Balsa meets a Pigeon Angel

Ok, my "Pigeon Angel" friends!

Here goes an update about Balsa's condition: like I said before, it's almost sure that Balsa is a boy, because he/she has been very agressive lately ( lol), and also started cooing ("Cu-Currruuuu!") ( ), not mentioning the postures and the attitudes (like stoping eating from my hand almost from good, and biting me most of the times I approach his food! ). Besides, he is a big pigeon, if we take a good look at him, specially his head...



I'm going to do the test of the mirror soon, and I will let you know about the result! Actually, I've already done it once, but the result didn't came out (lol) because my boyfriend was near and he gets a bit afraid and concentrated on him when he's around...

He becames specially agressive when he's already sleeping and I go to his room for some reason, like putting a worm water bag near the place where he's sleeping, even tough it's been very rare lately, because the weather has been warm lately here in Lisbon, but sometimes I still do it, by night, and I like to touch him to feel his temperature, to check out if he needs warming or not.

As soon as I approach him, he normally starts yelling at me, bites me, and tries to slap me with his wings! I IT!

By the way, ! He doesn't know what a box is for about a week! He started coming out on his own for a while now, so I decided to let him be free on that room, thank God my boyfriend's parents don't use it, so it's ok...

So, basicly, he choses by himself where and when he wants to be or sleep, and I already caught him basicly everywhere: on a little and old bench, that he loves, and that I'm trying to restore a bit, the wooden stairs that are attached to the wall of the window, inside a vase of a plant (I caught him there twice, and it was boring because he seems to chose the exact time after I treat his legs with Bacitracine.. , and it was really difficult to take the plant substrate out of his skin, so I decided to cover the vase with absorbent paper, just in case... )








Besides this, he can also be very charming and sweet, many times I approach him and start caressing him, he stays still (without biting me!

) and starts closing his eyes...





He has also been very active, he can already fly a bit, and take off from the ground to the stairs or to the bench very easily. I'm gonna start to harden the difficulty slowly, and hopefully he will improve more and more....

Yesterday, I stood hiden behind the door, watching him ( :: ) and I caught him doing something great!

First, he started eating, then when he finished, he turned around and did his "thing" ( ), and then he opened his wings, landed at the floor, and started doing what I called "The Flight Training" eheh, because he started opening his wings and doing the movement of fly, but he wasn't jumping, his feet were standing in the ground all the time, then he started moving his wings faster and stronger for a few seconds, and it came to a point when he started walking in circles, and then he stopped and started biting his little feathers below the wings, and shortly after he went to the water, drank a bit and then cleaned himself!

It was amazing!

So, thank God and Teresa's help, as well as the tips that I found all over this site, Balsa is recovering well in general, even tough he still needs to recover more from his feet, toes and legs, and also his injured wing that also had Salmonella is not on the correct position,



but, considering it's initial state, it's much, much better and I think that, unfortunately, it'll never will be 100% again, but what is important is that he is not suffering so much, and he can already use his wing again! Besides, there are also lots of new and big feathers coming out of that wing!

Awww and by the way, I almost forgot!!! He started having some Coccidiosis symptoms about almost 2 weeks ago, but as soon as I spoke about it with Teresa, she sent me some treatment right away ( ), and Balsa has already done the 5 day treatment (it was finished a few days ago), and recovered well.

( once more, Teresa, for all that you've done for Balsa! I not even have words anymore, just know that you have a special place inside my heart and when I get the chance, I will go to Figueira da Foz someday, and I'll take you out for a dinner or a tea, and we can have a good talk about our dear angels! eheh)

I hope he doesn't have similar problems so soon, because he has already suffered so much from the hair string injuries, Salmonella, Coccidiosis...

If it's God's will, he will continue to recover! Just like Teresa said one day, "It was a true miracle that he survived." and , so everyday I'm thankful for his recovery.

Ok, so I'll take some new pictures today (the ones I just posted were taken yesterday and the day before) and I will soon come here to tell you the latest news about Balsa.

I also got lots of videos to share, I'll try to create an account and upload them when I got some free time.

Talk to you all soon!

Hugs,
Rosa

technocactus wrote:

Thanks for the support, techocactus!

By the way, considering your nickname, I would also like to say that I love plants as well, and that I also have a collection of cactus!

AZWhitefeather wrote:

Thank you for your lovely posts, Rosa.

It's interesting isn't how we think a pigeon maybe one gender, by it's actions, and as time goes by we find out they are not what we originally thought.

Our sweet Rae Charles, who is blind, was thought to be a male by 'her' actions. Then to my surprise I discovered an egg in her cage about three years after she was brought to us.
That's been the only egg she has laid in 8 years. And she still coos, dances about and fans her tail, just as a male would, when I, or my husband, walk in her room and call her name. She is such a little love.

Eheh, what a funny story! Yes, Teresa has already warned me about their "tricks" before!

By the way, I imagine your surprise when the "male" laid the egg, uh?

Teresa wrote:

Isn't it funny how many male pigeons end up with girlie names, and girl pigeons with butch names?!
Wish they'd find a way to tell us what they are to begin with, to avoid being stuck with an embarrassing name for life...

Great to hear from you, Rosa!

AHAH, you bet, Teresa! Poor birds!

Yeah, nice to come here too, I was missing "Pigeon Angels", but unfortunately I barely turn on the PC these days... LOL But I always find the time for a little chit-chat! eheh

Wonderful update, Rosa!

Wow, that first photo!! What a royal look! Love it!

And I stared for ages at the one where you can see his feet really well... the colour is SO healthy, you can tell there's no infection and the circulation is good. What a difference!

You know, what makes a huge difference in terms of helping at a distance is that you are so observant and so good at describing what you see. I was amazed at how much detail you put into describing him exercising his wings. Aaaaaand... I truly think one of these days you're going to have a very good surprise. His bad wing is definitely healing, or he wouldn't be able to do all that. Three of mine (Noel, Poppet and Scarlet) went through a stage exactly like that, and a few weeks later they were FLYING! Their bad wings still hung down a little, but that hasn't stopped them from doing perfectly well outside.

Continued best wishes for you both!

And yes, come over to Figueira some time and I'll introduce you to the zoo!

AZWhitefeather wrote:

Teresa wrote:

Isn't it funny how many male pigeons end up with girlie names, and girl pigeons with butch names?!

Wish they'd find a way to tell us what they are to begin with, to avoid being stuck with an embarrassing name for life...

Great to hear from you, Rosa!

Yeah, like Dolly. It could have been worse for him. I could have tagged him with his sister's name, Dumpling.

Hello Pigeon Angels friends!

I came here today to make you an update about Balsa. Unfortunately, there are not only good things... I'm going to start from the part where I left you: he has been recovering very well in these last couple of months, he's been showing a lot of improvement, specially on flying, walking and moving himself around the room. Sometimes, when there is no one at home, I leave the door of the room open, and he comes out of there to explore the other room next to his!

Sometimes, he doesn't want to be disturbed, so he bites and slaps with his wings , but sometimes he can also be such a sweetheart, giving me kisses and enjoying when I fondle him and all:














Meanwhile, ever since a few days ago, he started showing some signs wich are not very good: he's been doing wet poops again, and there was a decrease on his appetite, but I thought it was due to the stress, because there were some sudden changes in the weather these days, and in June, here in Lisbon, there are a lot of celebrations across the city, and the last weekend it was the main party, and there was extremely loud music all over and lots of noise till the morning....

So, I tought this was all due to the stress, but yesterday afternoon, I was with Balsa at his room, and I noticed he tilted his head, just like they do when they are in the water, and some fluid came out!!! I was really worried, at first I tought he had vomited, because he kept on swalling, and when I opened his beak and examinated it, I saw there was a bit of salive in his thung, but then I understood that the fluid was not coming from his mouth, but from his nose!!!!

But there is another thing : he has been feeling atracted to outside a lot ever since he got better. At the beggining, I used to put him outside to catch the sunlight, inside the box, but then he started struggling inside to come outside, so I quit doing that, and chose to keep him inside with the window open, in the good days, so that he could still catch the sun light directly.

Sometimes I even left the whole window open, and he never left: he only stood there, looking outside from the stairs. But, once he was really better and was already able to fly a couple of meters up, I started putting a plastic transparent sheet on the window, so that he would't escape, but could still see outside.

This was until the day before yesterday, when I caught him standing on the window. I approched him, and then he started struggling to go outside! It tottaly broke my heart because I know that he must be dying to return to his freedom, but I still don't think that it's the best time for him to go, because he's not yet totally recovered, and I'm not sure if he will make it out there....

When I saw that he really wanted to go, I didn't knew what to do : I think he may not make it like this out there, but at the same time, I could feel that he is starting to get very sad to be locked up in here, specially because his room has a window to the rooftop, and he can hear other birds all day...

This was the day before yesterday, and since yesterday he has been spending most of his time next to the window... It totally breaks my heart...


I really don't want to hold him down more than necessary, and when I caught him struggling to be free again I even tought about considering releasing him soon, but as soon as he started showing the other symptoms, I knew that I couldn't release him like this.
To tell you the truth, I don't know if he will ever be able to be released, and I'm feeling lots of pressure, because he is not at my home, and I'm being constantly pressured to release him, but still I'm doing everything to keep him, and I won't release him until I know that he is totally ok.

It is also truth that I already love him too much, and tears come to my eyes everytime I think about releasing him... If I could chose, I would never be apart from him again, but of course I want him to be free, as long as I know that it's the best thing for him.

Ever since I took Balsa home, I've been reading and learning about pigeons, and yesterday, when I saw the nasal discharge, I did a more intensive research, and basicly he has symptoms of a few problems, several of each:

Respiratory desease - Mycoplasma - Nasal Discharge (only from the nose, and not from the eye. It doesn't happen all the time, every since yesterday, I only saw it appearing 2 times. It is mostly transparent and liquid.) - http://www.internationalmodenaclub.com/The%20Doctors%20Corner/Articles/Respiratory%20DiseasePg1-2.pdf

Infectious Catarrh - - Nasal Discharge and maybe a bit grey inside the beak. I'm not sure, but I think so. He has no white or yellow spots, but the colour in general is pale pink, and there are some parts that seem a bit grey, specially near to the beak, but maybe it's the "continuation" of his beak colour, I'm not sure.

Ornithosis - He doesn't do it all the time, but I already saw him many times with the beak not totally closed. He doesn't do any noise breathing, but sometimes he swallows.

Here are some pics, below. I took them just a couple of hours ago. I'm sorry about the quality of the pics, but my camera quit working a couple of weeks ago , so this was the best I could do with my mobile phone, with the sunlight in the back:








I also observed a bit sticky saliva 2 times that I opened his beak.

So, what do you think? I wish someone more experienced than me could give me some advice. I wish even more that I could take Balsa to a vet specialized in birds, but unfortunately and sadly I don't have the chance to do it now, because I'm unemployed for several months, and I simply don't have the money to do it..... I feel very sad that this is the best I can do for now, and I also know that it's not good to do a diagnosis like this, a vet is always the best option but sadly I really can't take him to the doctor now... I'm looking for a job everyday, and I already promised him that I will take him there as soon as I got the chance, wich God willing will happen soon. I just hope it's not to lately, hopefully the worst is past already.

I'm also aware that stress can provoke outbreaks of some diseases, and the huge noise plus his desire to go back to his freedom could be a bit responsable, but I don't think that stress himself could develop all [i] these symptoms.

I'm worried about Balsa, God Willing he will get better soon. I just checked him now, and went to wish him good night and the beak was totally closed, but I'm sure something must be wrong with him definetely, I'm just not sure yet about the specific problem.

I thank all of those who took the time to read this, and I also appreciate any advice that could be helpful. May God bless you all, Pigeon Angels. I'll let you all updated soon as well.

[/b]Quick update[b] - Balsão's state remains basicly the same: he passes much time near the window, but he is not quiet all the time, he walks and flies a bit inside the room, and this afternoon I opened the door of his room again and left him free and he went for adventures on the room next to his!

It's a good sign, but the bad signs remain: he keeps on not eating much, the poops are still a bit wet and are small (I think it's because he eats only a bit). He keeps on having some discharges from the nose sometimes and today I already heard some breath sounds sometimes...

Poor Balsão, I'm really worried about him..... I really think it's an infection, could someone please help me? Has anyone ever experienced or heard about the same symptoms?

Any help or tip would be appreciated. I'm really looking forward to understand what he's suffering of so that I can buy the medicine and medicate him, it seems serious to me, but I don't have the chance to take him to the vet right now, because of the reasons I said before...

Thanks in advance!

Has he been drinking more water than normal? It sounds like it could be the beginning of a Resp. infection. If you could get us a picture of the poops it would be good!

Also does he have a mirror in his cage? If no--- he would most enjoy one as they love to look at themselves and roo coo!

I'm not sure.... Because today he turned the water bowl upside down , sometimes he does that while he is moving across the room, so I can't be very sure, but today I caught him drinking water and he drank quite a few, and it lasted a few seconds...

Yeah, I already heard about the mirror, Teresa already told me about it, but I thought it was more used trying to figure out the pigeon's sex, so I did it 2 or 3 times to test, but I didn't left it near him, I thought it might be a bit stressful for him, I wasn't sure... Do you think it might be good for him, maybe cheer him up a bit?

Oh, and he is not in a cage anymore, he was inside a cage only for about a month, while he couldn't get up, but he hated it and started struggling hard to come outside, as a feral pigeon he is, eheh so he is free in a room now, since then.

Thank you for the answer, I really appreciated it, and I'm almost sure it's a respiractory infection as well, concerning what I've been reading on the sites recomended on this post : http://www.pigeonangels.com/t15-illnesses-and-symptoms

I'm really looking forward to get some more oppinions, to get ready to know what to do to help Balsa.

Thanks a lot for your help, may you be much blessed.

About the poops, my camera is broken for a few weeks, but I will take a few pictures with my mobile phone tomorrow, and upload them. Meanwhile, I can say that they are always changing, but mostly they are small because he is eating only a bit, and they are watery, and colour changes from green to brown when he eats a bit, and some variations between these two colours...

Balsão is resting now, but tomorrow morning I will take a picture to his poops. They are the best indicators of what's going on, and hopefully it will be more clear then.

Hi Rosa,

Sorry I didn't see your post yesterday, as I was looking after Geraldo.

I hope it's Ornithosis that Balsa has, as that will respond to Baytril (7mg once a day, after food) or to an antibiotic specifically for respiratory tract infections.

Mycoplasmosis is definitely a possibility, especially as the eyes don't seem affected. This article is good: http://www.pigeonangels.com/t2818-mycoplasmosis-in-birds#39680 , but as a rule pigeons with Mycoplasmosis don't show eye problems, unlike some of the species they mention there.
The organisms responsible for the infection are more closely related to fungi than bacteria. Treatment usually consists of a long-term course of different types of antibiotics taken together:

- Oxytetracycline hydrochloride with polymyxin B sulfate eye ointment daily in both eyes.
- Tetracycline systemic antibiotic given orally twice daily for 14 days.
- Tylosin tartrate in the drinking water until release.

I don't have any of those in the house, but it should be possible to obtain Tetracycline (a terramycin) at the chemist's, and I believe someone in Coimbra managed to buy Tylosin tartrate in a pet shop. I'll look for more info.

About him wanting to go outside... well, it's mating season, and he must be thinking he's the only single bird in town. He may also be trying to sunbathe, especially if he feels cold. A net, rather than a plastic sheet, would allow him to get some sun. A hot water bottle at night would also help for now.

Best wishes to you both!

PS. With Mycoplasmosis there is usually an unhealthy smell from the beak.
Also, bear in mind that Canker can also cause an inflammation of the sinuses and mucus in the throat, as well as loose poops. It's very important to make sure the watery stuff isn't vomit, as that would point to sour crop caused by canker.

I would start with the usual suspects, and treat for respiratory infection+canker+sour crop: Baytril, Flagyl and Nystatin. (Have you still got the dosages?) And pray it isn't Mycoplasmosis...

Hi Rosa,
I'm sorry to her that Balsa doesn't appear to be feeling up to par.
Your description of the mucous in the mouth would alert me to canker.

In the last three photos, it looks like his beak is open just a bit. Has he started to breathe with his beak open slightly?

I hope he begins to perk up real soon.
Please keep us posted.

Hi Teresa,

It's ok, you don't have to be sorry, it's normal that sometimes we can't be everywhere! eheh Actually, I'm very happy to know that you were busy helping those poor angels, who were having those horrifying injuries due to human neglicency...

I'm starting to think that, very likely, Balsa's problem must be related to Ornithosis, because he has most of the symptoms: sometimes he has the beak more closed, but today I've been observing that he is opening it a bit more, he is brething with the beak half-open mostly now, just like it's shown in this picture: http://www.chevita.com/en/pigeons/treatment-plan/specificinfections-ornithosis.php

I also observed today that his eyes are starting to be very "glossy" and a bit watery, but no discharge from the eye, at least till now. But yesterday, his eyes were completely normal, and today they appear like this. I think it must be the infection getting stronger...

He keeps on not having appetite, so I followed your advice and prepared some peas and gave him, let's see if he eats a bit.
I also followed your suggestion about the net, and he seemed very happy when I opened the window and installed it!

I tried to smell his beak, but he doesn't like when I approach my face from his too much , so I took a bit in my finger and smelled, and it didn't smelled like anything to me, but I can't be sure because my smelling has been weak lately, due to alergies, etc.

I will follow your advice and put him in Baytril and Flagyl asap. I have only 5 doses of Flagyl already separated and no Baytril anymore (because I wasted a lot during the preparation procedure when I administrated it to Balsa before, because I was totally unexperienced and I messed up a bit ), but I will look for it in pharmacies, because the one near me doesn't sell it (I always find this very strange, because Baytril is produced by Bayer, but anyway.... ).

So, this whole scenario makes me beleive that Balsa's problem must really be Ornithosis. He has also some Mycoplasmosis symptoms, and actually, on the link you advised me http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7-153-10370_12150_12220-27089--,00.html I found another sympthom that he also shows:

"The birds may also display wet, matted feathers on the face (especially around the eyes)"

When I was examining him this morning, I noticed some wet feathers, and some were around the eyes, but I don't know if it came from the eye or if it was from the nose, because sometimes he tilts his head in that movement that I related before, similar to the one they do when they are in the water, and the nose discharge may spread to other parts of the body...

Thanks a lot for your precious help, Teresa, specially in such busy times! You are a true Pigeon Angel

[quote="AZWhitefeather"]

In the last three photos, it looks like his beak is open just a bit. Has he started to breathe with his beak open slightly?[i]

Yes, he is breathing with an half-open beak now...

Thanks for your help and kind words! God willing Balsa will start to recover real soon, I will buy Baytril soon and put him both on Baytril and Flagyl asap.

Thanks a lot for caring and for the help.

By the way: today I examinated him inside the beak again, and I clearly saw the mucous saliva again, this time in the up part of his mouth.

AZJourney wrote:

If you could get us a picture of the poops it would be good!

Here it is:




I took this picture just a few hours ago. As you may see, they are really watery, but they are a bit bigger than yesterday, but the color isn't good, is it?

Well, Teresa, it seems like Balsa is, indeed, very picky when it comes to food! He didn't ate any peas, he not even touched them...

Then I had the idea of giving him oat, and within a few minutes, there he was, eating bit by bit! I was SOOOO happy! But he's really weird when it comes to food, you know?? While he was eating oat, he looked at the peas and he totally avoid them, what a strange behaviour!!! He only likes some stuff, not the ordinary food, I've been noticing it for quite a long time ....

But then, I got worried... I don't know if it was due to the fact that he's been eating too less, but the thing is, after he ate, he stopped for a bit, and did those swallowing movements and then his crop started coming up and down, getting bigger and smaller... It was really weird, but I had already seen this once or twice when he first arrived....

Then after about 30 seconds/1 minute it stopped, but I stood there for a while, making sure everything was ok and to check if he was going to throw up, but thank God he didn't.

After that, he ate more, for a while.

Another thing, about the nasal discharge: today I went out for a couple of hours and when I came back home, I went to check him and I saw that the nasal discharge was dry and turned to a yellow colour! I took a picture, before cleaning up his beak, here it is:



And there is also another thing: do you remember when I mentioned, a couple of months ago, that I thought that maybe Balsa was still suffering a bit from Salmonella, and that there were some black feathers on the wing that he had injured? Well, a while ago, when I was examinating him, I remembered that, and I also verified that new feathers still hadn't totally covered that small area, on the hand section, so I touched it and felt something underneath, so I lifted one feather softly, and I saw this:



I guess it's Salmonella, isn't it???



Just a quick update: while I was writing this, I did a quick break to check on Balsa, and I was happy and thrilled at the same time, because his beak was totally closed!

Another thing: he keeps on having "glossy" eyes, but there is no eye discharge, at least for now.

I have one more question: which one is the right Baytril pack? I've been searching here : http://www.bayerpet.com.br/produtos/amigo.aspx?especie=1&categoria=5[url][/url][url][/url]

But I can't be sure, because when I put Balsa on Baytril in the past, you gave me the pills, so I never saw the box, and I can't remember how many mg they were...

If it really is Salmonella, I should administrate Synulox, right? I still have some pills here with me. And what about Flagyl, it's better to administrate it as well, what do you think?


Ok, my "book" is finished now... I thank you all in advance for all the help and care you've been giving to "my" dear Balsa, and I hope to have soon, because I'm really worried about "my" poor baby...

About the Baytril: the pills I sent you before were 50mg each (he'd need 1/7 pill per day), but if you can get the 15mg it would be even easier, 1/2 a pill per day. Pills are better than syrups, because they last longer.

No, don't give him Synulox. Baytril is as good for Salmonella, but that lump (on his 'hand') is in the wrong place to be Salmonella, and looks like a small cyst or tumour resulting from his injury.

Flagyl is a good idea. As it's not quite as urgent as the Baytril, I'll put some in the post for you. I'll send you some Nystatin too (0.3 ml twice a day), as those swallowing movements and contractions of the crop are suspicious, indicative of sour crop.
Do you still have the little measuring syringe, or do you need another?
Being Saturday night, I can only post on Monday, so you should get them Tuesday morning.

The mucus near his nostril can be gently wiped away with warm water with just a pinch of salt.

I'm glad he's eating something. My Piper doesn't eat the peas until I peel and halve them... Would that work for His Majesty?

Thanks for the info, Teresa. I will have that in mind, and I will try to get Baytril 15mg first thing in the morning, I will check the pharmacies that will be open around, so that he may start taking it asap.

I still have some Flagyl doses, but I will also try to buy more asap. Thank you for sending me some Nystatin, you've been such an angel for Balsa, thank you so much. I will let you know as soon as it arrives!

About the lamp, to tell you the truth he has it ever since I brought him home, and it is basicly on the same place he had Salmonella. I also thought it might be a tumour, because of the colour in the surroundings (a bit yellow), because I read a topic here on the site a while ago, about a little pigeon who was suffering from one, and the colour was similar, but I can't be sure until I take him to the vet, I guess....

So I should start with Flagyl asap, and then administrate Baytril as soon as I got it and he eats, right?

By the way, I already got the chance to read some stuff about sour crop on google, basicly most of the info is about chicken, but I guess it's very similar on pigeons.

For example, on this site: http://www.suite101.com/content/how-to-identify-and-treat-sour-crop-in-chickens-a235571 I identified at least those symptoms: "an affected bird may jerk its head around, trying to dislodge a blockage", "little if any interest in eating or drinking" as well as swallowing frequently, like if he was trying to make something go down...

By the way, I will also try what you suggested tomorrow: peel and halve the peas! I hope His Majesty, Balsão, appreciates it!

Thanks a lot for everything again, I hope you have a happy and peaceful night, I will keep you all updated soon!

Teresa wrote:

http://www.pigeonangels.com/t966-sour-crop-article

Thanks a lot for sharing, Teresa! Seems like you posted while I was writing my "book". eehhe

If possible, it would be a good idea to keep him warm -- even if it is just a hot water bottle at night.

Yes, that's exactly what I did. Thanks for the tip, tough... Unfortunately, I don't have my own place to treat him exactly as I wanted and he deserved, but God willing he will hang on and will get better soon. I wish I could take his pain, as the treatment in myself would be so much easier, but unfortunately that's not possible, so I will try my best to ease his pain and make him recover soon.

By the way, I already got the chance to read the link you sent me about the sour crop, and yes, he has many symptoms as well, maybe that's why he kept on swallowing after he was medicated (remember when I mentioned that), but of course, it's difficult to make a diagnosis without taking him to a vet...

And, of course, the stress he's been exposed to (before the injury and the last week, with all the heavy noise of the city celebrations , and probably the canker he suffered before must've helped a lot...

I can't wait for tomorrow, to put him on Flagyl and find Baytril to help him as brief as possible.

Thanks a lot, once more, Teresa.