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 Help! My little pigeon is seriously ill!

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Matilda
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PostSubject: Re: Help! My little pigeon is seriously ill!   Sun Oct 31, 2010 6:55 pm

Yes...do stop the metronidazole.
Continue the baytril to complete 10 days.
Do get a heating pad that works because you may need it in the future and having one handy, may save a life in jepordy.

I'm glad Comis was up and walking about. cheers Do you always keep food near her? It would be a good idea to do so.
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Teresa
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PostSubject: Re: Help! My little pigeon is seriously ill!   Sun Oct 31, 2010 7:13 pm

It's great news that Comis is doing better! Great job cheers
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Irene
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PostSubject: Re: Help! My little pigeon is seriously ill!   Mon Nov 01, 2010 6:27 pm

Hi, I have good news again! :-) Today Comis ate almost all the seeds in her plate by herself! She was more lively, she had some walks on the floor and she exercised her wings. However she still can't fly and she is lame... What do you think, will she ever recover completely or will she remain disabled for all her life...? Today I noticed that the part of her beak where the nostrils are was a bit soft, is this natural or is it a bad sign? She didn't have any discharge from the nostrils though... Today I went to the pharmacy again, but it was closed because it was a religious feast... What bad luck! I hope tomorrow it opens at last! I also want to buy a heating pad and it's not easy to find one either...! As for Comis, I have put a plate with seeds and a container with water next to her so she can eat and drink whenever she likes! She is getting better and better, slowly but steadily! Let's hope she overcomes this bad illness completely...!
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Matilda
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PostSubject: Re: Help! My little pigeon is seriously ill!   Mon Nov 01, 2010 6:39 pm

Irene...that's good news.
Pigeon do really well with a deeper dish with seeds, rather than a plate. A deeper dish, like a little crock filled, is much easier for them especially when they are perfecting their eating skills.
Young pigeons do have softer beaks than adults and they firm up as the pigeon matures. Is it possible you only noticed? How about a picture.
I do think Comis will recover completely. My only concern is that there may be a antibiotic that is more sensitive to the bacteria that made her sick. Let's see how she is after the baytril course is complete....okay?
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Irene
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PostSubject: Re: Help! My little pigeon is seriously ill!   Tue Nov 02, 2010 5:32 am

Charis, I hope she recovers completely as you say! Thank you for your encouraging words! I noticed Comis' beak because these days I'm touching it a lot as I'm handfeeding her... I'm glad that her soft nostrils are normal for her age! Here are two pictures of Comis with her plate in the bathroom this morning... If you think that I should get her a deeper plate, I'll do so. The only problem is that she likes to step inside her plate so if its sides are high she turns it over more easily and all the seeds are scattered on the floor... I used to put her seeds in a smaller and deeper container, but she always turned it over... She is a very careless baby... :-)








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NiteOwl
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PostSubject: Re: Help! My little pigeon is seriously ill!   Tue Nov 02, 2010 5:52 am

You can buy small crockery bowsl that are made for small pets. They are heavy and don't easily turn over. She climbs in because it is wide. If it is not as wide, she normally won't climb in. These are good for water also.
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NiteOwl
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PostSubject: Re: Help! My little pigeon is seriously ill!   Tue Nov 02, 2010 5:56 am

Small crocks can look something like this.

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Matilda
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PostSubject: Re: Help! My little pigeon is seriously ill!   Tue Nov 02, 2010 7:46 am

NiteOwl wrote:
Small crocks can look something like this.


That's exactly what I mean.

Pigeons like to step up onto something and perch. If you give her a brick, I bet she'll like it.

I'm sorry but I can't tell much about her beak form the picture.
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AZWhitefeather
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PostSubject: Re: Help! My little pigeon is seriously ill!   Tue Nov 02, 2010 8:23 am

YESS!! I'm so happy to hear that Comis is doing so well, Irene. Thrilled

If you can't find a heating pad, placing a low wattage lamp directed towards Comis' enclosure should work just as well.


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Irene
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PostSubject: Re: Help! My little pigeon is seriously ill!   Tue Nov 02, 2010 2:35 pm

Thank you for your good suggestions! I hope I can find crocks like the ones you showed me! Here in Venice you can't find anything except for souvenirs and fishing boots for the floods...! There are only two shops that sell accessories for animals and they have things only for cats and dogs... I must go for shopping out of the town in the mainland as soon as I find a free day! As for the brick, I don't know if Comis would be able to climb on it because she is still lame and can't fly... She can only jump from my lap to the floor, that's her only 'achievement'... As for the photos, unfortunately they are of very bad quality because I'm taking them with the camera of my mobile phone... I have a digital camera which takes much better photos and more detailed, but I can't find the wire that connects it to the computer (for transferring the pictures), so right now I can use only my mobile phone camera... Anyway, the beak of Comis looks normal, but the feathers that are under her beak have a 'wet' look and they are thin so you can see her skin through... I hope she is just dirty because I'm handfeeding her and that it is not anything that has to do with her illness... By the way, I have some great news to tell you! I managed to find Nystatin!! I was just reading the instructions... The box says: 'Mycostatin / Nistatina, 100 ml'. The only thing that worries me is that it also contains 'ethilic alcool'... Isn't that toxic to birds...? Not only that, but some other chemicals as well! It says that 1ml of the oral sospension contains: (active principal ingredient) nystatin 100.000 U.I, (other ingredients) 'saccrosio, glicerolo, sodio saccarinato, carmellosa sodica, sodio fosfato bibasico, metile para-idrossibenzoato, propile para-idrossibenzoato, alcool etilico', aroma resembling that of cherry, oil of peppermint, 'cinnamaldeide', and purified water. Is that the right medicine? It is actually for humans, will it be safe for little Comis? I hope it doesn't cause her any side effects...! How many ml should I give her and how often...? Or would it be better to put apple vinegar in her water which is more natural...? What do you think?
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Matilda
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PostSubject: Re: Help! My little pigeon is seriously ill!   Tue Nov 02, 2010 3:37 pm

That's the medicine. It's a human medicine. Give her 0.3ml [cc] 2 times a day.
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NiteOwl
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PostSubject: Re: Help! My little pigeon is seriously ill!   Tue Nov 02, 2010 3:41 pm

As for the ACV, that isn't going to cure anything. Acv will give his gut an acidic flora, which the bad bacterias don't like, and won't grow well in. It is used for a preventative to bad bacterias. It isn't going to cure anything. 1 or 2 Tablespoons to a gallon of water a couple of times a week. Or 1/4 to 1/2 Tablespoon to a quart of water.
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Matilda
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PostSubject: Re: Help! My little pigeon is seriously ill!   Tue Nov 02, 2010 3:42 pm

Oh...Irene...you may be able to find crocks in the store for dogs and cats and do try a brick . They are only a few inches tall and she may surprise you about perching on it.
Can she see the other pigeons during her convalescence? id not, you might try hanging a mirror near her so she can look at herself. May of us use the hand mirror we use to look at our hair or make up. They are not expensive to purchase here and the pigeons love them...especially the male pigeons.
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Irene
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PostSubject: Re: Help! My little pigeon is seriously ill!   Tue Nov 02, 2010 4:31 pm

Ok, shall I give it to her before or after eating? How can I measure 0.3ml...? Is it 1 drop? Shall I put it directly into her mouth or disolve it in her water? As for the crock and the brick, let's hope I can find them somewhere...!! Fortunately Comis is not alone... Next to her, there is the cage where her parents Meli and Anemoni have made their nest so she sees them all the time! I take her in my hand and bring her closer to them, so that she can almost touch them, but they don't want her anymore, because they have their new baby and they are very aggressive! Her father 'growls' at her but today she 'growled' back to him with her infantile voice and made me laugh! She was so cute...! She is so little but she puffed up and pretended to be very strong and fearless...! She is getting on better with Arapis (her older brother) than with her parents... Today she tried to kiss him but I didn't let her so as not to trasmit her illness to him too... She likes being close to the other birds and she is always looking at them with curiosity! They are also watching her and they are jealous of her when I feed her... :-) As for the mirror, there is a big one with a shelf near her blanket and I often put her on the shelf to look at her image, but she is not interested... She prefers looking at the real birds... She understands that the mirror is just an illusion... She is a very intelligent baby... :-)
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Matilda
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PostSubject: Re: Help! My little pigeon is seriously ill!   Tue Nov 02, 2010 4:49 pm

Do you have 1cc syringe or 1 ml syringe? It's approximately i/3 of one cc syringe.
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Matilda
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PostSubject: Re: Help! My little pigeon is seriously ill!   Tue Nov 02, 2010 4:52 pm

There are 20 drops in 1 cc or 1 ml...so if you gave her 6-7 drops, that would be adequate.
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Teresa
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PostSubject: Re: Help! My little pigeon is seriously ill!   Tue Nov 02, 2010 7:20 pm

I think you've just confirmed what Charis said, about Comis being a girl, when you said she wasn't interested in the mirror -- a boy pigeon would have been!
It's great to know that the baby is getting better and better. She's adorable! I hope you find the cable for your digital camera soon, as Comis is so photogenic -- and they're so cute at that age!

In a city that only has souvenirs, you may still find a useful container for birdseed, even if it is a deep, heavy ashtray! Or, if you're feeling really decadent and inclined to treat Comis like a princess, how about a feeding bowl made of real Murano glass?
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Matilda
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PostSubject: Re: Help! My little pigeon is seriously ill!   Tue Nov 02, 2010 7:23 pm

Teresa wrote:
I think you've just confirmed what Charis said, about Comis being a girl, when you said she wasn't interested in the mirror -- a boy pigeon would have been!
It's great to know that the baby is getting better and better. She's adorable! I hope you find the cable for your digital camera soon, as Comis is so photogenic -- and they're so cute at that age!

In a city that only has souvenirs, you may still find a useful container for birdseed, even if it is a deep, heavy ashtray! Or, if you're feeling really decadent and inclined to treat Comis like a princess, how about a feeding bowl made of real Murano glass?


What an idea!
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Irene
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PostSubject: Re: Help! My little pigeon is seriously ill!   Wed Nov 03, 2010 2:46 pm

... shall I buy her a Murano glass bowl...?!! Hmmm... if I was also a princess I would surely do!! I would also get her a golden container for her water!LOL Well, some months ago, I actually bought a Murano glass egg and I put it in the plate of Orfeas and Kirki (the brother and sister of Comis) to keep it steady so as not to turn over when they step in, can you believe it..?! As we say in Greece (my home country), 'madness does not go to the mountains...' (it comes to us... )

Today I went to the mainland out of Venice and I got two plastic bowls for Comis like the ones that you showed me! I'm very glad I found them! But I couldn't find a heating pad anywhere... aah...!! But I'll continue searching...!

I gave Comis her 0,3ml dose of Nystatin, she didn't 'appreciate' it at all but she drank it... So shall I give her 0,3ml in the morning and another 0,3ml in the evening? Did I understand well? I gave her the medicine half an hour before feeding her and giving her her Baytril dose, did I do well or should I have waited for a longer time before giving her the Baytril dose...? What do you think?

Comis was very quiet today, she only walked a little bit and then she got tired and stood motionless like a vase, but it may be because the weather was bad and it was a dark miserable day... However, she enjoyed very much being cuddled by me... I put her on my lap, I was stroking her head and she relaxed so much that she almost fell to her side with her eyes closed... She rubbed her head on my fingers and she was so cute! I should take more photos of her with my digital camera but I realized that I forgot its wire in the house of a friend who lives in another town... What a disaster...! I'm always losing important things...! As my father says, I have 'my head among the clouds' or actually... among pigeons! Cute Dove Smile

So you are all sure that Comis is a little girl... but she is certainly not a typical woman, because she doesn't spend much time in front of the mirror, she doesn't care much about her appearance...LOL

Here are two photos of her today, again in her blanket, which she really loves...





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Matilda
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PostSubject: Re: Help! My little pigeon is seriously ill!   Wed Nov 03, 2010 2:56 pm

Yes...2 doses of the nystatin...one inthe morning and one in the evening. It doesn't need to be before food...you can give the nystatin right before you feed if you want.
I'm glad you found the bowls. They make feeding much easier.

I'm worried that she is inactive. Do her feet feel cold? How many days has she been on the baytril? It seems like she should be about finised with it.

Yep...it's pigeon boys that enjoy admiring themself in the mirror, rather than the pigeon girls. .
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Irene
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PostSubject: Re: Help! My little pigeon is seriously ill!   Wed Nov 03, 2010 3:47 pm

Thank you Charis... I'm also worried for her because she is still not well although it is the 10th day she is taking Baytril and she has completed the circle of her antibiotics... Yesterday she seemed more lively, but today she looked melancholic and she didn't eat any seeds (or perhaps I didn't see her because I was out of the house for most of the day...). I don't think her feet are cold but I'll check again in the morning. However the joints of her left egg are still swollen... Poor baby, could it be that the antibiotics are not working on her...? What shall we do now...? Shall I continue giving her Nystatin two times a day and see what happens? For how many days should I give her Nustatin?

How is your Romey doing? I hope she is getting better...!
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PostSubject: Re: Help! My little pigeon is seriously ill!   Wed Nov 03, 2010 3:55 pm

Irene...I would give her nystatin for 5 more days.

Do you think she is getting enough food? How many poops each day?It's critical she is warm and gets enough food.

The next step is to take her to a vet that treats birds and one specifically that has experience with pigeons and have the doctor do a culture of her poop. It won't do any good though until she has been off the baytril for at least 7 days.
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PostSubject: Re: Help! My little pigeon is seriously ill!   Wed Nov 03, 2010 4:34 pm

Charis, the vet who had seen Comis before she became 'paralysed' and needed urgent help had suggested me to do a culture of the poops of all my pigeons to see what illnesses there are around... So these days I'm collecting their poops and putting them in a container and I'll bring them to her. I have also kept the poops of Comis when he was in a critical condition (the photos of which I had also posted in this forum). I hope I can see the vet tomorrow! She had also suggested me to do a blood test to Comis but I was afraid that she might hurt her and harmed her, so I said no... Do you think I should allow her to do the blood test? The results would be known in 4-5 days... Blood tests are very expensive! A 'simple' one would be about 50 euro and a detailed one would be about 100 euro. But if the blood test could save Comis' life I would give the money willingly! I'm just afraid that she may make a mistake and kill my poor baby...! I'm trembling with fear... I don't know what to do... But first I'll take the container of the poops to the vet to see if she finds any viruses, bacteria, or anything else in them this time... Apart from her, I don't know any other vet who deals with birds here in Venice... The vet I visit now is outside the town... But I'll check on the internet and on the yellow pages to see if I can find an ornithologist, someone who specializes in birds...
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PostSubject: Re: Help! My little pigeon is seriously ill!   Wed Nov 03, 2010 4:49 pm

When you bring droppings to be checked, they must be fresh. You would collect fresh droppings just before you go to the vet.
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PostSubject: Re: Help! My little pigeon is seriously ill!   Wed Nov 03, 2010 4:51 pm

Irene...don't collect poop while they are on antibiotics because it will mask the bacteria and be a waste of your money. In this case anyway, you would want to do Comis' poop separately since she is sick. Even with hers. it will need to wait a least a week or nothing will show up and you will wast your money and achieve nothing.

Start with poop and if nothing show, then do blood. In the phone book you can look for an Avian vet or a vet that treats exhotics.
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