sick baby Grizzle please help (video inside)

Hi all I've returned from christmas vacation to find that one of my new baby's has a respiratory problem :( The sound is a bit hard to explain and Im not sure how long this has been going on since my friend has been taking care of my birds. The best way to describe it is a wheezing sound it happens randomly and I did notice a slight nostril discharge. Please watch the video below. I dont have any meds to help at the moment but Im going to over night some Chevita CHLORTETRACYCLIN+ CAPS from JEDDS . It seems like its very broad and will help take care of my problem. Im open to any alternatives however.

Most of the sounds happen towards the end of the video
Sick Bird Video

Oh, the poor baby, he's sneezing so much! He doesn't, however, look very uncomfortable or visibly ill.

There are a number of antibiotics you can give him for respiratory infection (including ornithosis): The best are Tylan and Doxy-T, but other antibiotics of the Tetracycline group, like Doxycycline or Aureomycine are also effective. Baytril and Ciprofloxin are broad-spectrum antibiotics which are also effective, though not as effective.
I haven't used the CHLORTETRACYCLIN+ tabs you mean to order from Jedds, but containing Tetracyclin, they should work well.

Consider also two other possible causes for his sneezing, environmental causes and air sac mites:

Some birds are very susceptible to changes in temperature/humidity, drafts, scents (perfume, aftershave, perfumed candles, anything like that), and especially aerosol cleaning products like furniture polish, and smoke (from tobacco or other sources). Worst of all are fumes from overheated Teflon-coated pans -- those can kill birds very quickly, even in a different room. Could the baby have been exposed to any of the above in your absence?

Air sac mites cause extreme irritation and a lot of sneezing, but they're susceptible to Ivermectin, especially in injectable form.

Best wishes for the baby's improvement! Please keep us posted, and Happy New Year!

Hi thanks for the reply, so thats what a pigeon sneeze sounds like? Guys on the other forum think its canker, Im inclined to think not. THere is nothing wrong with the birds droppings so far.

Doxy-t this stuff? Click

I'd rather stick with pill form so that I know shes getting the dose correctly.

**EDIT**

Ah found Doxy-t on Siegels Click

pijipie wrote:

Hi thanks for the reply, so thats what a pigeon sneeze sounds like? Guys on the other forum think its canker, Im inclined to think not. THere is nothing wrong with the birds droppings so far.

Sneezing can be a diagnostic symptom in itself (the route I took when advising) but it can also be a precursor to other problems, notably PMV and canker. But having watched the video carefully a couple of times (poops included), I didn't see any of the other symptoms associated with these two diseases -- having said that, it's good to be vigilant.

Birds with canker show a decrease in activity, standing fluffed-up and feeling cold. The first sign in babies is usually a bald patch on the face and neck. Birds make swallowing motions, as if they have an obstruction in the throat, can stand with their necks extended (the so-called "penguin pose"), and the inside of their beak and throat is reddish rather than pink; in advanced cases it can turn greyish, with 'strings' of mucous between the throat and the roof of their mouth. The definitive diagnosis can be made if you see yellow/cream-coloured lumps in their beak or throat, but I've treated canker patients who didn't show that. The affected bird's breath and poops have an unpleasant smell, and diarrhea is common.

Birds with PMV develop balance problems and rapidly become unable to fly. Their head and/or body commonly leans to one side, they can't bear strong light, and when startled act panicked and confused. In serious cases they can walk in circles, or even backwards, and they hang down their head between their feet and twist their heads 180º, a posture known as "stargazing". Characteristic poops look like broken pieces of spaghetti in a pool of liquid.

So do keep an eye on him for any change in the symptoms, but for now I think that the antibiotic plus monitoring his environmental conditions (especially keeping him warm and away from drafts) should work.

All the best!

Teresa wrote:

pijipie wrote:

Hi thanks for the reply, so thats what a pigeon sneeze sounds like? Guys on the other forum think its canker, Im inclined to think not. THere is nothing wrong with the birds droppings so far.

Sneezing can be a diagnostic symptom in itself (the route I took when advising) but it can also be a precursor to other problems, notably PMV and canker. But having watched the video carefully a couple of times (poops included), I didn't see any of the other symptoms associated with these two diseases -- having said that, it's good to be vigilant.

Birds with canker show a decrease in activity, standing fluffed-up and feeling cold. The first sign in babies is usually a bald patch on the face and neck. Birds make swallowing motions, as if they have an obstruction in the throat, can stand with their necks extended (the so-called "penguin pose"), and the inside of their beak and throat is reddish rather than pink; in advanced cases it can turn greyish, with 'strings' of mucous between the throat and the roof of their mouth. The definitive diagnosis can be made if you see yellow/cream-coloured lumps in their beak or throat, but I've treated canker patients who didn't show that. The affected bird's breath and poops have an unpleasant smell, and diarrhea is common.

Birds with PMV develop balance problems and rapidly become unable to fly. Their head and/or body commonly leans to one side, they can't bear strong light, and when startled act panicked and confused. In serious cases they can walk in circles, or even backwards, and they hang down their head between their feet and twist their heads 180º, a posture known as "stargazing". Characteristic poops look like broken pieces of spaghetti in a pool of liquid.

So do keep an eye on him for any change in the symptoms, but for now I think that the antibiotic plus monitoring his environmental conditions (especially keeping him warm and away from drafts) should work.

All the best!

Yes she stands puffy and appeals cold, I have my little guys on a heating pad after I saw this. The one you saw in the video always appears to be tired whereas her brother is always walking around and even flying. The sick one does fly and wonder around just not as much as her brother. I can treat for Canker and the Respitory infection at the same time. I feel like I want to treat my flock now since the dad still feeds the sick one and the heatlthy one. Can I use Doxy-T with a Canker med ? And if so which one ? Im assuming I can't mix both in the water at the same time ?

Yes, you can treat with an antibiotic and canker med at the same time, but canker meds can't be given in the water. I use Flagyl tablets and occasionally Spartrix tablets.

This was taken from The Australian Pigeon Co:

Quote :

Either Spartrix or Flagyl tablets* can be used, however, Spartrix is more convenient to medicate the nestlings. The dose of Spartrix is one tablet per adult bird. Estimate how big the youngster is compared to the adult and give it this proportion of the tablet once daily until well. It is often good to also medicate both the nest mate and parents.

Duration of treatment: Spartrix should be given for 3 consecutive days, and Flagyl for 5. Any less than that, even if the manufacturers recommend it, is pointless and only increases the resistance of the infectious organism.

Hey Teresa I've been over at the other pigeon forum talking to this forum member named chris. He suggested I get from Foys as an Antiboitic "The Pink Stuff" which he/she ? Is kind enough to help make me make a suspension out of it. I got Canker meds from Jedds "MEDITRICH" which have some type of coating on them so the birds won't get sick, Im going to dose them all just to be sure. (Heres the link if you want to read about it Click)

New delay in getting meds though, UPS isn't working today so I won't get everything until Wednesday it appears. The little guy picked the worst time to get sick!

Babies are inside with the parents and they are on a heating pad. Im feeding the sick baby twice a day with Kaytee. I did observe him eatting and drinking on his own today which made me happy and I know hes getting enough water and food now. He's a bit skinny which is why I started manually feeding, the other baby bird is much stronger and beats this one to the punch when the parents decide its feeding time.


Thanks again Teresa and Happy Holidays!

Hi Mike,

The composition of Meditrich is Metronidazole -- same as Flagyl -- but the 100 mg dose is MASSIVE, I would never give a baby more than 25 mg a day, and that for aggressive treatment of a very advanced infection. I presume, as they say that you only administer 1 pill, that it's a slow-release pill, probably deliverung 25 mg a day over a period of 4 days?... Your baby doesn't have diarrhea, so that looks hopeful, but most of the cases of severe canker I've treated had diarrhea, and some vomited a lot, and the pill wouldn't have stayed in the system long enough.
Incidentally, experience has taught me that it isn't the canker med that induces vomiting, it's obstructions caused by the canker lesions combined with a resulting yeast infection.
I'd be very interested to hear your comments about using this, as a one-pill treatment for canker would be very handy!

As for the 'pink stuff', I've checked it out and it's TMS. I have it in the house, and have used it often, mostly with convalescent birds who might vomit severely if given Baytril, and also for smaller birds, like my swift.
You should note it is indicated for intestinal infections, and its use as a broad-spectrum antibiotic is more limited. I have never seen it prescribed for respiratory infections.
My vet's prescription for using it for a pigeon is 4 mg Trimetroprim + 20 mg Sulphametoxazol (pure active ingredients) per 350 mg pigeon body weight per day.

Good luck, please keep us posted!

Teresa wrote:

Hi Mike,

The composition of Meditrich is Metronidazole -- same as Flagyl -- but the 100 mg dose is MASSIVE, I would never give a baby more than 25 mg a day, and that for aggressive treatment of a very advanced infection. I presume, as they say that you only administer 1 pill, that it's a slow-release pill, probably deliverung 25 mg a day over a period of 4 days?... Your baby doesn't have diarrhea, so that looks hopeful, but most of the cases of severe canker I've treated had diarrhea, and some vomited a lot, and the pill wouldn't have stayed in the system long enough.
Incidentally, experience has taught me that it isn't the canker med that induces vomiting, it's obstructions caused by the canker lesions combined with a resulting yeast infection.


I'd be very interested to hear your comments about using this, as a one-pill treatment for canker would be very handy!

As for the 'pink stuff', I've checked it out and it's TMS. I have it in the house, and have used it often, mostly with convalescent birds who might vomit severely if given Baytril, and also for smaller birds, like my swift.
You should note it is indicated for intestinal infections, and its use as a broad-spectrum antibiotic is more limited. I have never seen it prescribed for respiratory infections.
My vet's prescription for using it for a pigeon is 4 mg Trimetroprim + 20 mg Sulphametoxazol (pure active ingredients) per 350 mg pigeon body weight per day.

Good luck, please keep us posted!

Hey Teresa thanks again for the reply, I was going to cut the pill up for my babies , yeah if I cut it into 4's I should get roughly 25mg's thanks for the headsup I was going to do half a pill per baby. What would be your recommendation for the adults?

**EDIT**
Been reading that 1/8 of a pill ( cut into 4's then cut into halves) twice a day for 3 or 4 days ? and half a pill a day for the parents for 3 days? Let me know if that sounds acceptable. All this would happen at lights out so that the parents don't feed their pills to the babies and over medicate.

As for the pink stuff when you say TMS that means Trimetroprim/Sulphametoxazol ? Chrias on the other forum seemed quite persistent about getting it and using it for the respitory infection. I got the feeling he's been around the block a few times, lets hope hes right as I spent with shipping over 110$ alone just for that med!

Thanks in advance!

Update Meds have arrived, got the meditrich this morning. The instructions say 1 tablet per bird (I'm assuming they are referring to adult?) Still waiting on the other med.

Hi Mike,

Don't regret getting the TMS, it's a good antibiotic and very gentle, and it's maybe all that is needed at this stage, especially if the baby is not sneezing much now (otherwise I suppose you would have said so).

As for the Meditrich, I can't really give you specific advice as the drug is new on me. The manufacturers say that it is a one-pill treatment, so that the idea is to give it to the pigeon only once. If that's the case, the adults should get one pill in the evening, and the youngsters half that amount at the same time.
Now if you plan on using it as normal Metronidazole, 25mg/day (youngsters) and 30mg/day (adults) are the highest dosages I would be comfortable administering, and that for acute, confirmed canker. It really is best to ask the manufacturers, or someone who may have used this product already, for their recommendations, because I know there are safe slow-release antibiotics (one injection = a full course of treatment), but slow-release Metronidazole is a new one on me. And this drug can have side effects when used in large amounts, including nausea and loss of balance.

Now when you say you've been getting advice on another forum from a member called Chris/Chrias, do you mean Charis? If so, absolutely trust her advice -- what she doesn't know about pigeons would fit on the back of a postage stamp!!!

It IS Charis! And she's a SHE... I just found your post on PT!

From what Charis said about 'cutting up the tablets', it seems that she doses out the Meditrich as she would with Flagyl, and she's the best person to ask about how much to give each adult and baby. Heck, I'll ask her myself, lol!

Right, this is what Charis said about the Meditrich:

Matilda wrote:

Meditrich is metronidazole [flagyl ] and I prefer it because It's coated, which eliminates the vomiting …really helpful with a very sick bird. You can give a whole pill as an initial dose and then cut down to a weight appropriate dose there after for the rest of the treatment.

And after reading the remaining of her advice, she doesn't seem to think there was a respiratory infection in the first place, but that there was as much of a chance that it could be sinus canker, so the recommendation of the TMS was to act as a gentle, broad-spectrum antibiotic against possible secondary infections -- a purpose for which it is well suited.

I read everything really quick. Just wanted to ask one thing. Is there good air ventilation for the Pigeon?

Yes they do, even though they have their own room in my house (they free fly in all day) which has full direct sunlight they also have a very nice hepa filter and I leave the door cracked to cycle in new air. I've had the parents in this place for over a year now with no problems. Hell they even have their own heater as well :) They are well taken care of water changed 3 times a day, all poop is always cleaned up right away. Their cage is cleaned top to bottom once a week and I change all the towels they sleep on daily. I use a scent free deterengent on all their towels and they are washed on sanitize mode on my washer. The sick baby is resonding well to the meds for Canker the sneeze has just about stopped all together and I haven't even given her any "Pink stuff" yet. Teresa incase your wondering the med that Charis suggested works great! I highly recommend it!

Greetings from the babies! Baby and Salty

Wonderful update, Mike!

I'm so happy to hear the baby is much better! And I'm going to add Meditrich to my first-aid kit -- it's great to know that, as canker gets stronger and more difficult to erase, new meds are coming up on the market that give the birds extra protection!

The babies are SO CUTE!!!! Love the photo, and the way they look so contented!
Those are VIP pigeons you have there, what a great life!!!

Wow might i say youve got amazingly gorgeous pigeons. Awesome set up, One of my pigeons can fly. The others has to new of feathers coming in on one wing (idk what happen lol) Hes new. The other is a baby. but the mother responds to "Fly to your perch" she will....(most of the time lol)