My lovely Spikey

Subject: Re: My lovely Spikey Wed May 12, 2010 5:58 pm

Fancyfeathers wrote:: We appreciate the update, Myriam.
Positive thoughts for Spikey continue.

Thank you for the moral support and you nice words, Cindy.
Spikey, Jo and I really need it Dove right

Subject: Re: My lovely Spikey Wed May 12, 2010 6:31 pm

Lapalomatriste wrote:: Thank you for the moral support and you nice words, Cindy.

Spikey, Jo and I really need it

You're very welcome. Smile

Best wishes and positive thoughts will always be there for you, Skipey and Jo. Circle of Love

Subject: Re: My lovely Spikey Wed May 12, 2010 7:42 pm

Lapalomatriste wrote:

Matilda wrote:: I would not say that tape worms are common in pigeons yet I've had several infected the past year.

If she does have internal canker infection, I doubt that the treatment you are planning will be adequate.

I read tapeworms seldom can be seen under the microscope.
Is it true that only praziquantel is effective against tapeworm? if so, no use that i give a dewormer without praziquantel.
Moxydetin will not cure tapeworms i suppose.
I have Drontal here (1 tablet= febantel 150 mg + pirantel 50 mg + praziquantel 50 mg)
I called Herbots, the famous Belgian pigeon vet, he told me to give her 125 mg of drontal... :eek: not at once I suppose???? I read somewhere that one should give 5mg praziquantel /kg bodyweight
His recommendation looks very odd to me, I tried to ask, but he told me kind of "shut up, I know better then you"
He also told me tapeworms almost never affect pigeons, but finally admitted it could happen,especially when pigeons eat little animals in the grass (what Spikey likes to do, foraging in the grass)
He is very well known, but for him a pigeon is an object that must be restored for flying prices Seeing red/mad

What's true is that worms of any kind don't show up in each and every dropping. One time, a observed a round worm, half in the bottom of my dog. To be conscientious, i picked up a fecal sample and took it to the vet clinic to be analyzed. There was no evidence of worms in the sample and so they sent it out to a lab for further analysis. The lab found no evidence of worms either. Well...I knew what I had seen and so I wormed him anyway. The same thing happened a few months later with a pigeon.
Moxidectin Plus will treat all worms including tape.I gave her one tablet of Trichocure yesterday.
This will off course have an influence on the crop swab.
Knowing that one tablet= 5 mg of ronidazole, how would you treat?

The Ronidazole dose for a cure is 30 mg for, 3- 5 days in a row.
And another question: can i give different meds on the same day? for example ronidazole and a coxi med? will it not upset her stomach?

Personally, I would worm first and see if it makes a difference. You might see worms in her fecal mater and you might not. If after the worming she starts acting ill and you have seen no worms in her fecal mater, I would start her on baytril because she may have had so many worms that have died inside, that she has an infection. If she improves, I would probably leave it alone. If she doesn't improve, I would treat her for coccidia and I would wait and see if that makes a difference,remembering to retreat after 10 days for coccidia.
Personally, I would save the canker treatment for last. I woke up in the middle of the night thinking about her...I could be wrong but I think her probelm may be the worms.

I would also treat her mate and any other pigeons that have been sharing dishes.
I never did before, but it might be urgent here to act as quick as possible.
Thank you, Myriam

Subject: Re: My lovely Spikey Wed May 12, 2010 8:50 pm

Canker is terribly debilitating, and sadly almost all vets prescribe a preventive dose, which is not nearly enough to make a difference, and only serves to make the canker more resistant.
I always dose my birds over a period of 5 consecutive days -- had to do that with little Pippin, which had been 'treated' for canker at the vets, and came to me still suffering from it and badly underweight. She recovered, but she's way too small and doesn't fly much.

Tapeworms: Moxidectin does not kill tapeworms, but Moxidectin Plus kills them. This is the one you said you used. Please don't give her Drontal: when one of my cats got a bad case of tapeworm, Drontal proved totally ineffective, except for making her terribly sick! The Moxidectin Plus will do the job in a way that's safe for a pigeon.
I would suggest giving her Moxidectin Plus again, with a second dose 12 days after the first. Rapid weight loss is more often due to worms than anything else, and I found to my horror that one of the main causes of death of a pigeon I'd rescued was worms (threadworms, I think) when the bird had already been wormed -- but only once.

Other possibilities:

You mentioned the presence of gram-negative bacteria, but both Salmonella and E-coli would have been dealt with by the antibiotics you gave her. Another possibility,which would have been out of the scope of those two, is Pseudomonas spp -- Bactrim (Trimetoprim) is good for that. Could she have come into contact with a cat?

What's the inside of her mouth/throat like? Any spots/lesions/discoloration/sticky strings of saliva? Is the outside of her beak clean, or does it have any deposits? Are the wattles still white, or discoloured (grey or pink)?
Does she still have diarrhoea? What do the poops look like (colour, consistency, components) and do they have a bad smell?

Sorry bombarding you with questions, but in the absence of pictures we'll need to rely on your eyes!

Best wishes for you and for Spikey!

Subject: Re: My lovely Spikey Sat May 15, 2010 1:03 am

Just some thoughts from me.
If she started moulting recently, she will definitely loose weight and be upset. I would rather go for garlic, ACV, cinnamon tea and vitamins. Red palm oil, mixed with seeds and calcium. Boost her metabolism and provide enough minerals to help her through the moult.
Antibiotics and other medications will do more harm then good in this situation.

Subject: Re: My lovely Spikey Sat May 15, 2010 7:12 am

It's good to see you Plamenh. Smile

Appreciate your input and suggestions.

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