We have another sick pigeon - canker (the Alice story part I)

You will not believe this but we have now another sick pigeon in our "hospital". I think our small appartment is really transforming into a pigeon hospital but what can I do?

Since a couple of days I was watching a little pijjie on our balcony, very small, surely a female who often perched aside from the others, a bit puffed up all the time (it seemed different from the others although it is very cold again at the moment), eating with the others but still - something was not right. 2 days ago I tried to catch her in order to check her out but she was still too quick and flew away.

Yesterday afternoon I finally could grab her with an old T-shirt and brought her in. I had realized that one of the pijjies - I did not know which one - had vomitted on the balcony (now I am sure it was she, little Alice).

First I checked her mouth - there was one yellow nodule but her whole mouth looked inflamed, little lesions as if there had been other canker nodules and it was really red not healthy pink. Her throat seemed to be clear though. So I gave her a Spartrix and a little bit of water. I checked her for any injuries, checked her plumage for parasites but everything seemed to be okay. Then I cleaned one of my tool boxes and put her in it with a warm water bottle beneath her box and let her have her peace.

An hour later I gave her 10 ml baby cereal. 2 hours later another 10 ml. I also gave her a little dish with seeds and a waterbowl of course. The bowl with the seeds was a mistake because in the night she tried to eat some of the seeds and started vomitting. So I had to clean everything again and took out the seed bowl.

Alice is such a sweet little pijjie, tiny and very emaciated. Her keel bone is really sticking out and I think she has only half the weight of little monster Pina although I haven't weighed her yet. I think she was in pain yesterday because she stood with her back and tail feathers bent down which is a symptoms for pain in the digestive tract. She was so calm and trusted me apparently with anything I did with her. She did not fight once. Amazing!

Today she seemed to feel much better. I gave her another Spartrix and fed her every 2 hours again with baby cereal. She drank quite a lot by herself so she is definitely not dehydrated. Her poop is quite mushy of course but considering that she is sick not too bad. Yesterday it smelled a tiny bit fishy so I knew it must be canker. She even started preening a bit today - so I think she might be recovered soon.

I will check her weight tomorrow and when the inflamation in her mouth is gone and she has put on some weight and when the temperatures outside are better again - then she will be released again.

Will keep you updated...

I'm sorry to hear about Alice (love the name).
It sounds like the first Spartrix has begun to work, given she is doing better.
It's also sounds like she may possibly have that darn canker further down in her system.

You're doing everything right, in my book.

Sending positive thoughts, and get well wishes to little Alice, your way.

Great work, Petra,
Whishes for fast recovery from me to Alice.

Thank you Cindy and Plamenh. I really hope this is going okay soon.

This morning, when I checked Alice's mouth, the inflammation has become much better i.e. her mouth was not as red as yesterday and looked nearly normal - so the Spartrix really seems to do its job.

I fed her 3 syringes à 20 ml baby cereal today and she was such a sweet patient. But today she was more vivid, made herself comfortable in her little box and even "defended" her little room when Willy started to go on the rampage. He did not like it at all that we have Alice now. He jumped on her "roof", trampled on top, jumped down then up again, tried to peck her through the wall and tried to get through the holed of the handles. He really cooed in dismay with his coarse voice and Alice cooed back as if she wanted to tell him to get lost.

So I take this as a good sign for her.
Btw - I weighed her this morning - she had 255 gr (Pina weighed 415 gr on Sunday :eek: ) - so she is really a tiny one and light as a feather. I hope she will recover soon. Her poop still looks awful:



but I guess the awful colour is still from undernourishment and the canker. Or what do YOU think?

And here is a pic from Alice herself:



Do you think I could try to give her a few pellets tomorrow in addition to her baby cereal? Or should I rather wait a few more days. I don't want her to vomit again.

How thick is the cereal you are feeding her, Petra?

Aww, poor thing. I have a dove named alice too.
Maybe she vomited because she ate too much? Once I rescued an emaciated cat and we had to give her frequent very small portions at first because if we let her she would eat too much and vomit. Maybe try letting her eat just a little on her own at first? Just an idea.

I feed mine 20 ml formula with honey twice a day and leave seeds in the dish to peck. Poop is bad color, but keep her on Spartrix for couple of days more to clean up internal infection.

Matilda wrote:

How thick is the cereal you are feeding her, Petra?

so thick that it just can be sucked up in the syringe and goes through the tube.

plamenh wrote:

I feed mine 20 ml formula with honey twice a day and leave seeds in the dish to peck. Poop is bad color, but keep her on Spartrix for couple of days more to clean up internal infection.

thank you Plamenh - I will do. Will see how her poop looks tomorrow. I have also realized today that her eyes do not look so sunken any more but much more vivid.

pigeonwriter wrote:

Matilda wrote:

How thick is the cereal you are feeding her, Petra?

so thick that it just can be sucked up in the syringe and goes through the tube.

That's good. Try adding some baby applesauce to the mix. It changes the ph balance in the crop, creating an environment more difficult for the canker to survive.

Appreciate the update, Petra.
I'm glad to hear Alice is 'perking' up.

Will continue to think positive thoughts.

Alice is such a sweet little bird Petra, you are doing an awesome job with her and all your other pijjie patients I am so glad you noticed little Alice and took her under your wing for timely treatment. Looks like Spartrix is a powerful med against canker...great to hear she is recovering and the lesions are healing up
Prayers and positive thoughts for her complete recovery

Matilda wrote:

pigeonwriter wrote:

Matilda wrote:

How thick is the cereal you are feeding her, Petra?

so thick that it just can be sucked up in the syringe and goes through the tube.

That's good. Try adding some baby applesauce to the mix. It changes the ph balance in the crop, creating an environment more difficult for the canker to survive.

Charis - the baby cereal is with fruit. I believe this should be enough to make the environment a bit more acidic. What do you think? Also I put organic apple vinegar in her drink as I do in all drink pots - always. Our pijjies on the balcony love this "vinegar soup" - currently I change it about 5-6 times a day because it is very cold and we have much snow. They even line up to get a warm sip from the "soup" - it looks so funny. Yesterday afternoon I watched 4 pijjies having a real race on the blacony balustrade to be the first at the drinking pot after it was still steaming. They drink it in deep gulps. I have a second one near my window so that they don't have to fight who's allowed to drink first. Oh my.....

Fancyfeathers wrote:

Appreciate the update, Petra.
I'm glad to hear Alice is 'perking' up.

Will continue to think positive thoughts.

Thank you Cindy. I hope I did not cause a relapse because I gave her some pellets this lunch to see whether her stomac is working again and because she seemed to feel quite well. An hour later she vomitted some pellets again. So it is definitely too early still. But her mouth looks normal again and her little feet are not cold any more.

I suppose that the canker is hidden deeper in her crop because when I slowly drew back the tube this morning after feeding there was a tiny bit blood at the end of the tube. I might have accidently touched a nodule and dislocated it. I have not seen any blood later on in the vomit nor in her poop. So this might have been a minor issue.

priya wrote:

Alice is such a sweet little bird Petra, you are doing an awesome job with her and all your other pijjie patients I am so glad you noticed little Alice and took her under your wing for timely treatment. Looks like Spartrix is a powerful med against canker...great to hear she is recovering and the lesions are healing up
Prayers and positive thoughts for her complete recovery

Thank you so much Priya

pigeonwriter wrote:

Matilda wrote:

pigeonwriter wrote:

Matilda wrote:

How thick is the cereal you are feeding her, Petra?

so thick that it just can be sucked up in the syringe and goes through the tube.

That's good. Try adding some baby applesauce to the mix. It changes the ph balance in the crop, creating an environment more difficult for the canker to survive.

Charis - the baby cereal is with fruit. I believe this should be enough to make the environment a bit more acidic. What do you think? Also I put organic apple vinegar in her drink as I do in all drink pots - always. Our pijjies on the balcony love this "vinegar soup" - currently I change it about 5-6 times a day because it is very cold and we have much snow. They even line up to get a warm sip from the "soup" - it looks so funny. Yesterday afternoon I watched 4 pijjies having a real race on the blacony balustrade to be the first at the drinking pot after it was still steaming. They drink it in deep gulps. I have a second one near my window so that they don't have to fight who's allowed to drink first. Oh my.....

I understand that you have found a recipe that works for you and that's good. Others will be reading this thread in the future and for that reason, I want to offer another recipe that may be helpful in a similar situation.

I use plain baby rice cereal that comes in a box. Beacuse it's powdered, I can control the consistancy with the amount of water I add. Rice cereal is easy to digest and often will stay down when others will not. I can also add ingredients to it as my confidence increases that the bird can handle it. The ingredients I would add ...appleseauce for human babies, yogurt, peas for human babies.


I think we need a thread on formula recipes and so I started one . Petra, I would love it if you would put your formula recipe there so others can make it too.

Matilda wrote:

I think we need a thread on formula recipes and so I started one.

Petra, I would love it if you would put your formula recipe there so others can make it too.

Here's the link: Hand feeding formulas

Matilda wrote:

...
I use plain baby rice cereal that comes in a box. Beacuse it's powdered, I can control the consistancy with the amount of water I add. Rice cereal is easy to digest and often will stay down when others will not. I can also add ingredients to it as my confidence increases that the bird can handle it. The ingredients I would add ...appleseauce for human babies, yogurt, peas for human babies.


I think we need a thread on formula recipes and so I started one . Petra, I would love it if you would put your formula recipe there so others can make it too.

Charis, I found a "milk pudding with fruit" from Lasana for babies after 4 mths. It is like yours powdered and easily dissolved. It does contain riceflakes as well, wheat and other cereals, no sugar but several fruit which are for babies. It is not as sweet as others and additionally very cheap. I fed it to Willy when he vomitted a lot and now to Alice. I did not add anything to the original recipe because it contains enough vitamins and minerals.

Both pigeons seemed to digest this very well and never vomitted upon this.

So glad little Alice is starting to pick up. I'd only just read this post and do wish you well with her recovery.

I think it's a good idea to have a thread with these recipe ideas, I'd find them very useful.
Thanks.

Janet

so much, Janet, for your good wishes! I will keep you guys updated.

jamy wrote:

So glad little Alice is starting to pick up. I'd only just read this post and do wish you well with her recovery.

I think it's a good idea to have a thread with these recipe ideas, I'd find them very useful.
Thanks.

Janet

I second that!
Fantastic work, Petra -- as always!

Thank you Teresa. But I am only doing what I have learned from you guys.

Today - checking Alice's mouth as usual - I have realized that she still has a lesion on the side of her mouth - no nodule - but a lesion. Also her poop still looks awful as on Tuesday morning - see photo at the beginning of this thread. This means to me that the canker is still there - right?
Today she has received her 5th Spartrix - now my question is shall I continue with Spartrix or give her a pause?

I checked her weight this morning as well - at least she has gained 5 gr since Tuesday, which is not too bad for such a small bird I think.

pigeonwriter wrote:

Thank you Teresa. But I am only doing what I have learned from you guys.

Today - checking Alice's mouth as usual - I have realized that she still has a lesion on the side of her mouth - no nodule - but a lesion.

* Also her poop still looks awful as on Tuesday morning - see photo at the beginning of this thread. This means to me that the canker is still there - right?

** Today she has received her 5th Spartrix - now my question is [b]shall I continue with Spartrix or give her a pause?[/b]

I checked her weight this morning as well - at least she has gained 5 gr since Tuesday, which is not too bad for such a small bird I think.

for the update, Petra.
* I'm thinking (hoping) the more Alice eats, then better her droppings will become.

** Our local rehaber advised us to give from three to five Spartrix. She said in most cases if there is a little visible canker lingering at the end of the course, the Spartrix given should take care of it.
I realize there are differing opinions on this. This was just one of them.

Thank you very much again, Cindy.

The lesion in Alice's mouth looked better this morning - still a bit reddish but definitely better than yesterday. Her poop is still awful but at least there are some formed pieces in it now, not this terrible mushy stuff only.

I am still feeding baby ceral but I also gave her a little pot with oatmeal flakes and millet. I also stopped to give her Spartrix. She is a bit more vivid today and looks out of the window. I have put her box beside Jimi's so that she had a bit daylight and even a tiny bit sunshine.

Can I do anything else to speed up her recovery?

I weighed Alice this morning and she has gained 25 gr within one week which I take as a good sign. She has now 285 gr. The lesion in her mouth has disappeared.
Her poop's consistency has not changed much yet but the colour is a bit more normal and her urinates are more clear than that terrible green colour. She is still urinating very much i.e. she drinks quite a lot but I think this is coming from the relatively sweet baby cereal formula.

What irritated me today was that she had a short seizure like stargazing and a sort of cramp twice but this lasted only for about 20 seconds and was gone again. I had put her box besides Jimi's at the window so that she got some daylight and could look outside to see the other pijjies. Maybe this agitated her too much? I really don't know. Can neurological disorder be an epiphenomenon of canker? I don't dare to think about PMV.

On the other hand Alice started to peck in her foodbowl and I have seen her eating a few grains which she did not vomit. And she wiggled with her wings when she saw me. She is more alert now and looks quite curiously into her interim environment.