Swollen eyelids

I picked up a squeaker two weeks ago that broke out with swollen eyelids yesterday. The bird is listless, standing up in one place, not fluffed, no stringey mucus in the throat, no yellow adhesion in the throat, with small puddled droppings about the size of a dime, foamy egg yellow, with a small fecal patch in the middle of it. It seemed to be eating well before this appeared.I had paired this bird up with another squeaker to teach the other to eat and separated them two days before this episode. This bird is about a week older. The other squeaker is fully fledged in, doing great. This one, the sick one, still has bare patches under the wings.
There is no exudate from the eyes, pus or running liquid, they have just swollen closed. Occasionally it will open one eye to see its food dish. This morning it started with the bird "gag reaction" as though it was trying to clear its throat, but stopped.

The bird has been on Amoxycillin/Tylosin for two days and I started Doxycycline last night as well. Dosages taken from the Merck formulary. The bird stands up, on a heating pad in its box. No visible improvement.

This is the second bird I picked with these symptoms this year. The last one was an adult, eyes swollen shut, down on the street. Gram stain gave up Campylobacter, but no result with antibiotic or Metronidazole. Death in 72 hours.

Any ideas anyone?

Doxi does make birds feel ill and they vomit as a result...at least evey bird I have put on doxi gets ill.
How much does the bird weigh and what dose of metronidazole did you use?

This sick squeaker weighs in at 180 grams. I did not give him Metronidazole because it did not prove to be effective on the adult that I had caught earlier in the year with the same symptoms. Dose on it was 200-250 mg/kg PO QD.

Do you have any ciprofloxacin ?

Yes I do.

Try the cipro then, rather than the doxi.
The possibility remains that the bird is suffering with more than I just one thing and adding metronidazole to the treatment plan could be benificial, as canker may be developing in the sinus area . I would keep the bird hydrated with subQ fluids.

Will do!

There is certainly something else going on somewhere. I started force feeding 20ml KayTee day before yesterday with no corresponding fecal output. The foamy white dropping suggests catabolism to me, but there is a small amount of fecal matter, not in proportion to what it should be.

The crop empties?

Yes, the crop empties right down.

Have you wormed the bird?

I have no luck with the parasite meds currently available; they all seem to kill healthy birds even with attenuated dosages. A quick peek under a microscope at low power is safer and quicker.
I have killed some wonderful little birds with the cr** they sell for worming.

The reason I asked is because a large worm kill can create a blockage and cause bacterial infection.

The possibility of worms, or a large tapeworm, is a consideration. I don't know what could be done about it until the bird's condition stabilizes though. A pigeon's intestine is so short that I would have expected to see segments in the fecal output before now, though.

Your suggestion that an infection of the sinus may be present, which has some contribution to the eye swelling, is a good one. Ciprofloxacin should have enough penetration to get it if there is still time. As long as there is fecal output in some degree I guess we will have to assume no complete obstruction of the GI tract and deal with that later.

That's the off things about worms...unless you examine each and every dropping, under a microscope, you won't find worms or eggs in just one dropping. There can be more than one type of worm too.
I've told the story many times about observing a worm exiting my dogs bottom. To be absolutely certain, I took a sample to the vet. The vet was unable to find any evidence of worms and so the sample was sent to a lab for further analysis. The lab found no evidence of worms either. I know what I saw and wormed the dog.

I agree. Worms are often missed when the droppings are checked, then you worm the bird and there they are.

I haven't treated any bird with swollen eyelids, so I looked up the symptom and, according to Chevita, itcould either be caused by canker or infectious catarrh. From what you say, the other symptoms of catarrh are absent, so canker may be the main culprit.
http://www.chevita.com/en/pigeons/symptoms/index.php

There is another thread here that may be of interest to you, concerning a squeaker with one eyelid so swollen the eye appeared to be missing. This one had canker.
http://www.pigeonangels.com/pigeon-rescue-suspect-injury-f6/squeaker-with-missing-eye-t1780.htm?highlight=missing+eye

Teresa wrote:

I haven't treated any bird with swollen eyelids, so I looked up the symptom and, according to Chevita, itcould either be caused by canker or infectious catarrh. From what you say, the other symptoms of catarrh are absent, so canker may be the main culprit.
http://www.chevita.com/en/pigeons/symptoms/index.php

There is another thread here that may be of interest to you, concerning a squeaker with one eyelid so swollen the eye appeared to be missing. This one had canker.
http://www.pigeonangels.com/pigeon-rescue-suspect-injury-f6/squeaker-with-missing-eye-t1780.htm?highlight=missing+eye

I went and looked after you said that. Interesting. I didn't know that canker could cause that.

Teresa wrote:

I haven't treated any bird with swollen eyelids, so I looked up the symptom and, according to Chevita, itcould either be caused by canker or infectious catarrh. From what you say, the other symptoms of catarrh are absent, so canker may be the main culprit.
http://www.chevita.com/en/pigeons/symptoms/index.php

There is another thread here that may be of interest to you, concerning a squeaker with one eyelid so swollen the eye appeared to be missing. This one had canker.
http://www.pigeonangels.com/pigeon-rescue-suspect-injury-f6/squeaker-with-missing-eye-t1780.htm?highlight=missing+eye

I was just rereading the initial post and the possibility of canker came to mind to me as well.
Any chance of posting a picture of the bird's eye?

AZWhitefeather wrote:

Teresa wrote:

I haven't treated any bird with swollen eyelids, so I looked up the symptom and, according to Chevita, itcould either be caused by canker or infectious catarrh. From what you say, the other symptoms of catarrh are absent, so canker may be the main culprit.
http://www.chevita.com/en/pigeons/symptoms/index.php

There is another thread here that may be of interest to you, concerning a squeaker with one eyelid so swollen the eye appeared to be missing. This one had canker.
http://www.pigeonangels.com/pigeon-rescue-suspect-injury-f6/squeaker-with-missing-eye-t1780.htm?highlight=missing+eye

I was just rereading the initial post and the possibility of canker came to mind to me as well.
Any chance of posting a picture of the bird's eye?

Yep...that's why I suggested metronidazole as well as cipro.

No not canker, of any kind. Fecal Gram stain gives no gram negatives. It does give fungus, and lots of it.
I am currently trying to culture some for an ID.


I also stopped the Doxycyline and started him off on Ciprofloxacin.

So far he is hanging in there.

Do you have any itraconazole?

Matilda wrote:

AZWhitefeather wrote:

Teresa wrote:

I haven't treated any bird with swollen eyelids, so I looked up the symptom and, according to Chevita, itcould either be caused by canker or infectious catarrh. From what you say, the other symptoms of catarrh are absent, so canker may be the main culprit.
http://www.chevita.com/en/pigeons/symptoms/index.php

There is another thread here that may be of interest to you, concerning a squeaker with one eyelid so swollen the eye appeared to be missing. This one had canker.
http://www.pigeonangels.com/pigeon-rescue-suspect-injury-f6/squeaker-with-missing-eye-t1780.htm?highlight=missing+eye

I was just rereading the initial post and the possibility of canker came to mind to me as well.
Any chance of posting a picture of the bird's eye?

Yep...that's why I suggested metronidazole as well as cipro.

I figured as much.

Grimaldy wrote:

No not canker, of any kind. Fecal Gram stain gives no gram negatives. It does give fungus, and lots of it.
I am currently trying to culture some for an ID.


I also stopped the Doxycyline and started him off on Ciprofloxacin.

So far he is hanging in there.

It's great that you got a clear result that you can work with!
You know, I had no idea that a Gram test would show the presence or absence of protozoans!

Gram stain does not, it is only a quick and dirty way to identify bacteria. The problem is that protazoa infects the GI tract not the eyes or the meniniges. Fungus on the other hand does both. "Canker" is much a misused term, meaning anything from Trichamonis to Salmonella; it basically means lesion.

I started him off on Diflucan last night. After 12 hours the culture dish is definitely growing something. It seems to me I recall that foamy egg yellow droppings are associated with yeast.

He is still with us.

When I speak of canker, I'm specifically meaning, Trichamonis and personally I don't associate it with anything else. Trichanomis is very fragile and don't live long once outside of the host. For that reason, they are difficult to identify because they disintegrate so quickly.
Foamy yellow droppings indicate the liver is affected. Personally...I would still add metronidazole to your treatment regiment.

I'm glad you have difucan available.

I'm delighted he is still alive and I hope he makes it.