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 About my pigeon who missed his canker medication

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Christina



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PostSubject: Thanks heaps for that    Tue May 10, 2011 7:55 am

Hello, and thank you all so very much for that, I really appreciate it a lot :-) Today they rang and said that my bird will spend the rest of his stay at the avain vet. They are so very kind, they said that for alomst the same price as the bird boarding place, my pigeon can stay at the avian vet for a bit, because he took off weight because he is not eating, so they are going to force feed him. They are so very kind indeed. They said he might not be eating as he might have a sore mouth or because the painkillers are making him drowsy, so they are stopping the painkillers as today is the last day of all his medications for the one week lot of medications, so now I am waiting for the avian vet to ring me and tell me what next

Do you think maybe he isn't eating now because he misses me? I sure miss him too. At the start of his stay, they said he was eating well. They said they think the canker is gone now, but the avain vet has to see him and check him properly, so in the next day or two the avian vet will ring me back

When I bring my pigeon home, can I put him straight back into the flock, and then treat the whole group for one week with the powered stuff, ot do I have to treat the whole flock before I put my pigeon back in?

Thanks heaps for telling me about that website, I have just emailed them and asked them how long it would take to get to Australia. I will also ask the avian vet if she can give me a prescription for it, so that I can start quicker to treat the whole flock.

Thanks heaps for your help, I really apreciate it a lot I love it/them and I will keep you all updated. :-)
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Teresa
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PostSubject: Re: About my pigeon who missed his canker medication   Tue May 10, 2011 8:58 pm

NiteOwl wrote:
Teresa wrote:
Sorry to poach this topic temporarily, but...

Jay, to treat my whole flock, would it be 1.8 teaspoons of ground 250mg Flagyl tablets for 2 lbs of feed?

Teresa, I had to call Charis, and she said to reduce it to 1 3/4 teaspoons for 2 lbs of feed.

Many thanks to you and to Charis! Thank You
One of my feral flock, Sweets, was struggling with a down feather in his beak yesterday, so I caught him and rid him of it -- that's wnen I saw two canker lesions! I was astonished, as he showed no other symptom. He's receiving individual treatment, but I want to medicate the whole flock too.
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NiteOwl
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PostSubject: Re: About my pigeon who missed his canker medication   Tue May 10, 2011 9:06 pm

You're welcome. Funny how things work out. If that bird hadn't been choking on a down feather, you wouldn't have known. Now you can treat them. It's great that you found out! Hope they're all fine again soon.
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Teresa
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PostSubject: Re: About my pigeon who missed his canker medication   Tue May 10, 2011 9:09 pm

Christina wrote:
When I bring my pigeon home, can I put him straight back into the flock, and then treat the whole group for one week with the powered stuff, ot do I have to treat the whole flock before I put my pigeon back in?

You'll need to treat the flock first, before letting your pigeon rejoin them, or he will get sick again.
Does he have a name, and did you take any photos of him? It would be nice to get to know him better...
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Teresa
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PostSubject: Re: About my pigeon who missed his canker medication   Tue May 10, 2011 9:32 pm

NiteOwl wrote:
You're welcome. Funny how things work out. If that bird hadn't been choking on a down feather, you wouldn't have known. Now you can treat them. It's great that you found out! Hope they're all fine again soon.

Thanks, I hope so too! Sweets is such a character, the only feral bold enough to have walked into my study by the door after flying into the veranda and walking right through the kitchen and the hall! That's too funny And I don't want my flock to be sick either.
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AZWhitefeather
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PostSubject: Re: About my pigeon who missed his canker medication   Tue May 10, 2011 11:22 pm

Teresa wrote:

One of my feral flock, Sweets, was struggling with a down feather in his beak yesterday, so I caught him and rid him of it -- that's wnen I saw two canker lesions! I was astonished, as he showed no other symptom.

He's receiving individual treatment, but I want to medicate the whole flock too.

Serious EEK!! Lucky for Sweets you saw him struggling with that feather, Teresa.
Please keep us posted on how he's doing.

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Christina



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PostSubject: Thankls heaps for that    Wed May 11, 2011 7:48 am

Hello, and thanks heaps for that, I really appreciate it. His name is spot, and I will get a photo of him when he comes home, to show you all :-)

How long will I have to treat the rest of the flock for, before I can put him back in with them?

Can't I just put him back into the flock straight away, and then treat the whole flock including him at the same time, for a week?

Thanks heaps for your time, I really appreciate it so very much :-) cheers pigeon 1

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Christina



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PostSubject: I have a problem   Thu May 12, 2011 6:01 am


Hello, and thank you so very much for your help :-)

I seriously need advice about what to do next. Today I rang the avain vet and he said that my bird doesn not have canker any more- the canker has gone, but there is a problem he said- my pigeon has a hole in the roof of his mouth. He said the canker did that damage before I had taken my bird to the vet. The avian vet said that he is trying to get to the bottom of the hole, and he is getting lots of gunk out of the hole every day, but as yet he hasn't got to the bottom of the hole, so he deoesn't know how deep in the hole goes.

The avian vet said that if it is only a small hole and he can find the end of the hole of then my bird will be okay, but if the hole goes all the way to my birds skull then he will have to be put down the avain vet said.

Help! I don't want him to be put down, I want him to get better and come home with me, he is my best friend. What should I do? Can he still live happily if I take him home and he has a hole in the roof of his mouth? Can't they do a skin graft or somthing and repair the hole or something? I have been crying all day, what should I do?

THe vet said in 2 days he will know whether he can get to the bottom of the hole or not and so I am going in 2 days to seee my bird and to talk to the vet and to pay all the money to the vet and I hope I can take him home

THe vet said that if he keeps getting more and more gunk out of the hole and if he can't find the bottom of the hole then he will have to be put down because the only way to tell how deep the hole is would be to put him under anasthetic and to split his head open and have a look which is not good the avain vet said so it would be better if he put him down he said. I don't want to kill my best friend. What do you all think?

Thanks heaps for your help, I do appreciate it a lot
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Christina



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PostSubject: I have good news today!   Sat May 14, 2011 6:27 am

Hello, and thank you so VERY much for your help, I do appreciate it a lot :-) I have good news! Today the avain vet where he is staying, rang me up and told me that they found the end of the hole, and that now my pigeon will be fine they said. I am so happy! I think they said the hole only goes to the bone in the roof of his mouth. Is that a good thing, or is that still a bad hole? They said my pigeon is eating a lot and eating by himself, and that he loves peas and he is a real guts they said, he is eating all the peas. They said they will keep him for about 2 more days and then he can come home. Does that sound all good to you?

Thanks heaps for your time, I really appreciate it a lot
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AZWhitefeather
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PostSubject: Re: About my pigeon who missed his canker medication   Sat May 14, 2011 7:24 am

I'm glad everything is going well for the little one, Christina.
I wish the very best for him. Smile

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Please lead us to safety where we are welcome to stay.
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Christina



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PostSubject: Thanks heaps for that :-)   Sat May 14, 2011 7:41 am

Hello, and thank you so very much for that, I do appreciate it a lot :-)

Do you think he will still need to be on medication when he comes home? I guess the avaian vet will tell me when he gets discharged in a few days, but I was just wondering what you all think

I want to buy turbosole and put it in the whole flocks food and treat them all for one week- can I treat him again at the same time too, or would that be too much? The avian vet where he is now only sells ronizole and not turbosole. Is ronizole just as good, or should I catch the bus to the other avain vet Dr Walker who does sell turbosole? Are they both just as good as each other, or is one better than the other?

Thank you all so very much for your great advice, you all saved my birds life for sure, as I didn't know anything at all about canker and I thought he was cured after the very first 2 days at the vet. Now my bird is healthy and happy, thanks heaps to you all :-)

I will keep you all posted
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Teresa
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PostSubject: Re: About my pigeon who missed his canker medication   Sat May 14, 2011 9:54 pm

Christina wrote:
Do you think he will still need to be on medication when he comes home? I guess the avaian vet will tell me when he gets discharged in a few days, but I was just wondering what you all think

He will probably need more medication until the roof of his mouth has healed, but the vet will let you know.

Quote :
I want to buy turbosole and put it in the whole flocks food and treat them all for one week- can I treat him again at the same time too, or would that be too much? The avian vet where he is now only sells ronizole and not turbosole. Is ronizole just as good, or should I catch the bus to the other avain vet Dr Walker who does sell turbosole? Are they both just as good as each other, or is one better than the other?

STICK WITH THE RONIDAZOLE IN THE FOOD, otherwise the hit-and-miss treatment will make matters much worse, just like it did with your pigeon, and you'll be wasting money for nothing AND CREATING A NEW CRISIS.
Get it from your vet NOW AND START TREATMENT RIGHT AWAY, FOR 5 DAYS.
And DON'T RELEASE Spot UNTIL AFTER HE'S WELL AND THE FLOCK HAS FINISHED THE TREATMENT.
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Christina



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PostSubject: Thanks heaps for that :-)   Sun May 15, 2011 7:19 am

Hello, and thanks heaps for that , I reallay appreciate it a lot :-) I will do that exactly what you said. I had been thinking that if I release Spot I can treat him and the whole flock together at the same time, but that won't work huh?

Thanks heaps for your time, I do appreciate it a lot
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Teresa
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PostSubject: Re: About my pigeon who missed his canker medication   Sun May 15, 2011 9:39 am

Christina wrote:
Hello, and thanks heaps for that , I reallay appreciate it a lot :-) I will do that exactly what you said. I had been thinking that if I release Spot I can treat him and the whole flock together at the same time, but that won't work huh?
Thanks heaps for your time, I do appreciate it a lot

No, it wouldn't work, because the canker medication kills the canker that is there (but only if the treatment is completed) but it isn't a vaccine, so it doesn't protect a pigeon from being infected again.

Spot is still in a very fragile state, the canker in his sinus reached very deep into the tissue, and even when it is completely treated, remember he will still have a hole there for some time, and it would be only too easy for canker to infect it again, and the result would be terrible suffering for him, and probably death.

I read some of the advice you got about using DMSO to carry the medication into the hole itself. No, it can't be done with a cotton bud -- that would have worked if the problem was on the surface of his throat, but not in this case. Remember that that person said it had to be applied with a blunt needle or a catheter? That's a highly specialised procedure that many experienced carers wouldn't be able to perform, let alone someone who is unsure how to open a bird's beak without hurting him. My advice is don't even go there, let your vet do it.
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Christina



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PostSubject: Re: About my pigeon who missed his canker medication   Mon May 16, 2011 6:15 am

Hello, and thanks heaps for that, that's an excelelnt help all that advice, I really appreciate it, thanks so muchf for that :-) Today I went to the vet and picked up my pigeon :-) He wa so happy to see me and I was so happy to see him! The vet said he is better now, I have to give him ronivet for one more week. And I will treat the rest of the flock too, for one week. Can I put ronivet in porridge that I have soaked in water? Or is it better if I put in on birdseed that I have coated with a bit of oil to make it stick? Thanks heaps for your help, and my pigeon says to tell you all thank you very much for your great advice which saved his life :-) pigeon 1

I have a question about the dose of ronivet- the avian vet wrote that for the ronivet-S powder that he gave me, that I should put half a scoop scoop which is half a gram of the powder in every 1 kilogram of birdseed, or one scoop which is 1 gram in 1 litre of water. Does that sound like the correct amount? Because earlier in this thread, someone said that I nned to put a bigger amount of powder in, but maybe th epowder they told me about was a different brand or a different strngth or something. The one I have here is called Ronivet-S by the brand vetafarm, and the bottle says it is 60mg/g


Would you happen to know how much oil I should use to coat 1 kilogram of seeds with before I mix the ronivet in, to make it stick?

Also, do you think I am better off using fine bird seed, or the coarser wild bird seed mix?

Thanks heaps for your time, I do appreciate it a lot

I won't use anything to clean the hole, thanks heaps for telling me that. The vet showed me the hole today before I took my pigeon home. The vet said he found the end of the hole so it is not an open wound, it looks like it has pink skin inside it. THe vet opened my pigeons mouth and showed me inside, so I could see the hole and where it is, and it is on the roof of his mouth, it is like a long oval shape just on the roof of his mouth, and I could see pink skin inside of it, no blood or flesh or anything inside it. I asked the vet if I shoudl clean it with antiseptic or saline sometimes and he said no, not to do anything to it. Does that sound good?

You should have seen how happy he was to see him! I held him on my chest and patted his head with my finger and he was so happy and I was so happy! Smile When I put him in his cage, he started pecking around in the bottom of his cage, like he knew we were going home, and when we got home, I gave him porridge soaked in water, in the laundry where it is safe, and a bowl of water, and he ate all the porridge, he loves porridge :-)

What else should I do to make him safe and happy and well?

Thanks heaps for your help, I do appreciate it a lot
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Teresa
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PostSubject: Re: About my pigeon who missed his canker medication   Tue May 17, 2011 10:02 pm

Christina wrote:

I have a question about the dose of ronivet- the avian vet wrote that for the ronivet-S powder that he gave me, that I should put half a scoop scoop which is half a gram of the powder in every 1 kilogram of birdseed, or one scoop which is 1 gram in 1 litre of water. Does that sound like the correct amount? Because earlier in this thread, someone said that I nned to put a bigger amount of powder in, but maybe th epowder they told me about was a different brand or a different strength or something. The one I have here is called Ronivet-S by the brand vetafarm, and the bottle says it is 60mg/g

So that's Ronivet 6%, right?
The amount prescribed by your vet to put on the seed is only enough for one pigeon, not a whole flock. When I medicate adult pigeons, I give them 30mg of metronidazole a day. Now, if your powder only has 60mg/g, half a gram of powder only contains 30mg of ronidazole -- only enough for one pigeon!

Getting back to the amounts Jay posted, 2 teaspoons/2 lbs of food/day for 5-7 days for 20% strength. So, for 6% strength, you will need 6 1/2 teaspoons per 2 pounds of food, or 7 1/4 level teaspoons for 1 Kg of food per day for 5 to 7 days.
It's a much higher dosage than your vet suggested, but if all the information you posted is correct, it should be right.

As for the food, a good quality pigeon seed mix is best. You don't need a lot of oil, 1 teaspoon of oil should be enough to make the seeds slightly sticky, so the powder sticks to them and the pigeons eat the med together with the food.

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Christina



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PostSubject: Re: About my pigeon who missed his canker medication   Wed May 18, 2011 9:33 am

Hello, and thanks heaps for that great advice, I really appreciate it

When I look at him, I swear it looks like he is smiling, do birds smile?
He sure does look super happy at any rate

After they have finished all their 7 day sof ronivet mediaction, do you think I should put apple cider vinegar in their water twice a week? I read somewhere online that it is an old trick used by pigeon fanciers and that apparantly it really works to keep canker out of the flock- something to do with acid and alkaline or something. What do you all think?

Thank you so VERY much for all your help, I do appreciate it a lot :-) Hi there/Bye

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Teresa
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PostSubject: Re: About my pigeon who missed his canker medication   Wed May 18, 2011 12:07 pm

Yes, apple cider vinegar on the drinking water twice a week is a very good preventative of protozoal infections, as protozoans don't do well in the more acidic environment. So that's a great idea to help them stay healthy.
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PostSubject: Re: About my pigeon who missed his canker medication   Wed May 18, 2011 9:20 pm

Teresa wrote:
7 1/4 level teaspoons for 1 Kg of food per day for 5 to 7 days.

I got some information today from Charis, comparing the dosages of Metronidazole and Ronidazole. According to that, the Ronidazole dosage is between 1/4 and 1/6 of the one used for Metronidazole, so if you are using Ronivet 6%, between 1 1/4 and 1 3/4 teaspoons for 1Kg of food is enough.

I've just crossed out the recommended dosage above, because Charis sent me some very detailed information about the type of Ronivet you've got, including the fact that the scoop that comes with the package has a capacity of 3800mg and not 500mg as you'd posted. So, guess what, just follow your vet's prescription! Smile


Last edited by Teresa on Thu May 19, 2011 9:39 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : New info)
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Christina



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PostSubject: Thank you so much!   Thu May 19, 2011 8:58 am

Hello, and thank yo so VERY much for that , I really appreciate it a lot :-) Thanks heaps for telling me how much ronidazole to put in the birds food, that is a great help! To make it work better, do you think I should treat the birds with ot for 2 weeks instead of one week?

Thanks heaps too for letting me know that apple cider vinegar is good to put in their water twice a week. Is there any particular brand or type of apple cider vinegar that I should use in their water?

I sure am learning a lot about pigeons from what happened to my pigeon and from all your great advice that saved him.

Now if I ever see a pigeon with that again in my life, I will know what to do to help them. And I won't end up spening over a thousand dollars like I did this time. Now that I know what to do, I spent $1,100 to get rid of the canker, but he is worth it as I love him



This is how it happened and what I did wrong, that I thought was right at the time: but now I have learnt and realised what I did wrong so I wont do it wrong again. Here is what I did wrong that I will not do wrong again:

1) The first wrong thing I did was- it was late Sunday when everything else was closed, when I saw that he looked sick so I took him to a normal vet who was not a bird vet, which was a mistake as all they did was give him an antibiotic injection which I can see now why that did not help at all- total cost for that- $110 including taxis there and back. I should have waited till the next morning to go to an avain vet but I didnt knwo if it could wait till morning

2) So the next day I took him to an avain vet which I am glad of. But then he stayed there for 2 days and the next thing that went wrong was that that avain vet was closed for the Easter long weekend which was 5 day slong including the Anzac Day public holiday, so they said I had to take him back home for the long weekend as they were closed. Next time I will find an avain vet that doesn't close on public holidays. The totla cost for those 2 days he stayed there plus the medicine I took hom was $400

3) the next thing I did wrong was that I did not know that what he had then was so dangerous and spreadable as I had never heard of it before, so I felt sorry for him and let him out of the cage. I thought that since he looked better after 2 days at the vet, that he must be better. But then he ran away from me and I couldn't give him his medicine. Next time I wil know that I must keep them in the cage till they have bad all their medicine and they are better

4) Then after Easter I took him back to the avain vet where I got told off for not giving him all the doses of medicine (which I totally understand why the vet got like that, now that I look back knwoing what I know now). So I had to get all the medicines again. Total cost for all that" $97

5)THe next thing I did was took him to a bird boarding house for one week which I am very grateful for all their help they were the best and they gave him all his medicine and looked after him and when he stopped eating they took him to the avain vet. How I appreciate their help, I don't regret that at all. Total cost: $22 a day x 8 days, plus extra I paid for pellets

6) Then I paid the avain vet where they took him, for him to stay for 6 more days while they cleaned out all the muck from the hole in the roof of his mouth and got him to start eating again. They said he stopped eating because of the mcuk in the roof of his mouth. Total cost for that: $274
I am glad he went there though as they are so kind and excellent, I love them for how much they helped my pigeon

7)the next thing is I will buy a big 100 gram tub of ronivet, as I just have a small bottle here that I got from them, and I will keep the extra so that I will be prepared in my bird first aid kit

And I also bought a bottle of coccivet from the internt in case in ended up being cocciadois or something like that which was $50 including postage


So, that is how it all happned. I am in debt now but it was well worth it for my beautiful pigeon. Now I know what to do in the future. Another mistake that I made was that I didn't know that pigeons get cold when they are sick, and I had put him in a cage back then but he was shivering , now I know why, there was nothing to keep him warm. I did not know at all that when birds are ill they need heat. Thanks heaps for telling me that

So, I just wanted to say thank you VERY much once again to you all for your very excellent help and advice, you sure did all save my bird :-)

Can you all think of any other lessons or mistakes that I can learn from this, that I haven't mentioned?

Thanks heaps for your time, I do appreciate it a lot :-)



Last edited by Christina on Thu May 19, 2011 9:02 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Added one morre sentence)
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Teresa
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PostSubject: Re: About my pigeon who missed his canker medication   Thu May 19, 2011 9:53 pm

Hi Christina,

Mistakes are problematic and they can be very expensive, as you pointed out. But it takes courage to admit to making them, and it takes a lot of dedication, determination and maturity to do everything in your power to ensure they won't happen again. So well done and keep up the good work!

Please note that I have corrected my previous post about the dosage to give the flock. The scoop that comes with the Ronivet is almost 8 times bigger than the 500mg you mentioned, so the amount your vet prescribed is fine! One week of treatment should be enough for the flock.

You can use any type of apple cider vinegar.

I hope that Spot continues to improve rapidly, and please remember not to release him until the flock have finished their treatment!
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Christina



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PostSubject: Thanks heaps for that :-)   Fri May 20, 2011 9:45 am

Hello, and thanks heaps for that, I do appreciate it a lot :-)

I can see where taht saying comes from "you learn from your mistakes" I sure have learnt a lot!

Can I treat all the birds for 2 weeks instead of 1 week with the ronivet- so it can work better? Or is that dangerous and not helpful at all?

Thanks heaps for your time, I do appreciate it too much! pigeon 1
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Teresa
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PostSubject: Re: About my pigeon who missed his canker medication   Fri May 20, 2011 7:46 pm

The standard treatment is for 1 week. It's not a good idea to treat for 2 weeks, especially as not all the pigeons will have canker.
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Christina



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PostSubject: Thanks heaps for that    Sat May 21, 2011 8:48 am

Hello, and thanks heaps for that, I will only treat them for one week then :-) Smile

How long should I wait so I can treat them again, is there a set frequency that I should treat the whole flock again?

My pigeon looks really happy :-) Today he ate birdseed out of my hand and he had one foot on the ground and the other foot on my hand. How cute he is :-)

pigeon 1

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PostSubject: Re: About my pigeon who missed his canker medication   Sat May 21, 2011 5:18 pm

It's great Spot is feeling better! Are you keeping him in the garage?

Have you started treating the flock?
There isn't a set sequence for flock treatment. Keep an eye on them, but don't medicate them again until they need it.
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