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 Splayed legs

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Matilda
EgypSwiftLady
AZWhitefeather
Angel
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Angel
Special Pigeon Angel


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PostSubject: Splayed legs   Splayed legs Icon_minitimeSun Feb 06, 2011 7:09 am

Hello my friends.
I have a question re my disabled pigeon Angel.
My Angel is 8 years old now. I raised her for the moment she hatched and she has splayed legs. All those years she did alright, was able to walk and get around fine. I always lined her cage with cupboard liners and made sure her favourite perches had a rough surface. Last year I had to temporarily relocate her with a friend. She kept her on a patio with tiles and evidenlty she had a hard time walikng on it and keeping her legs together. Now I found out that her legs are much worse and she cannot walk anymore. She is mostly sitting and both her legs are sticking out sideways. Her cage is lined with the liners at all times but that doesn't seem to help anymore.
I am bringing her back home next week. I talked to my vet and he thinks surgery is not an option, she is too old for it and there is no guarantee it will correct the problem, especially since both legs are involved, plus he doesn't think she could make it through the long surgery.
My friend's vet suggesting, maybe putting her to sleep. I can't do that, she is my Angel, my very first hand raised baby and we are very close.
I don't know what to do. Anybody has any ideas of how I can make her comfortable, please let me know.

Reti
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AZWhitefeather
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AZWhitefeather

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PostSubject: Re: Splayed legs   Splayed legs Icon_minitimeSun Feb 06, 2011 7:21 am

Hi Reti, Hi there/Bye
I am so sorry to hear about Angel. Very sad
I would have to agree with your vet, in that she is probably too old to have the legs corrected.

I have read where some have bought, or made, a type of sling for their non ambulatory birds.
Hmmm Perhaps that type of setup would work for Angel.

How is she otherwise?

Bless you both. Pigeon angel Pigeon angel
Please keep us posting on how things are coming along.

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Cindy

A Pigeon's Prayer
Please watch over us while we fly,
Keeping us safe from the predators that share the sky.

If we become ill or injured in any way,
Please lead us to safety where we are welcome to stay.
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Angel
Special Pigeon Angel


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PostSubject: Re: Splayed legs   Splayed legs Icon_minitimeSun Feb 06, 2011 8:32 am

Hi Cindy, thanks for replying.
She is doing fine otherwise, only she is frustrated and started biting people. I don't think she is in pain, she eats fine and still loves her Tiny and will snuggle and sleep on people's laps. She is such a true Angel.
I also remember reading about the sling, but not sure she will be happy to be confined. She can still fly and she loves it, even though she has trouble getting a lift to fly. You have to pick her up for her to be able to fly.
I tried once to tie her legs closer together by putting a rubber band around her legs, she was even more frustrated, but I hadn't left it on long enough for her to get used to it and I am not sure if it hurt her.
I am thinking to put two snap on bands on each leg and try again to put the rubber band on, what do you think?

Reti
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AZWhitefeather
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PostSubject: Re: Splayed legs   Splayed legs Icon_minitimeSun Feb 06, 2011 9:12 am

Do you know if it's been just recently that Angel has been unable to walk?

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Cindy

A Pigeon's Prayer
Please watch over us while we fly,
Keeping us safe from the predators that share the sky.

If we become ill or injured in any way,
Please lead us to safety where we are welcome to stay.
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EgypSwiftLady
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EgypSwiftLady

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PostSubject: Re: Splayed legs   Splayed legs Icon_minitimeSun Feb 06, 2011 9:46 am


Reti I'm so sorry to read about Angel. I for one would not put her to sleep.

I wouldn't use the rubber band anymore, I'm sure this is very uncomfortable to her.

I think she must feel some pain when walking or she would keep trying, now having said that she may also be able to walk a bit with some theraphy, with your help of course.

I would try working her legs while holding her, flexing the joints & stretching the muscles, if this isn't done her joints & muscle will atrophy, htey will never be useful.
I would also provide a underneath heat source, a heating pad, set on low so that she can sit on it or move off when she wants.

We have an eighteen yr .old Quaker Parrot that is very splade so I know how you must feel.

I hope this helps.
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Matilda
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Matilda

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PostSubject: Re: Splayed legs   Splayed legs Icon_minitimeSun Feb 06, 2011 10:07 am

Reti...I agree with the advise both Cindy and Robin have given you. I think that tying her legs closer together may have caused some inflammation around her joints and she may be very sore. Once splayed birds stop growing , tying the legs together seems to do more harm than good.
She very well may be uncomfortable but is pretending to feel oaky.

Putting her in a sling, for a while may help the legs heal... that and physical therapy. It won't hurt to try.

If you do find swelling, talk to the vet about an anti inflammatory medication for her.
I would have her checked for canker and coccidia because she has been so stressed.

I'm really sorry and hope you can get her back to where she was. I think it's very possible.

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NiteOwl
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PostSubject: Re: Splayed legs   Splayed legs Icon_minitimeSun Feb 06, 2011 11:20 am

Hi Reti. I can relate as we have a pij with a badly splayed leg who resides in our living room. Scooter is a blessing. She couldn't stand or walk or even fly when we got her. I would hold her up and get her to take off over a soft surface, as she couldn't stand, so would crash land on what ever she did land on. I exercised the good leg that was always folded under her so that it wouldn't become frozen in that position, In time, she would try to use it more when she landed. One night we walked by her cage, and she was standing. I was so happy that I actually cried. Now she had a shot at having more quality of life. She likes to go to the floor, as she can hobble around down there. Much as I don't like her down there, I let her, cause it is good for her to walk. She can move so well now, that catching her is a challenge. We have her out of the cage often, and I like to get her to fly a lot to keep her weight down, as if she gets too heavy from lack of exercise, that will also make it harder for her to get up on the one good leg. I think if you exercise that leg by gently trying to bring it back to where it was, a little at a time (not all at once, or you can hurt her), and bending it like it should, again, a little at a time, it may come back.

As far as her cage, it should be padded where she spends so much time on her belly. But not so soft that she can't stand. In Scooters cage, I put down a folded towel, then a sheet of lambs wool (actually, the fake lambs wool that you can buy at a fabric store). Then I cover that with a hand towel. On one side of her cage, I keep another piece of lambs wool for her nest. She loves it. If you take her out often and try to get her to fly (with plenty of soft things to land on, as she must crash land, without the use of her legs, she will probably start trying to use her good leg again. This means taking her out often, and working with her good leg. I think it may have a chance of coming back, and a lot of interaction with you also improves her quality of life. Scooter loves to be held, and loves our company. When we go to another room, she will fly after us. Just likes to keep us in sight. I have put up shelves in different places for her to sit on. Also covered in lambs wool and a hand towel.

When I first heard about Scooter, and decided to take her, as she would have been put down, I remember saying that she didn't have much quality of life. I also said that without quality of life, that she would maybe be better off put to sleep. I said this to Charis. Well, if you know Charis, then you know that she doesn't generally give up on any creature as long as it is breathing. She told me that I couldn't judge another creatures quality of life, by what I would consider "quality of life". And not to give up on her. Then we met Scooter, and fell in love with her. I worked very hard with her and spent a lot of well invested time, trying to get her to as far as she was able to go. Today she is a very happy little pigeon, who spends a great deal of time out with us when we get home from work. And in the morning before work. If we ignore her and don't take her out, she will carry on relentlessly til we let her out. She's a character. And we just adore her. She will sit in your hand for hours if you will hold her that long, and when I snuggle her in the neck, she will turn her little head around and plant many kisses on my face. Don't know what we'd do without her now. But I'm glad for what was said to me about not judging anothers "quality of life" by what I would want for my own. It has made me rethink my perspective. Please don't give up on her. Give her enough padding in her cage, take her out often, and work with her. I think she has a chance of coming back to where she was. Please keep us updated on her progress. She deserves a chance. Everyone does.
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Teresa
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Teresa

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PostSubject: Re: Splayed legs   Splayed legs Icon_minitimeSun Feb 06, 2011 6:48 pm

Best wishes, Reti and Angel, hope it works! Universal hug
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Angel
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PostSubject: Re: Splayed legs   Splayed legs Icon_minitimeSun Feb 06, 2011 7:16 pm

Thank you all so much for your input.
Cindy, my friend noticed this past week that Angel is not walking anymore.

Both her legs are bad, but the left one was always worse, but she was walking and flying fine.
I will do therapy with her and of course her cage and nest is always padded. Not sure if she needs a heating pad as this is not an acute illness. I will definately check her for canker or coccidia even have my vet do a fecal. She lived outside for the past year, so I wanna make sure she didn't pick up anything.

Thank you so much. I definately won't put her to sleep and I will be able to get an antiinflammatory from my vet in case I notice any swelling or I think she is in pain.

I am sure this came on because of her walking on tiles where she has no good grip and her legs were slipping, here everything is padded where she likes to hang out and I have carpet in her room, so maybe, hopefully, she will recover somewhat. If not I will look into the sling idea.

Reti

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AZWhitefeather
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PostSubject: Re: Splayed legs   Splayed legs Icon_minitimeSun Feb 06, 2011 10:03 pm

Angel wrote:
Thank you all so much for your input.

Cindy, my friend noticed this past week that Angel is not walking anymore.

Both her legs are bad, but the left one was always worse, but she was walking and flying fine.
I will do therapy with her and of course her cage and nest is always padded. Not sure if she needs a heating pad as this is not an acute illness. I will definately check her for canker or coccidia even have my vet do a fecal. She lived outside for the past year, so I wanna make sure she didn't pick up anything.

Thank you so much. I definately won't put her to sleep and I will be able to get an antiinflammatory from my vet in case I notice any swelling or I think she is in pain.

I am sure this came on because of her walking on tiles where she has no good grip and her legs were slipping, here everything is padded where she likes to hang out and I have carpet in her room, so maybe, hopefully, she will recover somewhat. If not I will look into the sling idea.

Reti


At least it hasn't been too long and that, I would think is a good thing.
Perhaps with some therapy (and some occasional heat might not hurt) she will regain some of her walking ability. Fingers crossed

I will think the best thoughts possible for you both. Universal hug

Tile floors can be a challenge even for a bird without any walking issues.

Please keep us posted. Smile

_________________
Cindy

A Pigeon's Prayer
Please watch over us while we fly,
Keeping us safe from the predators that share the sky.

If we become ill or injured in any way,
Please lead us to safety where we are welcome to stay.
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Angel
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PostSubject: Re: Splayed legs   Splayed legs Icon_minitimeMon Feb 07, 2011 7:33 am

Thank you.
I will keep you posted.


Reti
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EgypSwiftLady
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EgypSwiftLady

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PostSubject: Re: Splayed legs   Splayed legs Icon_minitimeMon Feb 07, 2011 3:08 pm

Angel wrote:

I will do therapy with her and of course her cage and nest is always padded. Not sure if she needs a heating pad as this is not an acute illness.

Reti

I recommended using the heating pad becuase if her legs & joints are sore & hurting the heat from the pad will make them feel better.

I have used this method before for animals with leg & joint problems and it does help.
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AZWhitefeather
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AZWhitefeather

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PostSubject: Re: Splayed legs   Splayed legs Icon_minitimeMon Feb 07, 2011 3:33 pm

EgypSwiftLady wrote:
Angel wrote:

I will do therapy with her and of course her cage and nest is always padded. Not sure if she needs a heating pad as this is not an acute illness.

Reti

I recommended using the heating pad becuase if her legs & joints are sore & hurting the heat from the pad will make them feel better.

I have used this method before for animals with leg & joint problems and it does help.

I agree

_________________
Cindy

A Pigeon's Prayer
Please watch over us while we fly,
Keeping us safe from the predators that share the sky.

If we become ill or injured in any way,
Please lead us to safety where we are welcome to stay.
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NiteOwl
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NiteOwl

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PostSubject: Re: Splayed legs   Splayed legs Icon_minitimeMon Feb 07, 2011 3:33 pm

EgypSwiftLady wrote:
Angel wrote:

I will do therapy with her and of course her cage and nest is always padded. Not sure if she needs a heating pad as this is not an acute illness.

Reti

I recommended using the heating pad becuase if her legs & joints are sore & hurting the heat from the pad will make them feel better.

I have used this method before for animals with leg & joint problems and it does help.


Yes. I would imagine that it would feel good to her.
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NiteOwl
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PostSubject: Re: Splayed legs   Splayed legs Icon_minitimeSun Feb 20, 2011 1:49 pm

Does anyone know how Angel is doing?
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AZWhitefeather
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PostSubject: Re: Splayed legs   Splayed legs Icon_minitimeSun Feb 20, 2011 3:19 pm

NiteOwl wrote:
Does anyone know how Angel is doing?

I haven't heard anything. Disappointed

I'm hoping she is doing OK. Fingers crossed
I know Reti is very busy. I'm hoping she will be able to stop by and give us an update.

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Cindy

A Pigeon's Prayer
Please watch over us while we fly,
Keeping us safe from the predators that share the sky.

If we become ill or injured in any way,
Please lead us to safety where we are welcome to stay.
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AnnieBirdy
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PostSubject: Re: Splayed legs   Splayed legs Icon_minitimeWed Feb 23, 2011 5:44 am

I am joining in with the prayers and good, positive thoughts for little Angel. I fully agree with the others who have said about supplying a heat source. Warth, especially contact warmth can often provide much needed ease to aching joints, muscles and bones.
All landing and resting surfaces should be non-slippy, but also soft and non-abrasive so as not to cause bumble foot or similar conditions. Be careful with towels if they are heavilly looped, as little claws can easily be caught in the loops. Short pile fleece is always my choice.
Here in the UK, Metacam is often used very successfully for the ease of pain and inflamation. However, long term use can cause renal problems, it is sometimes one of the negative side effects. I have used it many many times though, to bring short to mid-term relief on many of the injured birds that have been in my care, while the healing process takes place.
Keep an eye on her sternum/breast-bone, as this can be subject to undue pressure due to a severely splayed bird resting on it constantly. It can also cause some compromising of the breathing as the chest area can begin to flatten out a bit.
I do hope a way forward is found for this little bird, they are all so very precious arnt they Splayed legs 983488
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Angel
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PostSubject: Re: Splayed legs   Splayed legs Icon_minitimeWed Feb 23, 2011 5:00 pm

Oh, I use only fleece for covering the areas she likes to go on. Thank you.

Well, she is not home yet, as my friend doesn't want to give her up so easily, because Angel and her mate Tiny love the big porch. I bet they love the porch but the porch is not good for her, so she will be comming home the second week of March when my friend goes out of town and I need to birdsit. And Angel and Tiny will stay forever with me. I don't know what I was thinking to give her away, even if temporarily.
They are both very tame and very sweet and love people so I can see she has a hard time parting with them. Very sad

Her cage is ready and waiting for them and in the meantime I will arrange it similar tot he pics I saw in the other thread. Wish I could find one of those heating pads that go on when she goes on it and doesn't oveheat.

Reti
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Matilda
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PostSubject: Re: Splayed legs   Splayed legs Icon_minitimeWed Feb 23, 2011 5:43 pm

Metacame is great, as Annie said, for short term. It's wonderful to finally have a drug to ease pain in birds.
In addition to the warning she mentioned, it can also cause internal bleeding. For these reasons, I never use it more than 3 days in a row which is also the recommendation of my friend Deb DVM.
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AZWhitefeather
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PostSubject: Re: Splayed legs   Splayed legs Icon_minitimeWed Feb 23, 2011 8:22 pm

Please keep us posted on Angel and Tiny's homecoming, Reti. Splayed legs 983488

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Cindy

A Pigeon's Prayer
Please watch over us while we fly,
Keeping us safe from the predators that share the sky.

If we become ill or injured in any way,
Please lead us to safety where we are welcome to stay.
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ysplace
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PostSubject: joint pain in birds   Splayed legs Icon_minitimeWed Feb 23, 2011 8:48 pm

I read some where that Glucosamine has been used for birds that suffer joint pain. Is this something that can help with pigeons?

Yvette
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Matilda
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Matilda

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PostSubject: Re: Splayed legs   Splayed legs Icon_minitimeWed Feb 23, 2011 9:28 pm

ysplace wrote:
I read some where that Glucosamine has been used for birds that suffer joint pain. Is this something that can help with pigeons?

Yvette

I've never heard that. I'll ask Deb about it next time I talk to her.
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Angel
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PostSubject: Re: Splayed legs   Splayed legs Icon_minitimeThu Feb 24, 2011 8:20 am

I have Metacam on hand, and will give it if i suspect she is in pain of course.
I saw the glucosamine advertised on animal planet for horses and dogs and cats. Not sure about it in pigeons. I take it myself and I can say it works pretty well for me. It's supposed to lubricate the joints. I will also ask my vet if he has used it on birds.

Reti
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EgypSwiftLady
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PostSubject: Re: Splayed legs   Splayed legs Icon_minitimeThu Feb 24, 2011 10:38 am

Matilda wrote:
ysplace wrote:
I read some where that Glucosamine has been used for birds that suffer joint pain. Is this something that can help with pigeons?

Yvette

I've never heard that. I'll ask Deb about it next time I talk to her.


I would love to know what your friend says Charis Splayed legs 395766 I use this for two of our elder dogs but hadn't read anything about using it on birds.
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AnnieBirdy
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PostSubject: Re: Splayed legs   Splayed legs Icon_minitimeThu Feb 24, 2011 12:30 pm

This link mentions glucosamine for use with a bird >>>
http://en.allexperts.com/q/Birds-General-2349/2008/2/Budgie-Leg.htm

Another discussion >>>>>
http://www.aviannation.com/showthread.php?3510-Glucosamine-for-birds-w-arthritis

Not overly informative, but they may help a little :)
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