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 Rescued another pigeon, perhaps with PMV :(

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Matilda
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PostSubject: Re: Rescued another pigeon, perhaps with PMV :(   Sat Jul 10, 2010 10:52 am

I'm glad you are better, Dev.

Rather than vitamins for dogs or cats...is there anything available for chickens?
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PostSubject: Re: Rescued another pigeon, perhaps with PMV :(   Sat Jul 10, 2010 11:10 am

Charis,

These two are the Vitamin supplements given by one of the Medical shop that sells poultry products. On both the packs, it was mentioned that we can use it on poultry birds, cats, dogs and goats. They have even mentioned the quantity that should be used. Here is the detailed info on them.

=====================================
1. Ambiplex - Feed supplement of Amino Acids & B-Vitamins

Every 5ml contains

Vitamin B1= 7.0mg
Vitamin B2= 2.5mg
Vitamin B6= 1.0mg
Vitamin B12= 12.5mcg
Biotin=25.0mcg
Calcium Panthenate= 2.5mg
Niacin=75.0mg
Choline Chloride=10.0mg
Methionine=10.0mg
Lysine=20.0mg

Quantity should be feed.
For 100 birds 5-6 ml mixes in their drinking water.

=====================================
2. Viselam - Feed supplement of Vitamins, Selenium & Amino Acids

Every 5ml contains

Vitamin A = 60,000 IU
(As vitamin A Palmitate)
Vitamin D3 = 30,000 IU
Vitamin E = 150 mg
Vitamin B12 = 25 mcg
Folic Acid = 2.5 mg
Vitamin C = 100 mg
L-Lysine = 25 mg
DL-Methionine = 12.5 mg
L-Tryptophan = 5 mg
Selenium = 100 mcg

Quantity should be feed.
For 100 birds 4-5 ml mixes in their drinking water.

Do you think these Vitamin Supplements would help us ?

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Teresa
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PostSubject: Re: Rescued another pigeon, perhaps with PMV :(   Sat Jul 10, 2010 1:54 pm

The first one seems more restricted (mostly Vitamin B complex), so I would go with the second if all of the ingredients are safe. I know there's one vitamin that pigeons shouldn't have a lot of, but I can't remember which... Disappointed

I do know that, if it is PMV, a high intake of calcium (+vitamin D, for pigeons kept indoors) will help a lot (and if it isn't, it won't do any harm, except for the possibility of neutralising sulfa-based antibiotics).
The multivitamin complex the vet recommended for my pigeons was Glicopan. Here is the link to their site, which lists the composition. It may be useful for a comparison.

www.rightsunchina.com/english/vetnil_glicopan_pet.html+Vetnil+%22glicopan+pet%22&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=pt" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:uivsBwJOgewJ:www.rightsunchina.com/english/vetnil_glicopan_pet.html+Vetnil+%22glicopan+pet%22&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=pt

I'm so sorry to hear your latest rescue didn't make it. Very sad Something similar happened to me today. I suppose we just have to soldier on -- more will come, and we'll need to help them.
Hope your cold is better.
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Teresa
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PostSubject: Re: Rescued another pigeon, perhaps with PMV :(   Sat Jul 10, 2010 2:13 pm

Diagnosing PMV for sure, is extraordinarily difficult. Those with most experience suggest always medicating the pigeon for the 'usual suspects' (canker, cocci and worms) and, if there is an infection, whether primary or secondary, that will need to be addressed too.
As an example, one patient I treated definitely had a viral infection, but what actually killed him was late-stage acute pneumonia (bacterial infection).
Charis searched for symptoms that might be exclusive to PMV, but didn't find them.
I understand that light sensitivity is more acute in PMV patients than others, but I also know that treatment with Chloramphenicol causes light sensitivity.
Some people say that neurological symptoms in PMV pigeons are triggered or worsen a lot if they are startled, whilst neurological symptoms associated with other diseases don't change when they're startled -- but I can't confirm this. My only proven viral-infection patient didn't have seizures when startled, though he tilted his head more.

You've probably already read this thread, but I totally recommend it. It's an incredible synthesis of the existing knowledge on this subject, even if it makes my head spin with its complexity:
http://www.pigeonangels.com/pigeon-and-dove-illness-and-injury-discussion-forum-f21/pigeon-illnesses-with-symptoms-similar-to-pmv-t903.htm
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PostSubject: Re: Rescued another pigeon, perhaps with PMV :(   Sun Jul 11, 2010 9:47 am

Thanks Terasa. I am very sorry to hear about the pigeon which passed away. I am a little worried about feeding it any wrong vitamins Very sad Both Ambiplex & Viselam seems to be very different from the Glicopan's composition Very sad I will try and find out if there are any other Vitamin Supplements available.

I went through Plamen's thread too, but I have still not been able to match this bird's condition to any of those categories in particular Very sad I am hoping to find the actual problem soon.
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Matilda
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PostSubject: Re: Rescued another pigeon, perhaps with PMV :(   Sun Jul 11, 2010 9:52 am

Is there a vitamin available in India called...Red Cell? It's used for cows, chickens, pigs, etc.
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spdevanand
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PostSubject: Re: Rescued another pigeon, perhaps with PMV :(   Sun Jul 11, 2010 10:21 am

Charis, I will check this out tomorrow and update you guys.
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PostSubject: Re: Rescued another pigeon, perhaps with PMV :(   Mon Jul 12, 2010 7:40 am

Hi Charis,

I checked with the Pet Medical store here, they do not have Red Cell Very sad It seems the have a specific Vitamin D3 supplement but the quantity seems to really huge which is meant for Poultry. They don't have a smaller size.
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AZWhitefeather
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PostSubject: Re: Rescued another pigeon, perhaps with PMV :(   Mon Jul 12, 2010 7:50 am

spdevanand wrote:
Hi Charis,

I checked with the Pet Medical store here, they do not have Red Cell Very sad It seems the have a specific Vitamin D3 supplement but the quantity seems to really huge which is meant for Poultry. They don't have a smaller size.

I'm sorry you had no luck in your vitamin search, Dev. Disappointed

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Keeping us safe from the predators that share the sky.

If we become ill or injured in any way,
Please lead us to safety where we are welcome to stay.
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Matilda
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PostSubject: Re: Rescued another pigeon, perhaps with PMV :(   Mon Jul 12, 2010 8:48 am

Look for human vitamin with calcium and vitamin D3. Get the one with the lowest concentrations and I'll help you figure out how to break it up.
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pigeonwriter
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PostSubject: Re: Rescued another pigeon, perhaps with PMV :(   Mon Jul 12, 2010 10:51 am

spdevanand wrote:
Charis,

These two are the Vitamin supplements given by one of the Medical shop that sells poultry products. On both the packs, it was mentioned that we can use it on poultry birds, cats, dogs and goats. They have even mentioned the quantity that should be used. Here is the detailed info on them.

=====================================
1. Ambiplex - Feed supplement of Amino Acids & B-Vitamins

Every 5ml contains

Vitamin B1= 7.0mg
Vitamin B2= 2.5mg
Vitamin B6= 1.0mg
Vitamin B12= 12.5mcg
Biotin=25.0mcg
Calcium Panthenate= 2.5mg
Niacin=75.0mg
Choline Chloride=10.0mg
Methionine=10.0mg
Lysine=20.0mg

Quantity should be feed.
For 100 birds 5-6 ml mixes in their drinking water.

=====================================
2. Viselam - Feed supplement of Vitamins, Selenium & Amino Acids

Every 5ml contains

Vitamin A = 60,000 IU
(As vitamin A Palmitate)
Vitamin D3 = 30,000 IU
Vitamin E = 150 mg
Vitamin B12 = 25 mcg
Folic Acid = 2.5 mg
Vitamin C = 100 mg
L-Lysine = 25 mg
DL-Methionine = 12.5 mg
L-Tryptophan = 5 mg
Selenium = 100 mcg

Quantity should be feed.
For 100 birds 4-5 ml mixes in their drinking water.

Do you think these Vitamin Supplements would help us ?


Dev, I checked my vitamin complex and I must say I would not take the first one - just B-complex. The second one is very concentrated: you would have to split it down at least to 0.5 ml/1 liter of drinking water to be safe. Also you don't want to add Vitamin E because this supports the fertility/breeding - this is not something you want to do?

For nourishment and support to single pigeons I would rather recommend you to look for some baby cereal without milk with fruit but without the addition of sugar and feed it with a tube. This has proven to be much more helpful to bring back a pigeon to normal weight and health. At least this is my experience with our sick PMV's and the others as well.

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spdevanand
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PostSubject: Re: Rescued another pigeon, perhaps with PMV :(   Tue Jul 13, 2010 6:57 am

Charis / Petra / Cindy,

Sure, I would not start with these vitamin supplements. Today I got a medicine (called 'Shelcal-500') which has Calcium & Vitamin D3. Here is the composition,

Each medicine contains:
Calcium Carbonate from Oyster Shell - 1.25g equivalent to Elemental Calcium - 500 mg
Vitamin D3 IP - 250 IU.

Do you guys think this medicine can be used?

Petra, I will try out for the baby cereal that does not have added sugar. As of now I am only feeding it soaked peas varieties and yogurt.

Thanks
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AZWhitefeather
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PostSubject: Re: Rescued another pigeon, perhaps with PMV :(   Tue Jul 13, 2010 7:41 am

Continued positive thoughts are being sent your way, Dev.

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Cindy

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Please watch over us while we fly,
Keeping us safe from the predators that share the sky.

If we become ill or injured in any way,
Please lead us to safety where we are welcome to stay.
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Matilda
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PostSubject: Re: Rescued another pigeon, perhaps with PMV :(   Tue Jul 13, 2010 8:02 am

spdevanand wrote:
Charis / Petra / Cindy,

Sure, I would not start with these vitamin supplements. Today I got a medicine (called 'Shelcal-500') which has Calcium & Vitamin D3. Here is the composition,

Each medicine contains:
Calcium Carbonate from Oyster Shell - 1.25g equivalent to Elemental Calcium - 500 mg
Vitamin D3 IP - 250 IU.

Do you guys think this medicine can be used?

Petra, I will try out for the baby cereal that does not have added sugar. As of now I am only feeding it soaked peas varieties and yogurt.

Thanks

Yes, but just a small amount. I would give him 1/8 of a pill each day for 5 days and see if that helps.
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PostSubject: Re: Rescued another pigeon, perhaps with PMV :(   Tue Jul 13, 2010 9:44 am

Matilda wrote:

Yes, but just a small amount. I would give him 1/8 of a pill each day for 5 days and see if that helps.

Sure, I will start with it today.
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PostSubject: Re: Rescued another pigeon, perhaps with PMV :(   Tue Jul 13, 2010 12:17 pm

I hope you see some improvement, Dev.
Please keep us posted.

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Cindy

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Please watch over us while we fly,
Keeping us safe from the predators that share the sky.

If we become ill or injured in any way,
Please lead us to safety where we are welcome to stay.
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PostSubject: Re: Rescued another pigeon, perhaps with PMV :(   Thu Jul 15, 2010 10:09 am

Hey Guys,

Bird is continuing to be good. It is a bit more active. When I was at office today, I got a call from my friend and he said the bird was trying to peck at some grains that were fallen near by. He tried offering them some more grains in a plate and the bird was able to peck some of them Smile However, I am still handfeeding it. I feel the bird is getting better. The second round of de-wormer was given two days ago. I just started with Calcium + Vitamin D3 tablets. Will keep you all updated.

Thanks.
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PostSubject: Re: Rescued another pigeon, perhaps with PMV :(   Thu Jul 15, 2010 10:41 am

Appreciate the update, Dev.
I am so happy the little one seems to be improving YESS!!
Positive thoughts continue.


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Please watch over us while we fly,
Keeping us safe from the predators that share the sky.

If we become ill or injured in any way,
Please lead us to safety where we are welcome to stay.
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PostSubject: Re: Rescued another pigeon, perhaps with PMV :(   Thu Jul 15, 2010 11:00 am

That's wonderful, Dev. cheers
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PostSubject: Re: Rescued another pigeon, perhaps with PMV :(   Thu Jul 15, 2010 2:10 pm

Thank you for the update, Dev, that's wonderful news! Thrilled
Very best wishes!
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PostSubject: Re: Rescued another pigeon, perhaps with PMV :(   Sat Jul 17, 2010 10:12 am

I just got to thinking...maybe it would help if you put the seeds in a deeper small bowl rather than on the floor of the cage. That way, if the bird tries to pick some up, it will be easier for him.
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PostSubject: Re: Rescued another pigeon, perhaps with PMV :(   Sun Jul 18, 2010 12:23 am

Hi Charis,

I will try that out today. He is definitely getting better but slowly. From yesterday he has been refusing to sit in his box, he wants to be left free in the room. He is able to walk well, but the moment I try to go near him, he gets tensed and his convulsion starts. I managed to take a video of his behavior, I will upload that here shortly.

Thanks.
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PostSubject: Re: Rescued another pigeon, perhaps with PMV :(   Sun Jul 18, 2010 6:09 am

Dev i think you should start referring to 'the Bird' by his name that i have kept for him, which is, Birdie That's too funny
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PostSubject: Re: Rescued another pigeon, perhaps with PMV :(   Sun Jul 18, 2010 9:10 am

priya wrote:
Dev i think you should start referring to 'the Bird' by his name that i have kept for him, which is, Birdie That's too funny

It's good to know he has a name.
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PostSubject: Re: Rescued another pigeon, perhaps with PMV :(   Sun Jul 18, 2010 1:04 pm

Dev - I wish so very much that Birdie is recovering with all your loving help. Sending you love and energy and the best for the little pigeon angel!
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