Question about Baby Feral

A couple of the squeakers that I raised & released came "home" and built a nest on top of some air conditioning ductwork in an empty building. This is the first picture I was able to take of the baby on January 17. I think the baby is two or three days old in this picture.

https://2img.net/h/i787.photobucket.com/albums/yy153/jimc2000/baby1.jpg

I can't actually see the baby from this angle -- I had to put my camera in the hole where Mom & Dad get into the nest and take pictures until the baby ended up in the camera's field of view.

There's a gap between a beam and a pipe that you can see on the left side of that first photo, and I've been looking through that gap with a flashlight to check on the baby:

https://2img.net/h/i787.photobucket.com/albums/yy153/jimc2000/llbaby3.jpg

https://2img.net/h/i787.photobucket.com/albums/yy153/jimc2000/llbaby2.jpg

Over the last couple of days, the baby has been making a lot of noise moving around. He's just sort of flopping around with his wings and legs splayed out, like you see here:

https://2img.net/h/i787.photobucket.com/albums/yy153/jimc2000/llbaby1.jpg

Is this behavior normal? The parents seem to be ignoring it... (The last three photos were taken today, January 23.)

No ...that doesn't look good. The baby appears tp have splay leg and needs to be treated ASAP. Is there a way you can get the baby out?

It will be a bit of a production, but yes, I can get the baby out. Once I've got him, what do I do next?

Take a picture of him so we can get a good look at the legs.

I'm going to have to have to get a buddy over there to help out. We'll have to dismantle the ductwork and carefully lower the part with the nest. I assume that things can't get worse if I wait 'till the morning to do this?

Unless the baby is in immediate danger, certainly it can wait until morning.

I was looking at this link:

https://pij-n-angels.forumotion.net/pigeon-and-dove-illnesses-injuries-their-symptoms-and-treatment-f11/correcting-splayed-legs-t22.htm

which seems to give the basic treatment options.

Should my plan be to permanently remove the baby from the nest, and raise him, or can I plan to put him back in the nest after I have repositioned and bound his legs?

jimc2000 wrote:

I was looking at this link:

https://pij-n-angels.forumotion.net/pigeon-and-dove-illnesses-injuries-their-symptoms-and-treatment-f11/correcting-splayed-legs-t22.htm

which seems to give the basic treatment options.

Should my plan be to permanently remove the baby from the nest, and raise him, or can I plan to put him back in the nest after I have repositioned and bound his legs?

Yes...that should be the plan. We will talk you through it.

Um... which part were you saying "yes" to -- raising him or putting him back in the nest?

Raising him. If the legs need to be taped and adjusted frequently, it doesn't seem practical that you return him to the nest.

That's right. If his legs must be bound, unfortunately you cannot return him, as they have to be checked daily and adjusted. Also, probably put into a deep dish or something so that he isn't just sitting on a hard surface.

Great eye on checking that little baby, Jim.

I agree with the others, he's got to be removed from the nest and the legs tended to.
for all the help you give these sweet pijjies.

After it got dark, and Mom and Dad pigeon were sleeping, I got the baby out of the nest. There wasn't much left of the actual nesting material, since the baby had been thrashing around in it and scattering it. Dad sleeps near the nest entrance, and I woke him up when I set up some lights and started working. Dad didn't get alarmed by any of this, although he seemed irritated to be woken up. I'd like to think that Dad trusts me, since I raised him from when he was a squeaker. Of course, maybe he was just too sleepy to care...

I made a new "nest" for the baby with a basket woven from wooden twigs (a friend found it at a local Good Will store) and some moss for making displays of artificial flowers (the parents had used a little bit of this in the original nest.) These seemed like safe natural materials, but if I've done something dumb, like using stuff that baby pigeons are allergic to, someone please tell me.

Photos of the splayed legs and the "nest" are here:

https://2img.net/h/i787.photobucket.com/albums/yy153/jimc2000/splay3.jpg
https://2img.net/h/i787.photobucket.com/albums/yy153/jimc2000/splay2.jpg
https://2img.net/h/i787.photobucket.com/albums/yy153/jimc2000/splay1.jpg

The sides of the basket-nest are too tall for the baby to get out of at his current size. If he stretches his neck, he can see over the top edge.

Now that everyone can see the current situation with the baby's legs, I would appreciate advice on how best to proceed. I can take more pictures from different angles, if needed.

In the mean time, I put the basket-nest back up where the original pigeon-made nest was. The Dad pigeon watched this process with a bit of agitation, but no real distress. I showed him the baby in the new nest before I put it back up where the original nest was (actually about a foot to the right and half a foot forward of where the original nest was.) I'm hoping Mom & Dad pigeon might still feed the baby. To understand the location of the original nest and the basket-nest, you can compare these photos:

https://2img.net/h/i787.photobucket.com/albums/yy153/jimc2000/basket1.jpg
https://2img.net/h/i787.photobucket.com/albums/yy153/jimc2000/basket2.jpg

with this one from about 5 days ago:

https://2img.net/h/i787.photobucket.com/albums/yy153/jimc2000/originalnest.jpg

If the parents want to continue to feed the baby, can they still do it while he's in the basket-nest? I mean is it physically possible -- can the parent and the baby get their heads into the right position for feeding with the edge of the basket in the way?

I set things up so that I can now get to the area of the nest with a ladder and some awkward stretching. If the baby stays in the basket, and neither parent does anything drastic, I should be able to take the basket-nest (with baby inside) in and out of the original nesting area rather easily after I get the baby's legs positioned and bound (hopefully with lots of advice from everyone here...) My biggest worry is that the legs are both spread so far apart. Do I have to do this in stages, like move them an inch or so closer each day?

For the moment, I'll assume the worst-case scenario: that I'm going to have to feed the baby and raise him. I've heard about tube-feeding, but have never done it. So, in addition to some instructions on how to treat the splayed legs, I would also hope to impose on folks for a "shopping list" of, not just the stuff I need to fix the legs, but also anything I'll need to feed and care for the baby, in case Mom and Dad abandon him in his new basket-nest. I'll pick all that stuff up in the morning before I take the baby (hopefully still in his basket-nest) down for treatment.

For treating splay leg, I read this:
http://www.duckpolice.org/BirdWeb/PigeonResourceWeb/splayleg.html

To learn about tube feeding, I read this:
http://www.duckpolice.org/BirdWeb/PigeonResourceWeb/TubeFeedWeb/handfeedpigeon1.html

Is there anything else I need to know?

Based on reading those articles, this is the list I came up with for stuff I need -- I'd be grateful if anyone could add any items I might have overlooked. Hopefully I can get the things I don't have (most of which I've never heard of before) at PetSmart or PetCo. If not, maybe someone here could suggest an alternate?

Stuff I need to get:

For Splayed Leg Treatment:
vet tape (self-adhesive gauze)
soft material to keep the legs apart (gauze, sponge, cotton)

For Tube Feeding:
Feeding syringe
catheter tubing (length? diameter?)
Handfeeding Formula

Stuff I already have:

For Splayed Leg Treatment:
Help from Pigeon Angels!

For Tube Feeding:
bowl and spoon for mixing the formula
warm water
T-shirt to wrap bird while feeding

Hi Jim,
Oh my goodness, that poor baby sure does have splayed legs. Bless his heart.

I love the basket you have for him.
I believe it would be best to keep the baby inside with you.

As far as tube feeding him, unless he has other issues, I think he's old enough to be fed with a baby bottle nipple or something similar.
Here's a picture of a squeaker a friend had that we fed with the nipple.



I realize your little one can't stand up like the one in the photo. but I think he can still do fine eating from the nipple.

From the second post on in the following thread there are some good visuals about treating splayed legs. I hope this helps some.
Correcting Splayed Legs

Please keep us posted on how thigns are coming along.

I don't mean to sound alarming but I've never seen a babies with splaying that bad

That little guy is going to take some intense work with his legs. Not sure if it was suggested but I would make a nest out of a box that is just a bit wider than he is. Cut it down so he can see over the top and use something on the bottom that gives him a good grip.
Keep him in this between handfeeding him. The box will help keep his hips & legs under him.

I've done this with pigeons & doves, not as badly splayed as this lil' guy, and its worked.

poor baby how is he doing now? Did you get a chance to feed him like what was mentioned?

EgypSwiftLady wrote:

I don't mean to sound alarming but I've never seen a babies with splaying that bad

That little guy is going to take some intense work with his legs. Not sure if it was suggested but I would make a nest out of a box that is just a bit wider than he is. Cut it down so he can see over the top and use something on the bottom that gives him a good grip.
Keep him in this between handfeeding him. The box will help keep his hips & legs under him.

I've done this with pigeons & doves, not as badly splayed as this lil' guy, and its worked.

Thank you for that...exactly what I would do as well. As a little baby, Angel came to me in a nest made out of heavy, thick foam rubber that had been cut to just her size with a cented indentation to give her just a bit of room to grow in to. It was also deep as 2, 3" pieces had been tapped together with duct tape. Using the heavy foam is easy to work with and in minutes, you can have any size needed.
I'll try to find it and take a picture.
I have received babies with splay so extreme it was difficult to imagine they would ever be able to walk or perch properly. The beauty of startin treatment when they are young is that in most instances there can be a full recovery.

EgypSwiftLady wrote:

I don't mean to sound alarming but I've never seen a babies with splaying that bad

That little guy is going to take some intense work with his legs. Not sure if it was suggested but I would make a nest out of a box that is just a bit wider than he is. Cut it down so he can see over the top and use something on the bottom that gives him a good grip.

Keep him in this between handfeeding him. The box will help keep his hips & legs under him.

I've done this with pigeons & doves, not as badly splayed as this lil' guy, and its worked.

Thanks, Robin.
I was going to mention that and it completely slipped my mind.
I would suggest a wash cloth or something similar that the baby can grip his nails into.

Hello everyone, and thanks for all the advice. I haven't tried feeding him yet -- the Dad pigeon was up in the nest area with the baby shortly after dawn (2 hours ago), and I wanted to give them a chance to work out the new nest issues. My local pet stores open in about 30 minutes and I'll make a run for supplies then. Hopefully the baby will have been fed by the time I take him down to fix his legs, but if not I'll try the baby-bottle-nipple approach.

Some questions:

When I reposition and bind his legs, do I need to do it in stages, over several days, or do I just put them in the right position all at once and bind them with the vet tape? Since they're so drastically spread out, I'm worried about whether or not they have enough range of motion to be moved into their correct positions all at once.

As far as making a box for him as suggested by EgypSwiftLady and Matilda, my first plan would be to use the nest basket I showed in the photos with a folded washcloth in the bottom and more moss packed in around the baby to support him like the foam rubber would. The moss is sort of rubbery and seems to be strong enough to support his weight. Does that seem like a viable plan?

I assume that, for the baby-bottle-nipple feeding, I just put some Handfeeding Formula in the nipple and stick his beak in it right? He'll do the rest?

How much should I feed him, and how often?

Before you do anything with the legs, how about you show us a picture first?

I hope dad will feed him too. Next feeding should be once the crop has emptied.
It's very important not to add new food to food already in the crop, as doing so can cause bacteria to grow. The amount will depent upon the size of the baby and will can give you a better idea once we see the picture.

Hi Matilda,

Here are the pictures, now that I've learned how to post images:

I'll be with you in just a moment. I'm on the phone right now.

Jim...the basket is too big because the baby can still put the legs out to the side. he needs to be in an area that offers support by keeping the legs at the side. You may be able to achieve this by adding a rolled up towel around the inside of the basket. Tape the ends of the towel so it won't come undone.
With vet tape, you do need to tape the legs back into a normal position. You likely will need someone to assist you by holding the baby.
Did the dad feed the baby?