We have another sick pigeon - canker (the Alice story part I)

pigeonwriter wrote:

I weighed Alice this morning and she has gained 25 gr within one week which I take as a good sign. She has now 285 gr. The lesion in her mouth has disappeared.
Her poop's consistency has not changed much yet but the colour is a bit more normal and her urinates are more clear than that terrible green colour. She is still urinating very much i.e. she drinks quite a lot but I think this is coming from the relatively sweet baby cereal formula.

What irritated me today was that she had a short seizure like stargazing and a sort of cramp twice but this lasted only for about 20 seconds and was gone again. I had put her box besides Jimi's at the window so that she got some daylight and could look outside to see the other pijjies. Maybe this agitated her too much? I really don't know. Can neurological disorder be an epiphenomenon of canker? I don't dare to think about PMV.

On the other hand Alice started to peck in her foodbowl and I have seen her eating a few grains which she did not vomit. And she wiggled with her wings when she saw me. She is more alert now and looks quite curiously into her interim environment.

I'm glad she is gaining weight. The excessive thirst with neurological symptom can also be a symptom of E-Coli.

It's great that Alice is improving some each day.

You are a wonderful 'pijjie' caregiver, Petra.

I read somewhere that Salmonella could cause neurological symptoms too (is that right?) and that it could be told apart from PMV as it wasn't exarcerbated by startling the bird.

Thank you very much Charis. That sounds plausible to me. I also re-read the whole thread about the symptoms similar to PMV and I agree to your conclusion.

I think I will watch Alice's further development and see whether her recovery is progressing or whether I might need to give her additional medication (antibiotics). But I think as long as she is gaining weight she might be able to overcome this by herself so that I do not need to challenge her immune system additionally.

I pray that there are no more complications...

Teresa wrote:

I read somewhere that Salmonella could cause neurological symptoms too (is that right?) and that it could be told apart from PMV as it wasn't exarcerbated by startling the bird.

Teresa, I checked Alice very carefully several times - she has absolutely no swollen joints or any "hot spots" that may suggest that she has got Salmonella.

Last night I thought Alice is not going to make it. After she was doing so well besides her little seizures I checked her in her box before going to sleep and found her lying on her side in the corner of her box, her head completely twisted and the paper beneath her completely wet. I already thought that she was dead because she did not move.

I took her out, wrapped her up in a towel and stroked her softly. Her feet were cold. After a while she seemed to feel a bit better. So I cleaned her box, put a new waterbottle under her box, put her back in again and laid her head on the little saucer wrapped in kitchenpaper that I am using for them to perch on. Soon she seemed to fall asleep. I honestly did not expect her to make it through the night.

At 7 am This morning I checked her box with very mixed feeling but there she was still, looking at me but seemed to be very weak. So I gave her 10 ml baby cereal with chamomille tea, Blachflower Rescue drops and some holy ash from Sai Baba mixed in her cereal. Afterwards she had a twisted head again and needed some seconds for orientation and then fell asleep again. I was afraid that she might vomit but she did not. After an hour or so she definitely felt better, even drank from her bowl and wiggled with her wing. 2 hours later I gave her a second portion of the baby cereal and increased it to 20 ml. She ate this without problems.

In the early afternoon I gave her another 10 ml and I saw her even perching on her little saucer with straight head.

I don't dare to give a prognosis but I very much hope that she conquered this crisis. I just cannot cope with another problem pijji. It is really getting too much now... Even if I wanted I could not drive to the dreaded vet right now because it is too cold and I have no snow tires.

So what should I do else?
Should she get some antibiotics? The problem is that I don't get these without prescription. A nasty situation.

Petra.....I am so sorry to hear about your experience with little Alice. I know how scary these situations become.....I can feel your frustration and dispair. I can not even venture a guess as to what you should do, however I feel a course of antibotics is propably in order.

You need the advice of Charis or Plamen on this one.,

Sending you a comforting and healing thoughts and prayers for little Alice.

Louise

Oh Petra, I'm so sorry to read about little Alice's set back. Perhaps you can get your hands on Baytril or another broad spectrum antibiotic at a pet store or specialty bird store - some carry those here. Or have some mailed to you?
In any case, I'm praying for you to be sustained through this and for the health of your little one(s).


Teresa, yes, you read correctly - neck twisting can be present from Salmonellosis (Parathyphoid). In pigeons (more than in other bird species) the chronic form (end stage infection) tends to lead to swelling in the legs and/or leg joints, but this is not necessarily an early diagnostic sign.
And as has been mentioned before, neck twisting and such neurologic symptoms can be caused by many things.

If interested, here's a link to an excellent old PT topic on Salmonellosis:
http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/f6/paratyphoid-salmonellosis-11747.html

Best wishes,

Petra...I have contact information for Salmonella-Tab. They are manufactured in Holland.
Pantex...tel.+31 [0]497 530670
E-mail...info@pamtex.net
Internet...www.pantex.net

Thank you Charis!!!! I found them. Do you think Alice has rather Salmonella than E-coli??? Or does the active agent Norfloxacin work against E-coli as well?

Charis, they also have a product called Colimix with agent Trimethoprim, a Na-sulfadiazine which works against Colibacillosis and Adeno-coli.

What should I prefer if I have to order this stuff?

Petra...Salmonella-Tab will work on either salmonella or E-coli because it is a generic baytril, so I would order Salmonella-Tab. It is a very valuable medication to have on hand. I just ordered 2 boxes.

Charis - thank you so much - I only hope that I get this stuff on time.

Me too, Petra. I'll be praying that you do.

Thank you again, Charis

I am so sorry to hear about Alice, Petra.
I hope you are able to get the medication and it begins to take affect quickly.
Please keep us posted. Positive thoughts continue.

Petra, sorry to hear about Alice's condition deteriorating again How is she doing today? Hope you can get the meds soon..saw in your other thread about you not getting the delivery on time Alice will recover soon...she has the will to survive and i feel she will make it. I will have her in my prayers...didn't know you believed in SaiBaba I do too, and will pray for her speedy recovery. Hugs to you

Petra, how is Alice doing?