Injured pigeon not eating

NiteOwl wrote:

Just a warning about hawks also. They are very fast, and have swooped down and grabbed pet pigeons off of peoples shoulders. They can be very bold. There is no way you can protect her if one decides to swoop down suddenly, which they do.

I understand what you mean about her having friends and socializing with the others. I really do. I agree that if possible a bird should have their own kind around. I do have disabled birds in my loft that do very nicely with a few little things added to make it easier for them. But they are allowed to mate up and have a pigeons life somewhat. But Kader is vulnerable as she can't fly, and could possibly fall off the balcony, or be injured by an aggressive bird, as she would have a hard time getting away. I do know how you feel about her having a life, but unfortunately, sometimes it's a trade off. To let her have a life, and to keep her safe, there are some things she will have to give up. By keeping her in and letting her fly inside, and interacting with her, you and your husband become her flock. Scooter is happier spending time with us than if I put her in the loft to watch the others. She could be put outside in a cage for sun for a while during the nice weather, where she could still see the other birds, with part of her cage shielded against the sun so she could move in and out of the sun at will. This way you would be keeping her safe. There are lots of people who have disabled birds, and they are very happy just having the people for their flock. Look at the people who own parrots and the like. Same thing.

Another thought would be to find another disabled bird and introducing them. That works well too. You may want to consider this as an option. That way she would have the best of both worlds.

This is very true.

Ah, it's a tough job being a mother... especially when the daughter belongs to a different species...
It's not easy to make choices for them, at the best of times.

When I brought Piper home, she was at least able to heal and she was safe. But that didn't seem enough for her, though she became quite familiar with the house and everyone in it, including the cats.
With the ferals able to come and go, she enjoyed the company of her own kind, but I didn't realise how desperate she was to find a mate until the day she flew out the window (which I didn't think her capable of) to mate with two males in their nearby territories.
I was quite frantic, as I told you, knowing she couldn't survive out there, and combed the neighbourhood systematically looking for her. I finally found her, thirsty, hungry and bedraggled, covered in mud, in a nearby building site on a Sunday afternoon. If she'd stayed there another twelve hours, she would have been history. Since then I've acted a little too cautious maybe, but I never leave the window open when she's out of the cage.
Fate, as often happens, provided Piper with a mate. He was a rescue with a broken leg and salmonellosis, and after his quarentine and treatment they were able to spend time together and fell in love. But the call of the wild proved stronger for Noel, and one day he flew away and left her. The same happened with another rescue, Poppet.
Poor Piper got her heart broken twice until Hercules came on the scene. Maybe that's why she's so caring and patient with the bad-tempered so-and-so, but for the first time she has a companion who I believe would rather stay with her than go his own way.

So I'm happy for her, but that doesn't mean my life is easier. Having made the mistake of putting her huge cage in the room I teach in, I keep crossing my fingers that she doesn't do one of those been-in-the-nest-for-ages smelly poops while I'm teaching or talking to the students' parents, and I'm worried what parents would say if the kids ask them what one pigeon was doing on top of the other... The business of replacing eggs is easy enough though, but I often feel bad that they are not allowed to raise any babies.

What would make a pigeon happier in the long term? It's hard to tell. Piper is happy in captivity so long as she has a mate, and so is Hercules. But Noel and Poppet weren't. Perhaps they're like us, some people want security and love, others want freedom and adventure, even if that means taking huge risks.
For my part, I'd rather restrict their freedom unless I believe they have a chance out there, but that doesn't mean you have to do the same. At the end of the day, we often go with our gut feelings, and we owe it to ourselves and to those in our charge to be true to ourselves, and I think the Creator already knew that when He put that pigeon in our path.

Teresa wrote:

Ah, it's a tough job being a mother... especially when the daughter belongs to a different species...
It's not easy to make choices for them, at the best of times.



What would make a pigeon happier in the long term? It's hard to tell.
Piper is happy in captivity so long as she has a mate, and so is Hercules. But Noel and Poppet weren't. Perhaps they're like us, some people want security and love, others want freedom and adventure, even if that means taking huge risks.
For my part, I'd rather restrict their freedom unless I believe they have a chance out there, but that doesn't mean you have to do the same. At the end of the day, we often go with our gut feelings, and we owe it to ourselves and to those in our charge to be true to ourselves, and I think the Creator already knew that when He put that pigeon in our path.

I so disagree with you Teresa. It's not only about making them happier. It's about keeping them safe too. I think maybe giving them as much freedom as possible, but only in ways that would keep them safe. The big difference here is that your bird could fly. This one cannot. That means that it couldn't even get away from an aggressive pigeon, never mind a hungry hawk.
If you had not found her, she would be dead. Is giving her total freedom worth that price? I don't think so. But then I wouldn't let small children play in a dangerous place either, just because that's what would make them happy. You say that we owe it to ourselves and to those in our charge to be true to ourselves. I say that we owe it to those in our charge to take the best care of them that we can. And in doing that, and only doing that can I feel that I am being true to myself. And if doing that happens to take away some freedoms, well then so be it. And putting a handicapped bird outside on a balcony to socialize is just dangerous. Each case is individual, but a handicapped bird that cannot get away from danger or defend itself is just not safe out there. Another point would be in not introducing her to it, as what you never know, you don't miss.
These are not people. They're birds. Of course they want freedom, and they want to have a mate. It's not because they have decided that it is worth the risk. They don't know about risk. They function out of instinct, and wanting those things are instinctual. We can think about what is best for them and what is in their best interests, and I think we have a responsibility to do that.

Dear NiteOwl and Teresa

I think Kader has decided for herself this time. This morning a male pigeon attacked her in the balcony. I don't know if he was trying to mate or attacking for another reason but fortunately I saw them before it was too late. She has no injuries but she is shaken. After I shooed her attacker, she immediately jumped in her cage and as of now she is not interested in getting out at all.

Now I see that I misevaluated the risk I was putting her in and this is probably why we were in disagreement. Although you tried to warn me about the risk, I thought that you were over cautious and that even if something happens I would immediately see it from our living room. But today I was occupied with paying some bills and I don't know how hong attack took place before I stopped it. She is very lucky to come out of it unharmed. It was very foolish of me.

Now I decided to keep her inside unless one of us is also in the balcony with her. Since the spring is up, I am sure we will spend more and more time in the balcony once the rainy season is over. Then she will have plenty of time to enjoy herself.


Dear Teresa,

I am sorry to hear what Piper has gone through. When I was reading your post and you told about her getting lost out there, I was very shaken, thinking what I would do if it happened to Kader. I suddenly felt so sorry and very close to crying. All of a sudden that made me realized how attached I am now to Kader. When I read that you searched for Piper and finally found her, I felt a great admiration for you. I am sure it was a very difficult search. Here in the island we have many astray cats and dogs. If something like that happened to Kader, I am sure she would have fall victim to one of them.

Right now there is a mating couple right in front of me and they look lovely. Maybe Kader will also find someone suitable for her like Piper did. Who knows?

Thank you for your guidance and best wishes.

Ghanima, I'm sorry she was attacked. Hope she isn't hurt, but I'm sure her feelings were, and not understanding why the other bird would attack her. Poor baby. I'm glad you have decided to keep her in unless supervised, as I know you love her, and want her not to be hurt.

We have a handicapped pij in the house with us, and we just adore her. What I did was to make a playpen for her that she can go into outside. I covered the whole thing with hardware cloth so nothing can either get in, OR reach in after her. That way she can enjoy the sunshine and fresh air during the nice weather. We are outside a lot, working around the yard, so can keep an eye on her. I even put a little bath dish in there for her when I am there to watch. She loves it. She can listen to the songbirds and feel the breeze, and the warm rays of the sun. And the best part is that I know she is safe. I feel that in taking on the responsibility of her, that part of that responsibility is in keeping her safe, then happy, in that order. I'm so glad it wasn't something worse, but I know you want what is best for her, and she will get to spend time outside when you are around. Hard not to love them, isn't it?

As far as a friend for her, people are always looking for homes for handicapped birds, or birds that cannot be released. I'm sure one will come along.

Dear NiteOwl,

Thank you for you message.

NiteOwl wrote:

What I did was to make a playpen for her that she can go into outside. I covered the whole thing with hardware cloth so nothing can either get in, OR reach in after her.

Playpen looks like a good idea. Alternatively, another large cage can be bought to put in the balcony.

NiteOwl wrote:

As far as a friend for her, people are always looking for homes for handicapped birds, or birds that cannot be released. I'm sure one will come along.

Yes, this can happen. Our island is a small place and many of the people already know that I have a thing for pigeons

Another thing:

Since her last attack, I sense a change in Kader's behavior. In the past, I used to put my hand in the cage and grab her (in order to check her or weight her, etc). Of course she didn't like it and tried to avoid it but I could always catch her very easily. Following the last attack, after allowing her an hour to shake it off, I wanted to check her for injuries. But when I tried to grab her she tried to hit me with her beak! This repeated a few times. Eventually I was able to check her but this behavior was very surprising for me because she never did anything like that before.

Also, now that she is mostly inside her cage (which stands by a window), males come and dance for her from outside the window. Sometimes, she imitates male's song and dance inside her cage. I am not sure if it is always the same male that she does it for but surely she doesn't do it for all males.

Does any of the above make any sense to you? Do they mean that she selected a mate?

Ghanima wrote:

Dear NiteOwl,

Thank you for you message.

NiteOwl wrote:

What I did was to make a playpen for her that she can go into outside. I covered the whole thing with hardware cloth so nothing can either get in, OR reach in after her.

Playpen looks like a good idea. Alternatively, another large cage can be bought to put in the balcony.

NiteOwl wrote:

As far as a friend for her, people are always looking for homes for handicapped birds, or birds that cannot be released. I'm sure one will come along.

Yes, this can happen. Our island is a small place and many of the people already know that I have a thing for pigeons

Another thing:

Since her last attack, I sense a change in Kader's behavior. In the past, I used to put my hand in the cage and grab her (in order to check her or weight her, etc). Of course she didn't like it and tried to avoid it but I could always catch her very easily. Following the last attack, after allowing her an hour to shake it off, I wanted to check her for injuries. But when I tried to grab her she tried to hit me with her beak! This repeated a few times. Eventually I was able to check her but this behavior was very surprising for me because she never did anything like that before.

Also, now that she is mostly inside her cage (which stands by a window), males come and dance for her from outside the window. Sometimes, she imitates male's song and dance inside her cage. I am not sure if it is always the same male that she does it for but surely she doesn't do it for all males.

Does any of the above make any sense to you? Do they mean that she selected a mate?

As far as her not liking to feel cornered, that could very well be the way she felt when attacked, and couldn't get away. I'm sorry it made that change in her. She may stop that after a while, but sometimes I think that once they start that, it is how they react when you reach for them. As far as her reaction to being wooed through the window, it's hard to tell without seeing it. Is she actually being welcoming to the pigeon on the other side, or is she trying to say "Don't mess with me." It could be welcoming, or a defense, so as not to be hurt again. Like I said, it's hard to tell without watching the behavior. Only you can watch her and try to get a feel for how she is reacting. It sounds as though she is being on the defensive, which is something they learn quickly, but I can't be sure without seeing it. Even in the loft, the young birds will learn quickly to peck or wing slap when they feel threatened. They think the whole world is a safe place when they first come out of the nest box, but after being bullied by the more aggressive birds, they quickly learn the behavior that says "Stay away from me."Watch her when this occurs, and let us know what you think she is actually doing.

As far as putting her in a cage out there, that would be good, as long as nothing can reach through the bars at her. There have been people who have had hawks reach through the bars and actually grab the bird and pull it part way through and kill it. That is why I covered Scooters little pen with hardware cloth. People have had rats and cats do the same thing. It's not much for pretty, but it works for us. I'll post a picture of it.

Like I said, not much for pretty, but safe. We did add the hardware cloth to the top also.



We started taking her out in this cage, but I didn't want to leave her to go do anything, as something could reach in through the bars, so we ended up with the play pen. You'd be surprised how quickly something can happen.

That's a great setup. Jay. Getting a little sun while playing it safe.
Thanks for sharing the pictures.

Thanks Cindy. Not fancy, but it keeps her safe, and she enjoys being outside. She can hear the songbirds and watch them, and her little bath fits in there too. We're usually right there with her, but at least we can wonder off without worrying.

Dear Jay,

Thank you for the pictures. I wasn't quite sure what you meant by hardware cloth but now I understand. I also understand the risk of being pulled through the bars. This hardware cloth looks like a very effective solution against that risk. Here in the islands we don't have hawks and the like because the islands are not big enough to support them. However, we have seagulfs which can be just as nasty.

NiteOwl wrote:

As far as her not liking to feel cornered, that could very well be the way she felt when attacked, and couldn't get away. I'm sorry it made that change in her. She may stop that after a while, but sometimes I think that once they start that, it is how they react when you reach for them.

She is already much more comfortable with our presence than she was when we first adopted her. I was hopping that she would be getting more and more domesticated with time. This is why I was so surprised with her new behavior. I hope she doesn't make a habit out of it.

NiteOwl wrote:

As far as her reaction to being wooed through the window, it's hard to tell without seeing it. Is she actually being welcoming to the pigeon on the other side, or is she trying to say "Don't mess with me."

...

Watch her when this occurs, and let us know what you think she is actually doing.

OK. I will watch it more carefully next time and try to get a feeling. Thank you for your advise.

Cheers.

my most violent bird that i took in from the wild when she was sick just imprinted on my after 7 months of wing slaps and pecks. so there is deffinately hope that she'll get comfy with you

zomg fishies wrote:

my most violent bird that i took in from the wild when she was sick just imprinted on my after 7 months of wing slaps and pecks. so there is deffinately hope that she'll get comfy with you

I am so glad to hear that. I love my little lady very much and I would love to have her sitting on my lap! Thanks for the encouragement!

if you ever hear her "oo-ing" (its the sound they make to call a mate to the nest) try copying her coo back at her and she may think you could be her mate. thats what happened with mine, she cooed for the last month but that one time i decided to play around and coo back she got all excited and now we're very close.

The more time you spend with her, and the more she learns to trust you, I think she'll be fine. How could she not like someone who obviously cares so much about her happiness.

Ghanima, I'm so sorry to hear that Kader was attacked, and that she's scared and defensive because of that. I hope she's feeling better now.
What happened proves that Jay's advice was definitely the best, and the warning that Kader wouldn't be able to defend herself from an aggressive pigeon was, to say the least, prophetic.

zomg fishies wrote:

if you ever hear her "oo-ing" (its the sound they make to call a mate to the nest) try copying her coo back at her and she may think you could be her mate. thats what happened with mine, she cooed for the last month but that one time i decided to play around and coo back she got all excited and now we're very close.

Yes, I heard her coo-ing by herself many times. Especially at nights. I was wondering what that was about! I am glad to learn it now.

As for returning her coo, that is an interesting idea. I will do it. Let's see what she will do :)

ALSO you can try bobbing your fist to her.. i dont know how to explain this ill show a video of me and my Lexxi doing it! maybe tomorrow when its not late at night

zomg fishies wrote:

ALSO you can try bobbing your fist to her.. i dont know how to explain this ill show a video of me and my Lexxi doing it! maybe tomorrow when its not late at night

That sounds interesting AnnMarie.
Look forward to seeing the video.

Dear Teresa

Teresa wrote:

What happened proves that Jay's advice was definitely the best, and the warning that Kader wouldn't be able to defend herself from an aggressive pigeon was, to say the least, prophetic.

You are absolutely right. I am glad that this last attack served as a warning only, not anything worse.

Best.

zomg fishies wrote:

ALSO you can try bobbing your fist to her.. i dont know how to explain this ill show a video of me and my Lexxi doing it! maybe tomorrow when its not late at night

Hmmm. If I understand you correctly, that means my husband will make a lot of fun laughing at me :) He already had a good time watching me cooing to Kader last night.

I am looking forward to seeing the video!

Best wishes.

Well if she should choose you as a mate, then she'll start laying eggs for you, and she'll be sitting on them more then half the time. She won't be out and interacting with you so much. She will be in egg sitting mode. Then you'll have to start switching out the eggs for fake ones. And every month she'll probably be doing the same thing. Why do you want to do that? I'd much rather my pigeon didn't think of me as a mate, but that's just me. LOL.

i honestly wouldnt mind if my Lexxi sat on fake eggs for most of the day everyday! she freaks out in her cage everytime i leave her and i worry about her twisting a leg or something as she tries to get out of her cage to me. i sat at her cage for 2 hours just petting and talking to her because every time i started to leave she would freak out and start cooing and jumping around her cage. I cant leave her out because i have school during the day and i dont want someone to open my door and let her out or the cat in.

Normally, they would have a mate to share nesting responsibilities with. That way they would get off for a good part of the time, and get to stretch their legs. It's a lot harder on them when they are doing it all by themselves with no help from a mate.

a friend told me that about 3 times or more a day what you do is put your hand under them and over the eggs so that she thinks you have taken over nesting duty and will go eat drink and relieve theirself. actually i feel bad for muffins because foofie seems to have lost a little bit of love for her and rarely if ever sits on the nest so to do her stuff she leaves the nest empty then comes back when shes done. i think foofie may be a girl, they never mate yet they feed and preen and cuddle each other at night.