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Lapalomatriste

Lapalomatriste

Posts : 52
Join date : 2009-06-05
Age : 70
Location : Belgium/Spain

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PostSubject: Need advice   Need advice Icon_minitimeMon Oct 11, 2010 5:27 pm

My friend Irene just emailed me, but I am speechless
The only thing I can think of is tricho (canker) that started bleeding inside the trachea... is it possible?
Any opinions?
Thank you, Myriam

Dear Myriam,

right now only YOU may be able to give me advise on my little pigeon Laithi which is seriously ill... She is only 6 weeks old but the last week she has been sleepy, she eats less than normally and her wings and tail are hanging and touching the ground, as if they were paralysed... Today, about 2 hours ago she started coughing continually and bleeding from its beck... not much but tiny drops of blood come out when she coughs with force... I called the vet but she doesn't know what's wrong with my little bird... Nobody can help me... and so the poor baby seems to be condemned to die... Do you know if there is any way I could save Laithi? I need urgent advice! Right now I have her on my lap, covered with a warm blanket... She continues to cough but no more blood is coming out (fortunately)! She seems calm, she even tried to eat a little bread from my hands some time ago... I wish I knew what's wrong with her and how to help her! You who are an expert on pigeons may know something about her strange situation... She is in a critical condition and I'm very worried for her...
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Matilda
Special Pigeon Angel
Matilda

Posts : 9198
Join date : 2009-01-11
Location : Pacific Northwest of the United States of America

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PostSubject: Re: Need advice   Need advice Icon_minitimeMon Oct 11, 2010 6:02 pm

Myriam...most likely it is canker that has broken away and caused a bleed. Can you have her look down the throat to see if she sees any yellow canker spots. Another indication would be very bad smelling poop.
I am surprised the vet cannot take a throat swab and do a stain and look at it under the microscope.
If your friend has spartrix or access to metronidazole, she should begin treatment now.
She also needs to keep the bird hydrated and fed. If she can buy rice cereal for human babies and make a thin formula, she can feed to the baby little bits at a time, at the back of the throat.
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Lapalomatriste

Lapalomatriste

Posts : 52
Join date : 2009-06-05
Age : 70
Location : Belgium/Spain

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PostSubject: Re: Need advice   Need advice Icon_minitimeTue Oct 12, 2010 2:53 am

Thank you Charis

Irene is in Venice, I am in Spain... we can only guess without seeing little Laithi

I allready adviced her to buy metronidazole yesterday night, but I dont know the dosages well
I told her 10 mg each day for 5 days, shouild it not be 25?

Irene has registered here, as I advised her, but does not find out how to post.

I hope the little one made it through the night.

Myriam
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Lapalomatriste

Lapalomatriste

Posts : 52
Join date : 2009-06-05
Age : 70
Location : Belgium/Spain

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PostSubject: Re: Need advice   Need advice Icon_minitimeTue Oct 12, 2010 3:43 am



Dear Myriam,

unfortunately my little baby Laithi died last night. At least she was calm and she didn't suffer much... I'm very sad for her and worried about my other pigeons that have been in touch with her, eating and drinking from her plates... Today I'm very busy but if I manage this evening I'll take them all to a vet outside the city for a check up... Poor birds, their health is so fragile... I'll miss Laithi a lot... Her little brother is left alone and he seems very melancholic this morning, he is not moving much... I don't know where to put the body of Laithi... I can't throw it away with the rubbish, it seems awful! I think I will put her in a little box with stones and throw her in the sea, that's a better place to rest... Aaah... it's so sad, I don't know how I can deal with all this anymore but I must take care of my poor baby even when she is dead...

Love, Irene
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Matilda
Special Pigeon Angel
Matilda

Posts : 9198
Join date : 2009-01-11
Location : Pacific Northwest of the United States of America

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PostSubject: Re: Need advice   Need advice Icon_minitimeTue Oct 12, 2010 7:00 am

I'm very sorry to read this outcome.
Please do tell Irene that it is important to follow through and check the other pigeons. It's good to treat for at least canker this time of the year when the weather starts to change because that in itself can be stressful and the stress can bring on a canker outbreak.
Please...do give her my condolences over the loss of this precious little pigeon.
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Matilda
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Matilda

Posts : 9198
Join date : 2009-01-11
Location : Pacific Northwest of the United States of America

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PostSubject: Re: Need advice   Need advice Icon_minitimeTue Oct 12, 2010 7:01 am

Lapalomatriste wrote:
Thank you Charis

Irene is in Venice, I am in Spain... we can only guess without seeing little Laithi

I allready adviced her to buy metronidazole yesterday night, but I dont know the dosages well
I told her 10 mg each day for 5 days, shouild it not be 25?

Irene has registered here, as I advised her, but does not find out how to post.

I hope the little one made it through the night.

Myriam

The dose does depend on the weight of the bird but sometimes we just need to make a guess. Probaby, for most medium sized birds 25mg would be adequate. I don't have time just now, but later today I will post some instructions for amount to weight.
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Matilda
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Matilda

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Join date : 2009-01-11
Location : Pacific Northwest of the United States of America

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PostSubject: Re: Need advice   Need advice Icon_minitimeTue Oct 12, 2010 7:23 am

250 mg. tablet + 10 ml (cc) water (or, syrpalta, grape flavored)

This will be at 25 mg/ml concentration

Example: 250 gram bird - Dose 20 mg/kg (the 20 mg/kg is a set standard for this medicine): Weight is converted to kilograms .25 kg x 20 mg/kg divided by 25 mg/ml equals a dose of 0.2 ml (cc).

I use bottled water, room temp, and refrigerate.. It is extremely important that the pill be pounded into a powder and then put in the water. ALWAYS shake the bottle strongly to get it mixed well, and draw the medicine immediately after shaking.

This is from my vet. Some weights/dosage: 175 grams - .14 cc; 275 grams - .22 cc; 400 grams - .32 cc.

Instructions from Maggie.
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AZWhitefeather
Owner/Administrator
AZWhitefeather

Posts : 10863
Join date : 2009-01-11
Location : Arizona Southwestern United States

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PostSubject: Re: Need advice   Need advice Icon_minitimeTue Oct 12, 2010 7:37 am

Myriam,
Please pass along to Irene, my condolences.


pigeon 1 May you forever fly free sweet baby Laithi pigeon 1

_________________
Cindy

A Pigeon's Prayer
Please watch over us while we fly,
Keeping us safe from the predators that share the sky.

If we become ill or injured in any way,
Please lead us to safety where we are welcome to stay.
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Lapalomatriste

Lapalomatriste

Posts : 52
Join date : 2009-06-05
Age : 70
Location : Belgium/Spain

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PostSubject: Re: Need advice   Need advice Icon_minitimeTue Oct 12, 2010 1:53 pm


Thank you all for your condolences
Irene wrote me today, she will be going toa better vet with her 7 other pigeons and treat them for canker.
Hope they will be ok.
Thanks Charis, for the info about teh metronidazole, I am not used to it, I use Trichoplus from Oropharma
But I heard there are better results with the métronidazole Smile
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Matilda
Special Pigeon Angel
Matilda

Posts : 9198
Join date : 2009-01-11
Location : Pacific Northwest of the United States of America

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PostSubject: Re: Need advice   Need advice Icon_minitimeTue Oct 12, 2010 3:30 pm

I'm glad she has another vet to tqke her pigeons to see.

Myriam...I'm always happy to send you metronidazole. Also, I do know of some companies that will ship internationally.
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Teresa
Administrative Member
Teresa

Posts : 5381
Join date : 2009-07-23
Location : Portugal

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PostSubject: Re: Need advice   Need advice Icon_minitimeSun Oct 24, 2010 7:14 pm

I can get Flagyl over the counter here. It would be quicker to arrive, and it wouldn't require any customs paperwork.
I'll send you some, Myriam, if you PM me your address.
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Lapalomatriste

Lapalomatriste

Posts : 52
Join date : 2009-06-05
Age : 70
Location : Belgium/Spain

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PostSubject: Re: Need advice   Need advice Icon_minitimeWed Nov 10, 2010 6:58 pm

Thank you Matilda and Teresa
Sorry for the late response

I can buy Flagyl freely and very cheap in Spain and in Belgium it's available with the help of my vet.
I found a little feral near my loft in Spain who is a very bad case of canker, he looks quite much like this case:

http://www.pigeonangels.com/pigeon-rescue-suspect-injury-f6/photojournal-showing-recovery-from-severe-canker-t1798.htm

I am treating him with metronidazole, he is on day 4 now and the canker in his mouth is slowly disapearing.

I'll try to post a pic, but he is so terribly scared of me , I try not to stress him unnecessarely.

Do you think it's usefull to also give Baytril?

I put antibiotic ointment on his eye.

Myriam
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Matilda
Special Pigeon Angel
Matilda

Posts : 9198
Join date : 2009-01-11
Location : Pacific Northwest of the United States of America

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PostSubject: Re: Need advice   Need advice Icon_minitimeWed Nov 10, 2010 8:25 pm

Myriam...baytrill would be a good idea because of seconary infection.

Poor little guy. I'm glad your found him so he will get another chance at life.
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