Charis (aka Matilda) for sharing with me what she knows (or thinks) about what my pijjie's issue may be. The long & short of it is that we don't yet know but speaking with Charis yesterday at least gave us some ideas that we hadn't thought of AND gave us some peace of mind (ie. it's not likely to be something contagious to the others ... so Eclipse has been removed from isolation and HE likes that!!!)

I went out to the loft the other day and noticed that Eclipse's right foot looked 'funny'. On closer inspection, he is standing & walking on it but all the toes are curled in - including the back one. I picked him up to inspect the foot and, finding no growths, no discolored skin, no out-of-place scaling, cuts, etc., and the other foot seems fine. I straightened each toe into its proper position - expecting to get some kind of reaction from him. Nothing. No wing slap, he didn't pull the foot away, no resistance in the toes - NOTHING. Everything else about the bird seems fine and I don't see anything similar with any of the others. Poops, feeding, feathers, eyes, no shaking, no puffing up, no growths, no injuries, and his mouth/throat look clear. So - I did what any right-minded-pigeon-loving-bird-mother would do - I called Charis :Yes: Well, I isolated the bird first - then I called.

Thanks, Charis!!! I have now called our Avian Vet (Tony Gaurino at The Animal Medical Center in Portsmouth, NH...on "Matilda's List"). Eclipse & I will be paying a visit to Tony tomorrow morning at 9:30. I'll let you all know what comes of the appt but - for now - Tony is thinking that there could be a neurological issue or a tumor of some sort (Great job, Charis!!). He said an x-ray is the best way to tell....so that's what we'll do...and go from there.

Stay tuned! (and yes, I'll get some photos of the foot)I was surprised to only find 2 threads on here when I searched "feet" .... so I definitely want whatever information I get to made available to everyone.
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Matilda
Special Pigeon Angel
Matilda

Posts : 9198
Join date : 2009-01-11
Location : Pacific Northwest of the United States of America

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PostSubject: Re: Curled toes   Curled toes Icon_minitimeThu Jan 07, 2010 4:31 pm

wolfwood wrote:
1st, let me thank Charis (aka Matilda) for sharing with me what she knows (or thinks) about what my pijjie's issue may be. The long & short of it is that we don't yet know but speaking with Charis yesterday at least gave us some ideas that we hadn't thought of AND gave us some peace of mind (ie. it's not likely to be something contagious to the others ... so Eclipse has been removed from isolation and HE likes that!!!)

I went out to the loft the other day and noticed that Eclipse's right foot looked 'funny'. On closer inspection, he is standing & walking on it but all the toes are curled in - including the back one. I picked him up to inspect the foot and, finding no growths, no discolored skin, no out-of-place scaling, cuts, etc., and the other foot seems fine. I straightened each toe into its proper position - expecting to get some kind of reaction from him. Nothing. No wing slap, he didn't pull the foot away, no resistance in the toes - NOTHING. Everything else about the bird seems fine and I don't see anything similar with any of the others. Poops, feeding, feathers, eyes, no shaking, no puffing up, no growths, no injuries, and his mouth/throat look clear. So - I did what any right-minded-pigeon-loving-bird-mother would do - I called Charis Curled toes 570843 Well, I isolated the bird first - then I called.

Thanks, Charis!!! I have now called our Avian Vet (Tony Gaurino at The Animal Medical Center in Portsmouth, NH...on "Matilda's List"). Eclipse & I will be paying a visit to Tony tomorrow morning at 9:30. I'll let you all know what comes of the appt but - for now - Tony is thinking that there could be a neurological issue or a tumor of some sort (Great job, Charis!!). He said an x-ray is the best way to tell....so that's what we'll do...and go from there.

Stay tuned! (and yes, I'll get some photos of the foot)I was surprised to only find 2 threads on here when I searched "feet" .... so I definitely want whatever information I get to made available to everyone.

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Now we will have more information on feet.
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plamenh
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plamenh

Posts : 881
Join date : 2009-09-10
Location : Johannesburg, South Africa

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PostSubject: Re: Curled toes   Curled toes Icon_minitimeThu Jan 07, 2010 4:41 pm

The reason may be Vitamin B2 (riboflavin) deficiency which causes Curled toe paralysis.
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wolfwood
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wolfwood

Posts : 150
Join date : 2009-06-28
Age : 64
Location : SE New Hampshire

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PostSubject: Re: Curled toes   Curled toes Icon_minitimeThu Jan 07, 2010 4:50 pm

Thanks. I'll talk to Tony about that!!

Just for the record - Tony was our dog/cat vet many, many years ago before we moved too far from him to make staying with him reasonable for our kids. But - now we have him back for our birds!! He really is WONDERFUL and ALWAYS thinks first about the animal's health, welfare, and comfort. If this is about vitamins - we will all be THRILLED!


Last edited by wolfwood on Fri Jan 08, 2010 11:59 am; edited 1 time in total
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Luna Wolf
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Luna Wolf

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Age : 26

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PostSubject: Re: Curled toes   Curled toes Icon_minitimeThu Jan 07, 2010 8:10 pm

Has he always been that way or has it just started recently? Are the toes curled up like when they lift their feet or are they twisted around? I have a dove who was like that when we got him, doesn't seem to bother him, I belive it was caused by not enough vitamins when he was young. I can get a photo of his foot to compare to if you like?
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wolfwood
Special Pigeon Angel
wolfwood

Posts : 150
Join date : 2009-06-28
Age : 64
Location : SE New Hampshire

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PostSubject: Re: Curled toes   Curled toes Icon_minitimeThu Jan 07, 2010 8:39 pm

One of the outside toes curled when we got him - but not all of them. I just noticed ALL of them being curled the other day. And yes, they're curled 'straight" but kinda laying on their sides. Tonight there seemed to be a little bit of strength there as he sorta curled his toes around my finger. He also was able to kick with the foot .... so I'd guess that it's not paralyzed.
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wolfwood
Special Pigeon Angel
wolfwood

Posts : 150
Join date : 2009-06-28
Age : 64
Location : SE New Hampshire

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PostSubject: Re: Curled toes   Curled toes Icon_minitimeFri Jan 08, 2010 12:21 pm

Well, it looks like we likely have a Senior Citizen with Sciatica.

We can't be certain of what's causing the Sciatica but, as of this morning, it is periodically effecting the left foot, too. Tony and I discussed all of the various options for what might be wrong, and the various reasons why he was ruling each one out...including a possible vitamin deficiency. We also discussed the bird's age (now 9), behavior, feeding, mobility, etc. and gave Eclipse a bit of floor time so Tony could see him standing and walking (which he was quite willing to do). Tony is pretty confident that there is some kind of growth/tumor at the junction where the Sciatic Nerve splits to travel down each leg (just above the kidneys). The tumor is likely sitting more to the right side ... ergo the right foot curl .... but now moving or enlarging to impact the left foot periodically, as well. I understand Sciatica all too well and his explanation made perfect sense to me! He sent Eclipse home with Medicam - an anti-inflamatory liquid which will also address any pain he may be in but not showing. We'll give him a course of 10 days @ 2x/days and see what happens. Hopefully, this alleviates some, if not all, of the problem.
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AZWhitefeather
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AZWhitefeather

Posts : 10863
Join date : 2009-01-11
Location : Arizona Southwestern United States

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PostSubject: Re: Curled toes   Curled toes Icon_minitimeFri Jan 08, 2010 12:28 pm

Appreciate the update, Judi. Curled toes 458406
Sending get well wishes to Eclipse. Curled toes 193770

Please do keep us posted on how things are coming along.

_________________
Cindy

A Pigeon's Prayer
Please watch over us while we fly,
Keeping us safe from the predators that share the sky.

If we become ill or injured in any way,
Please lead us to safety where we are welcome to stay.
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Teresa
Administrative Member
Teresa

Posts : 5381
Join date : 2009-07-23
Location : Portugal

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PostSubject: Re: Curled toes   Curled toes Icon_minitimeSat Jan 09, 2010 6:01 am

Thanks for sharing this information about Eclipse's condition -- it's something I knew nothing about!
It's wonderful that you were reunited with an excellent vet, who has made every effort to find the cause. And, of course, all praise to Charis, who is the cat's whiskers! (For members across the pond, that means 'top rate'!)

Very best wishes for Eclipse's recovery! Circle of Love
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Matilda
Special Pigeon Angel
Matilda

Posts : 9198
Join date : 2009-01-11
Location : Pacific Northwest of the United States of America

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PostSubject: Re: Curled toes   Curled toes Icon_minitimeSat Jan 09, 2010 11:43 am

How is Eclipse doing with the metacam?
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wolfwood
Special Pigeon Angel
wolfwood

Posts : 150
Join date : 2009-06-28
Age : 64
Location : SE New Hampshire

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PostSubject: Re: Curled toes   Curled toes Icon_minitimeSat Jan 09, 2010 1:36 pm

Thanks, all!!! Yes, Theresa, Charis is, most definitely, the 'cat's whiskers'!!!!

Our patient is doing well. Eclipse is in the general loft with everyone else and all is well. In fact, his mate laid an egg yesterday afternoon!!!!! HAH!!! I've also now done some reading about Meticam and it would seem that it has been used for quite awhile, in the UK, Canada & now the US, for humans, dogs, cats, and most recently, birds but with VERY different dosages between species. Some discussions have said that, for dogs & cats, it is to be used for only a short time, while others discuss some longterm (months!) treatment with birds. I now understand that it is an NSAID ... like ibuprophin. And, like all the warnings with Motrin & Advil, even Aspirin, NSAIDs can cause Kidney issues, ulcers, and bleeding. The good news is that I, myself, have been taking VERY large dosages of Motrin for YEARS with no negative side-effects so know that NSAIDs don't always do that .... some bodies are more susceptible than others. We'll certainly keep a very close eye on him and move him (and his mate) into the isolation ward if the others pick on him due to the effects of the Metacam. I also have a call into Tony - just to check on the stuff.

I would be remiss if I didn't add a special PUBLIC thank you to Charis who, once again, took time out of her VERY busy schedule to give me a call AND an education about Metacam. I didn't know anything about the stuff ... before speaking with her, anyway!! It is so refreshing to have others to turn to who REALLY have the ANIMAL's best interest at heart .... rather than needing to build their own egos by being the one with the answer. Everyone of you can certainly be assured that when you read a response from Charis - she's evaluated the information at hand, has considered all the possibilities that she knows of, has pulled from her years of experience, and IS NOT trying to "practice medicine" from afar (a very dangerous practice, indeed!!!). So - Charis - thank you for the info you shared, for expanding MY ability to move forward intelligently, and for caring so very much. You are - INDEED - an angel to all of us.
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wolfwood
Special Pigeon Angel
wolfwood

Posts : 150
Join date : 2009-06-28
Age : 64
Location : SE New Hampshire

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PostSubject: Just a bit of an update!   Curled toes Icon_minitimeFri Jan 15, 2010 4:15 pm

Eclipse is doing well and both feet are relatively normal. A few of his toes (just the tips) are still bent/curled to the side but his feet are at least flat now and he's not walking/standing on his "knuckles". He gets his meds morning & night and takes them like a champ. (Nice that our 1st exp. with giving bird-meds is so easy!!) He's a bit more of a challenge to catch now as he's certainly more mobil and, once caught, he lays quietly in my hands while I open his beak, insert the syringe, & dispense the meds. What good boy!! He's only got a few more days of it and then, at least, 1 1/2 weeks of "no meds" while we are gone. I'll be talking to Tony early next week to give him the *report* and then we'll see how he's doing when we get back.


So there you have it. He is responding exactly as Tony predicted .... and as we had hoped!! pigeon 1
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Matilda
Special Pigeon Angel
Matilda

Posts : 9198
Join date : 2009-01-11
Location : Pacific Northwest of the United States of America

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PostSubject: Re: Curled toes   Curled toes Icon_minitimeFri Jan 15, 2010 6:05 pm

That's wonderful. I'll bet he is appreciative. Curled toes 526287
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AZWhitefeather
Owner/Administrator
AZWhitefeather

Posts : 10863
Join date : 2009-01-11
Location : Arizona Southwestern United States

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PostSubject: Re: Curled toes   Curled toes Icon_minitimeFri Jan 15, 2010 7:36 pm

We appreciate the update, Judi.
I'm glad to hear Eclipse is doing better. Curled toes 142829

_________________
Cindy

A Pigeon's Prayer
Please watch over us while we fly,
Keeping us safe from the predators that share the sky.

If we become ill or injured in any way,
Please lead us to safety where we are welcome to stay.
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