My Babies First BIG Problem

Well So Far So Good Except....His Beak It Dislocates! I just watched as i showed my girlfriend. It took a couple days to see it happen again. Because I only was observing I wasn't attentionally trying to show his beak dislocate. But it randomly happens every once in awhile. Anyone have any stories I can hear on how to solve this problem or if its normal? Im a little worried of my pigeon friend......And to recap on "Homie Bird" I got many videos coming soon. and the new friend "Homer" Has mated with "Trinity". I will allow them to be mates outside in the wild and show a video of a beautiful place i will release. Both "Trinity and "Homer"
( I never got around to showing a video of me releasing the parents :(

I'm so sorry Homie is having problems with his beak...

Never having seen a close-up of his beak, whether in the normal position or dislocated, I can only guess... but three possibilities come to mind:

The first one is cross-beak, or scissor-beak, but this is the least likely, as babies are born like that, and it gets progressively worse. The top and bottom parts of the beak are not correctly aligned and close at an angle, looking crossed over when the beak is closed. Pigeons with cross-beak often have to be hand fed, as they may not be able to eat and drink for themselves.
You can see a thread about a pigeon with this problem here:
http://www.pigeonangels.com/t2056-taylor-my-special-beak-pigeon?highlight=scissor+beak
This is quite an extreme case, and unfortunately Taylor has died since, though he had the best care (and carer) imaginable.

The second possibility is an injury to the beak, caused by impact or, occasionally, incorrect hand feeding when young. I don't know if a vet could solve this problem, as there are different degrees of injury, but if this is the cause then he needs to be seen by a vet very soon (i.e. yesterday!) as fractures heal very quickly in pigeons, in fact the breaks start to knit together in a matter of days, and once they set in a new position they can't be corrected.

Last, and probably most likely, he could have canker (Trichomoniasis) in his beak, a growing lesion that is pushing his beak out of place. I mentioned before that the lack of feathers in his face and neck suggested he had canker, and it should be treated, as it can be fatal. You said at the time that you didn't know what canker was, and I don't know if you had a look at this link, so here it is again:
http://www.pigeonangels.com/t238-canker-trichomoniasis
Canker lesions often take the form of hard yellow growths in the pigeon's mouth, throat, or roof of the mouth, and the inside of his mouth will often be reddish, rather than pink.
If you see this you need to get help for him FAST -- he needs Flagyl (Metronidazole), 25mg a day, for at least 7 days, or until the growths disappear. An antibiotic is usually prescribed at the same time, to clear any secondary infections.

Better still, it would help if you could get someone experienced to look at him, if you can't take him to a vet. Please let me have your exact location, and I'll try to find someone with rehab experience to look at him and advise you.

Im here all the time. I am paranoid about this "canker" i check my birds beak all the time. It seems like its either the first or second. Because it is bottom beak that looks out of place. Just yesterday i seen it completely dislocate for the first time. Im guessing its most likely the 2nd one u mentioned (incorrect hand feeding) i was using a human baby bottle ( i never used that before) and i always used a syringe in my previous past....errr. Vet eh freaking pigeon to the vet this sux lmao

Oh and I'll also mention. He is eating on his own,. (has been for weeks) Eats alot too,. num num num, Favourite is Life cereal, i seen pigeons go nuts over cherrios befores. But nothing like life cereal lol. (just for a treat) i give him the wild bird seed (take out the lil sunflower seeds and give them to the rabbit) all our pet food gets recycled some how. If we only had a mouse or a rat id give them the rabbits left overs too lmao

ummmm good news is my baby pigeon slept in the same bed as me last night for the first time.....it was awesome

Just checking him out some more noticed he was staring down on the ground with a lil dislocation going on, so i massaged his beak very gentley he did some crazy weird "death dance" ok ok ok sorry for calling it a "Death dance" but i say that because well he looked like he was gonna croke but then i grabbed him massaged his beak some more he was perfect in about 2 - 4 seconds. With a normal looking beak.....now from what i seen there . scared the jesus right out of my preachers hands. but i handled it within 2 - 4 seconds. His beak looks normal, and is continues to be normal. idk if a massage everyday wud be good, Also could be damaging so i dont press on the beak, just around it and underneath it, kinda like how i pet pigeons. I know i sound crazy i just cant afford a vet i need cats to be fixed if anything. Cant be a canker, that stuff looks yellow and looks like a wart (well looks like a wart to me). I think i just may have messed him up when he was hand fed. i feel like an idiot. never seen this before either. hope it fixes it self doesnt become permanent

Are you in London? There's a really good pigeon rehabber there that might help...

no i'm not. I tried adding you to msn. Man this birds beak is getting worse too ....damn it. I was holding it for about an hr, he had a drink after. He is eating.....today not eating tho. Could be because i slept with him in the bed last night, he is a lil tired....err my poor buddy. Ill just hold his beak together by resting my hand underneath his bottom beak...seems to place the beak exactly where it suppose to be...even after i place him back in the cage.....but only takes mins to go right back to weird crooked look.....id take a picture but hes too tired to be bothered with anything right now

Not knowing where you are, I can't help find anyone to help you... but maybe if you have a look yourself:
http://www.pigeonangels.com/f8-pigeon-resources
Try to find a rehabber in your area, if you can't take him to the vet.

Sleeping in your bed shouldn't have done him any harm, but it's too risky, because you could roll over and... well, I'm sure you get the picture!

About msn, I don't have a chance to use msn live, because I work full time, and I also have a family and lots of pets and patients to look after -- my time on the computer is often 5 minutes here and 10 minutes there, after work, and it's never enough! But I've been popping into PA at every opportunity today and trying my best...

TONS OF PLACES. well for just a drop in, Your doing DAaarn good i tell you.. Thee best lol. Thanks tho.

Update: Hes been sleeping all day im hoping he needed it. (yeh i know birds shouldnt sleep all day) Massaging it really helps alot. Not really massaging i dont move my hand very much on his beak, just ...outskirts of it....even the outskrits i notice can be to much for him. So i spend most of the time just holding the bottom of his beak in place. just resting my hand will do that for him. by Tommorow ill try to do the same thing and again and again, sux i just got a job a phew days ago, now im going to work worried

Cross Beak Scissors beak im almost convinced this is it. It also says to find the right place and hold the beak together for several mins, 2 - 3 times a day. Im already ahead of what im suppose to be doing for Scissors beak

THANKS PIGEON ANGELS! Hope we all can continue to learn from each other and experiences! Good luck Bird Owners

http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=15+1829&aid=2752Scissors beak

Interesting article, but not about pigeons.
We have better right here in PA, starting with advice from an expert avian vet (Dr Hauk) for a baby pigeon with cross-beak named Precious. Here are his recommendations:

Jackie\'s Mom wrote:

I spoke directly with Dr. Hauck this morning. Explained the condition with Precious' beak.

Dr. Hauck feels that it can be corrected, but that time is of the essence at this point. With Precious being now about 33 days old and not fully fledged the cartilage has not yet turned to bone. The beak is still soft enough to be corrected with pressure. By the time a pigeon is fully feathered it is too late to correct by any other manner other than surgery.

He suggests that the beak be taped at the tip into place and removed perodically to allow for feeding. The longer the pressure is on the beak in the proper position the faster it will correct. You must be careful that the tape does not interfer with the nostrils. His concern with this method is that it might cause stress to the baby which could cause complications. If her beak is to be taped she must be watched very carefully for any signs of stress.

The second method if taping is not possible is to hold the baby against your body, allowing her to feel secure and then holding the beak in place for periods of 10/15 minutes as often as possible during the day. The more amount of time that the pressure is exerted in the correct position the faster the correction will be accomplished.

I know that you have said that Precious holds her little mouth open like a Robin, but if you need to open her beak for reasons of feeding or medicating it is imperative that you open the beak from the front tip and feed directly from front to back. Shifting of the beak would only be counter productive to any and all pressure needed to shift her beak back into the correct position.

Dr. Hauck does not recommend trimming of the beak, as once it is started it becomes a lifelong procedure that will continually need to be done.

This kind of corrective exercise only works before the beak hardens completely. I'm not sure how old Homie is now, but I think he may be too old for that.

Either way, we're just going on your assessment of the situation here. From what I've seen, a pigeon's beak is either crossed, or not. If it is dislocated one moment and not the next, there's a very good chance the beak could be broken or the jaw dislocated. Either way, Homie could be in a considerable amount of pain and needs to be seen by an expert.

Any chance you could post new photos of him?

Maybe Im out of line here .... BUT, You really should KNOW for certain what the issue with the beak is before you do anything further. If the beak is injured... and you are pushing on it, the bird would be in a TON of PAIN! Pictures would do a HEAP of help if you could post a few!

Yeah your a LIL bit out of line lol. I say i gentle place my finger under the beak. Yes its scissor beak, Hes doing ok so far, He had spazzums the first day i posted this. But now that ive taking part in fixing the issue. He is eating alot more, he is more active, he is more interactive as well. He talking more. and is doing absolutely fantastic. No dislocations today, only 1 or 2 yesterday. First day....about 10 - 15 times. From my treatment the bird is doing alot better

I made a lil video on my facebook to show my friends i took it from my mobile phone, There is not much to see now that the issue has been almost 100% resolved.

SplizzlahSavage wrote:

Massaging it really helps alot. Not really massaging i dont move my hand very much on his beak, just ...outskirts of it....even the outskrits i notice can be to much for him. So i spend most of the time just holding the bottom of his beak in place. just resting my hand will do that for him:

AZJourney wrote:

Maybe Im out of line here .... BUT, You really should KNOW for certain what the issue with the beak is before you do anything further. If the beak is injured... and you are pushing on it, the bird would be in a TON of PAIN! Pictures would do a HEAP of help if you could post a few!

sorry cant post that video i sware in it, Unless its editted

aND i been extremely busy with my house, a new job and a whole alot of other things

I have lots of raw clips still too i need to piece together

So happy he is doing good now omg

If I didn;t have so much faith in the Lord Jesus. Then Idk what I'd do. But i feel like I rely that. This is God's Creature. and its my Will to do whatever is possible for his survival....

JMO . . .
No, Jenn, you were not the least bit out of line. In fact, your post was spot on.

SplizzlahSavage,
A dislocated beak and a sissor beak are two different issues.
Sissor beak is when the upper and lower beak cross rather than come together. The bird is still able to open and shut their beak.
A bird with a dislocated beak would probably not even be able to open and close it. And it would also probably be quite painfull. Think of it as your jaw being dislocated.

Could you post a close up (still shot) of your bird's beak?

SplizzlahSavage wrote:

Yeah your a LIL bit out of line lol. I say i gentle place my finger under the beak. Yes its scissor beak, Hes doing ok so far, He had spazzums the first day i posted this. But now that ive taking part in fixing the issue. He is eating alot more, he is more active, he is more interactive as well. He talking more. and is doing absolutely fantastic. No dislocations today, only 1 or 2 yesterday. First day....about 10 - 15 times. From my treatment the bird is doing alot better

I made a lil video on my facebook to show my friends i took it from my mobile phone, There is not much to see now that the issue has been almost 100% resolved.

Jenn will never be out of line for as long as trees grow upwards! She's one of the most caring people I've ever met, and with tons of experience at rehabilitating birds.
She's only concerned for Homie's well being, and with good cause, because you're going about healing him by trial and error, and without due concern for whether he's suffering.
If you cared for him as much as you say you do, you would have got a second opinion from someone experienced. I sent you a link to Brad's page. Have you considered contacting him? How can you LOL around the place at witty posts and small stuff when Homie's plight makes everyone else want to cry?!!!!! There, I've said it, you made me that mad!

You say his problem is almost 100% resolved -- like you know...

SplizzlahSavage wrote:

Im here all the time. I am paranoid about this "canker" i check my birds beak all the time. It seems like its either the first or second. Because it is bottom beak that looks out of place. Just yesterday i seen it completely dislocate for the first time. Im guessing its most likely the 2nd one u mentioned (incorrect hand feeding) i was using a human baby bottle ( i never used that before) and i always used a syringe in my previous past....errr. Vet eh freaking pigeon to the vet this sux lmao

Oh and I'll also mention. He is eating on his own,. (has been for weeks) Eats alot too,. num num num, Favourite is Life cereal, i seen pigeons go nuts over cherrios befores. But nothing like life cereal lol. (just for a treat) i give him the wild bird seed (take out the lil sunflower seeds and give them to the rabbit) all our pet food gets recycled some how. If we only had a mouse or a rat id give them the rabbits left overs too lmao

ummmm good news is my baby pigeon slept in the same bed as me last night for the first time.....it was awesome

Also, A squeaker should never sleep in a bed with a human. period. They are babies...unable to move away if you accidently roll onto them, leaving them to suffocate or worse get injured. Which at this age being so young, is HIGHLY possible. PLEASE--- reconsider, and find him a cage that can be placed next to your bed, perhaps on a night stand...so you can keep an eye on him that way. You could even make a nest from a rolled up towel for him in his cage. But to have him in the bed with you is not a good idea.

I don't need someone experienced I am experienced I been raising pigeons for 20 yrs. Its just indoor pigeons im Experiencing in the last year....And this baby ive had for 2 - 3 monthes. The picture I have is a picture of him at about 3 - 4 weeks old. He was just yawning.

The scissor beak started only recently But I have noticed displacements. like gaps ibetween the bottom and top beak....I know what im talking about. Maybe I did injury him during feeding., whatever was causing the dislocations is GONE.

I got help from the admin here. And lead me to various websites lead to information which I needed. so thank you admins. and thank you comment's for your help and support. It feels great talking to people experienced such as me in the Pigeon field....

And sleeping with a hamster would be just as dangerous But my hamster use to escape her cage just to rest by my head...I don't plan on sleeping with my pigeon lol. I just did that once because i was worried. And how do you know I even sleep anyway? my body will go numb if life is around it. Meditation and relaxation are great tool to be calm, and your mind focused on what matters the most. When i woke up that day. before i opened my eyes. that bird was on my mind And he looked soo happy and i never seen such improvement after that day.

Plus my girlfriend gave up one of her pillow cases as xtra support for the feet. Which may have been causing alot of pain for the bird not being able to perch just yet. Perching is not a problem any more. Today i woke up seen him perched! He must be perching on his own now :D:D:D

Ill take a picture right now as 1/20/2012 - 2:35pm EST time


Just give me a little more time I'll make that video. Maybe you'll see a bit of the scissor beak, Right now he is doing perfect. It only took a day or two to recovery. But i noticed differences in his beak positioning for about 2 weeks. Only the past phew days is when i noticed dislocations. And It's been 2 days now. He seems perfect

Teresa wrote:

SplizzlahSavage wrote:

Yeah your a LIL bit out of line lol. I say i gentle place my finger under the beak. Yes its scissor beak, Hes doing ok so far, He had spazzums the first day i posted this. But now that ive taking part in fixing the issue. He is eating alot more, he is more active, he is more interactive as well. He talking more. and is doing absolutely fantastic. No dislocations today, only 1 or 2 yesterday. First day....about 10 - 15 times. From my treatment the bird is doing alot better

I made a lil video on my facebook to show my friends i took it from my mobile phone, There is not much to see now that the issue has been almost 100% resolved.

Jenn will never be out of line for as long as trees grow upwards! She's one of the most caring people I've ever met, and with tons of experience at rehabilitating birds.
She's only concerned for Homie's well being, and with good cause, because you're going about healing him by trial and error, and without due concern for whether he's suffering.
If you cared for him as much as you say you do, you would have got a second opinion from someone experienced. I sent you a link to Brad's page. Have you considered contacting him? How can you LOL around the place at witty posts and small stuff when Homie's plight makes everyone else want to cry?!!!!! There, I've said it, you made me that mad!

You say his problem is almost 100% resolved -- like you know...

All I gotta say to you is
"You cannot do a kindness to soon, for you never know how soon..... it will be to late"

AZJourney wrote:

SplizzlahSavage wrote:

Im here all the time. I am paranoid about this "canker" i check my birds beak all the time. It seems like its either the first or second. Because it is bottom beak that looks out of place. Just yesterday i seen it completely dislocate for the first time. Im guessing its most likely the 2nd one u mentioned (incorrect hand feeding) i was using a human baby bottle ( i never used that before) and i always used a syringe in my previous past....errr. Vet eh freaking pigeon to the vet this sux lmao

Oh and I'll also mention. He is eating on his own,. (has been for weeks) Eats alot too,. num num num, Favourite is Life cereal, i seen pigeons go nuts over cherrios befores. But nothing like life cereal lol. (just for a treat) i give him the wild bird seed (take out the lil sunflower seeds and give them to the rabbit) all our pet food gets recycled some how. If we only had a mouse or a rat id give them the rabbits left overs too lmao

ummmm good news is my baby pigeon slept in the same bed as me last night for the first time.....it was awesome

Also, A squeaker should never sleep in a bed with a human. period. They are babies...unable to move away if you accidently roll onto them, leaving them to suffocate or worse get injured. Which at this age being so young, is HIGHLY possible. PLEASE--- reconsider, and find him a cage that can be placed next to your bed, perhaps on a night stand...so you can keep an eye on him that way. You could even make a nest from a rolled up towel for him in his cage. But to have him in the bed with you is not a good idea.

SplizzlahSavage wrote:

I don't need someone experienced I am experienced I been raising pigeons for 20 yrs.

With all due respect, SplizzlahSavage, that's a pretty cocky statement to make.
Especially since you're not even sure your bird has a scissor beak or a dislocated beak.

Just a thought to ponder . . .
It would be a darn good idea to take heed to what is being suggested to you.
Not only for your benefit but most importantly for the bird's welfare.

I am cocky, But ignore my cockyness, See the facts ok? I said his beak dislocates!, and i said i know its scissor beak. Yes i said it could of been a injury. What difference does it make? I fixed the problem ,. and i told you how to solve it.....I have a video it shows exactly what ive done. Its on my camera....Ill leave a sticky note so i can deliver it to my cpu. I'm sorry for yall misunderstanding of what and how I do things. But all due to respect. I'm sorry for being cocky, But when i didn;t do anything for my birds in the past, (not knowing what to do) I seen alot of suffering, I cant help but to at least "try" to save these birds. Being a Angel. a TRUE Angel. I did and will continue doing whatever i can for these birds. Does that mean going to the mall to get a syringe to feed orally to my pigeons/birds I will. Even if its 8am, Even if im at work, i will leave work to save my animals, I love my ANimals, And there isn;t one time I had one not survive without my impact of support threw being a savior like Jesus Christ, Except im saving animals, Ive saved 10+ stray dogs, ive directed cats to safer areas (outside they were on busy intersection, very busy road) Ive saved wild birds, U know what tho? Its all about give or take. Your gonna take what you know, or your gonna give it your best and do anything for your birds,
Research, Prepare, Consideration, Talking to experienced , going to pigeon angels, and all these I mention, Are the steps to saving a life. I follow you guys i respect that you have quite the knowledge too, Its like you guys dont believe me that my birds beak dislocates. Thats so sad becuz i feel emotionally like you guys dont trust me.

SplizzlahSavage wrote:

I am cocky, But ignore my cockyness, See the facts ok?

Again, with all due respect, we don't need nor have the time to entertain cockiness here.

With that said I appreciate that you have the desire to help animals.
The point I was trying to make was you might want to pay attention to suggestions given, rather than saying you don't need somebody with 'experience' because you are experienced.

There's always room to learn.

Even the most experienced people here will take advice from their vets and their fellow rehabbers and give it consideration. Two heads always think better than one, and nobody can be an expert in absolutely every area relating to birds.
You have helped a lot of animals, kept pigeons and worked in a pet shop, and that's good experience -- but it's not the same as being a licenced rehabber, or an avian vet. Those are the experts in the field, when it comes to sick or injured animals. When I spend time I don't have writing long posts with advice from my vet or a rehabber I trust, to try to help you and Homie, naturally I despair when you don't want to listen, and brush it aside as unnecessary trash.

The question here isn't whether others trust you, or what they think of you, in fact it's not about you at all -- it's a question of an injured squeaker that may not be getting the help he needs, because you refuse to believe that he doesn't have cross-beak.
You may continue to think as you choose, but just so you are absolutely sure of my position, having looked again at the earlier videos, and also the new photo of Homie, he doesn't have cross-beak, never had.
So, if you're absolutely sure that he doesn't have palatal canker (are you?), he must have had a dislocated jaw or a fracture. And in those cases, any movement /manipulation could, as Jenn said, have caused incredible pain. I'm sure that you've been trying to help him with massage etc, but do you even know what the symptoms of pain are in a pigeon? Or were you perhaps expecting him to say 'ouch'?

This site isn't called Pigeon Angels for nothing. Pigeons come first. A true Pigeon Angel won't be satisfied with doing 'his' best for a bird in his care, he should do THE best! Reading a couple of articles about parrots, making your mind up prematurely and being cocky and defensive when somebody says something you don't agree with, doesn't help anybody, much less Homie.
I've been hoping that gradually, with good examples and encouragement, you might fulfill the potential to be a force for good -- to leave behind the urge to 'train' animals for no other purpose than your entertainment, to stop submitting them to conditions that are not appropriate for them, like wilfully separating a baby from his parents so you could have your own toy, and exposing him to smoke, noise, loneliness and even what could be considered experimentation. You haven't improved, and you set yourself up as an expert and an equal to Jesus... there's no answer to that.

I'm not mad any more, I'm disappointed and I feel cold inside. I will no longer make excuses for you, or delete your posts and videos that show evidence of irresponsibility and neglect, before other, more vocal members tear you apart. Don't take my word for it, post the same videos and comments in a bigger forum like Pigeon Talk or Pigeon And Pet Chat, and see what happens...

I hope and pray that Homie is getting better, and that you see the light and give him what he needs, rather then what you think he should have.

Ain't I talking about the advice, Ain't I work at a pet shop that has expert vet, with nursing dedgree's? Why would you say i brush this asside as trash I wouldn;t be posting if I didn;t have something to listen to. You've mistaken me for someone else. and why you say I experminating ,. Pigeon is not loney he sits beside me all day, And i still own his Mother! She will be released when spring arrives and theres more food.

This is my Bird Homie, There may be many other cases out there and to people reading this for farther infomation on bird issues. Don't take every bird as Homie is. Homie has wild parents, He is very strong unlike most tame birds. This tame bird means bisness.

I guess I don't really have much else to say from the previous replies. What am i suppose to do. Prove to a bunch of admins? prove what I told you i have no proof from the dislocations because the issue has been resolved. can we drop it so i can post another thread lol