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 Sick Pigeons Please help

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Squid



Posts : 22
Join date : 2009-09-30
Age : 53
Location : Surrey UK

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PostSubject: Sick Pigeons Please help   Sick Pigeons Please help Icon_minitimeTue Oct 27, 2009 4:55 am

Hiya,
I joined this forum a while ago when I rescued an unfledged pigeon which had landed in my garden, some of you may remember...
I am now very concerned about the pigeons in my area, I have found 2 dead ones very recently and yesterday caught a sick one, put it in a box kept it warm but within the hour it had passed away....today I can see one having difficulty flying on to my bird table....I think poison can be ruled out as all others birds seem fit and healthly...can I also add that all the birds I have found look perfectly healthy, no sign of injury at all....I have spoken to my neighbour who is also finding dead ones in and around the area (he is the local farmer)
I have had a look around the forum but cant see any post relating to this being a problem for anyone else...
Any help would be very much appreciated, I am very concerned...
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Matilda
Special Pigeon Angel
Matilda

Posts : 9198
Join date : 2009-01-11
Location : Pacific Northwest of the United States of America

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PostSubject: Re: Sick Pigeons Please help   Sick Pigeons Please help Icon_minitimeTue Oct 27, 2009 6:46 am

While I don't know about Pigeons turning up dead in the UK, I hope others will respond that live near you. Are these Wood Pigeons or ferals?
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Squid



Posts : 22
Join date : 2009-09-30
Age : 53
Location : Surrey UK

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PostSubject: Re: Sick Pigeons Please help   Sick Pigeons Please help Icon_minitimeTue Oct 27, 2009 6:59 am

Thanks Matilda....ohhh have i posted in the wrong section...i am sorry
They are all wood pigeons...
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Matilda
Special Pigeon Angel
Matilda

Posts : 9198
Join date : 2009-01-11
Location : Pacific Northwest of the United States of America

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PostSubject: Re: Sick Pigeons Please help   Sick Pigeons Please help Icon_minitimeTue Oct 27, 2009 7:14 am

I've emailed Cynthia and asked her to comment. She shoule be along shortly.
I'm so sorry this is happening.
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AZWhitefeather
Owner/Administrator
AZWhitefeather

Posts : 10863
Join date : 2009-01-11
Location : Arizona Southwestern United States

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PostSubject: Re: Sick Pigeons Please help   Sick Pigeons Please help Icon_minitimeTue Oct 27, 2009 7:14 am

Squid wrote:
Thanks Matilda....ohhh have i posted in the wrong section...i am sorry
They are all wood pigeons...

Hi Squid,
You're fine where you posted. We might have added the Wood pigeon forum since you last visited.
I can get your thread moved, no worries.

The main thing is, the situation at hand. I'm so sorry to hear about the pigeons. Sick Pigeons Please help 319297

Could you give us your general UK location? It's possible one of our other UK members is nearby you and may be able to assist you in sorting out this sad situation.

_________________
Cindy

A Pigeon's Prayer
Please watch over us while we fly,
Keeping us safe from the predators that share the sky.

If we become ill or injured in any way,
Please lead us to safety where we are welcome to stay.
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Squid



Posts : 22
Join date : 2009-09-30
Age : 53
Location : Surrey UK

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PostSubject: Re: Sick Pigeons Please help   Sick Pigeons Please help Icon_minitimeTue Oct 27, 2009 7:49 am

Hiya and thank you, i have since phoned defra who say they are vermin and they are not interested unless i have found 10 or more dead in my garden in one day....i am disgusted...my neighbour is out all day so i cant ask him how many he has found exactly, but i will do tonight...
defra have made me feel stupid, he said he could walk down the street and see 3 dead ones in one day? is my concern really that pathetic? Seeing red/mad I mean what is it with us humans ? are we so self centred we no longer care for our lovely wildlife? God, i am so angry....
matilda & fancy feathers, thanks I am in between reigate and dorking in the southeast uk
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Matilda
Special Pigeon Angel
Matilda

Posts : 9198
Join date : 2009-01-11
Location : Pacific Northwest of the United States of America

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PostSubject: Re: Sick Pigeons Please help   Sick Pigeons Please help Icon_minitimeTue Oct 27, 2009 7:53 am

Squid wrote:
Hiya and thank you, i have since phoned defra who say they are vermin and they are not interested unless i have found 10 or more dead in my garden in one day....i am disgusted...my neighbour is out all day so i cant ask him how many he has found exactly, but i will do tonight...
defra have made me feel stupid, he said he could walk down the street and see 3 dead ones in one day? is my concern really that pathetic? Seeing red/mad I mean what is it with us humans ? are we so self centred we no longer care for our lovely wildlife? God, i am so angry....matilda & fancy feathers, thanks I am in between reigate and dorking in th
ide southeast uk

You are not stupid, rather the ignorant person that trioed to make you feel that way. Don't buy into that control for one second. Being angry is very healthy. It's a horrible situation.
Those poor birds.
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AZWhitefeather
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AZWhitefeather

Posts : 10863
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Location : Arizona Southwestern United States

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PostSubject: Re: Sick Pigeons Please help   Sick Pigeons Please help Icon_minitimeTue Oct 27, 2009 8:22 am

Squid wrote:
Hiya and thank you, i have since phoned defra who say they are vermin and they are not interested unless i have found 10 or more dead in my garden in one day....i am disgusted...my neighbour is out all day so i cant ask him how many he has found exactly, but i will do tonight...
defra have made me feel stupid, he said he could walk down the street and see 3 dead ones in one day?

* is my concern really that pathetic?
Sick Pigeons Please help 64198

** I mean what is it with us humans ? are we so self centred we no longer care for our lovely wildlife?

*** God, i am so angry
....
matilda & fancy feathers, thanks

**** I am in between reigate and dorking in the southeast uk


Appreciate the update, Squid.
I'm sorry you were met with such a negative attitude with defra.

* Absolutely not.

** That's an excellent point.

*** And rightfully so. It's so incredibly exasperating sometimes.

**** This is good to know. If you're comfortable doing so, you might want to update your profile in the event something comes up so we can expedite with helping you.

Please do keep us posted on how things are going.

_________________
Cindy

A Pigeon's Prayer
Please watch over us while we fly,
Keeping us safe from the predators that share the sky.

If we become ill or injured in any way,
Please lead us to safety where we are welcome to stay.
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plamenh
Special Pigeon Angel
plamenh

Posts : 881
Join date : 2009-09-10
Location : Johannesburg, South Africa

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PostSubject: Re: Sick Pigeons Please help   Sick Pigeons Please help Icon_minitimeTue Oct 27, 2009 10:57 am

I would not rule the poison out, poisoned corn is too big for other birds to swallow but not for pigeons.
If you find another bird unable to fly, give liquid calcium, lot of fluids and/or egg white with syringe.
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Squid



Posts : 22
Join date : 2009-09-30
Age : 53
Location : Surrey UK

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PostSubject: Re: Sick Pigeons Please help   Sick Pigeons Please help Icon_minitimeTue Oct 27, 2009 11:18 am

Thank you, would the calcivet i use for my parrots be ok? and probably the same dosage as they are pretty much the same size in general?
Sorry, i meant to say, i also keep special charcoal which is give to to parrots who may have been poisoned by zinc or other toxins....would this be safe aswell?
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plamenh
Special Pigeon Angel
plamenh

Posts : 881
Join date : 2009-09-10
Location : Johannesburg, South Africa

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PostSubject: Re: Sick Pigeons Please help   Sick Pigeons Please help Icon_minitimeTue Oct 27, 2009 11:32 am

Activated charcoal from health store will work well if it is poison.
I know that it can be bit much to ask, but opening crop of dead bird may be good way to determine what is the cause of death (corn, pellets etc.). Some strains of canker are deadly too without visual throat build up.
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Matilda
Special Pigeon Angel
Matilda

Posts : 9198
Join date : 2009-01-11
Location : Pacific Northwest of the United States of America

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PostSubject: Re: Sick Pigeons Please help   Sick Pigeons Please help Icon_minitimeTue Oct 27, 2009 11:38 am

Thank you plamenh for your responce.

Sorry Squid...I emailed Cynthia ages ago and I don't know why she hasn't responded but I'm sure she will.
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AZWhitefeather
Owner/Administrator
AZWhitefeather

Posts : 10863
Join date : 2009-01-11
Location : Arizona Southwestern United States

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PostSubject: Re: Sick Pigeons Please help   Sick Pigeons Please help Icon_minitimeTue Oct 27, 2009 1:05 pm

Your input is much appreciated, plamenh. Sick Pigeons Please help 686336

_________________
Cindy

A Pigeon's Prayer
Please watch over us while we fly,
Keeping us safe from the predators that share the sky.

If we become ill or injured in any way,
Please lead us to safety where we are welcome to stay.
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http://www.pigeonangels.com
Cynthia

Cynthia

Posts : 733
Join date : 2009-01-17
Location : England

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PostSubject: Re: Sick Pigeons Please help   Sick Pigeons Please help Icon_minitimeTue Oct 27, 2009 1:47 pm

It is very unlikely to be poison, not just because it is illegal to poison birds without a licence (and subsequently poison raptors which are protected, so there are harsh penalties) but because wood pigeons can be shot as game (which has been described as "an enjoyable sport") and as pests on a general licence and are a popular food. YUK Shot wood pigeons were selling at a tenner a sack a few years ago, poisoned wood pigeons would be worthless and a liability.



It is much more likely to be canker or one of the common killers that the wildlife rescue places have identified (ie candida, PMV and salmonella).

Charis, I answered this morning but my post has disappeared, I probably hit the wrong button, but by that time Squid had already seen my response on PT.

BTW, don't let DEFRA's attitude worry you, what they are doing is following the instructions they have been given re avian flu, that tells people to only notify the deaths among garden birds if there are 10 or more...I had hoped that they would be able to give you informatoion on the dead birds that they have already received in their surveillance activities.

And yes, Calcivet is fine for pigeons


Lethal control of pigeons


Last edited by Cynthia on Tue Oct 27, 2009 2:10 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Matilda
Special Pigeon Angel
Matilda

Posts : 9198
Join date : 2009-01-11
Location : Pacific Northwest of the United States of America

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PostSubject: Re: Sick Pigeons Please help   Sick Pigeons Please help Icon_minitimeTue Oct 27, 2009 1:59 pm

Well thank you, Cynthia for responding. I feel quite foolish now that the topic had beed responded to. Embarassed
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Cynthia

Cynthia

Posts : 733
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Location : England

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PostSubject: Re: Sick Pigeons Please help   Sick Pigeons Please help Icon_minitimeTue Oct 27, 2009 2:09 pm

Quote :
I feel quite foolish now that the topic had beed responded to.

I feel foolish when I spend time writing a post, press the wrong button and lose it but don't even notice its gone... I just DON'T get it But I fear that is going to happen to me more and more often.
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Cynthia

Cynthia

Posts : 733
Join date : 2009-01-17
Location : England

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PostSubject: Re: Sick Pigeons Please help   Sick Pigeons Please help Icon_minitimeWed Oct 28, 2009 6:52 am

I have pondered on the poison question and sadly concluded that Plamen could be right, that there is a possibility that the pigeons might be direct or accidental victims of poisoning.

There is an element in our society that would not be influenced by logic, law, penalties or compassion...they are the kind of people that stone emergency service vehicles and personnel when they are on call, so would be very likely to poison woodies on the basis that they are pigeons, whether or not they had cause to object to them. Their choice of poison is most likely to be a rodenticide, as these are so easily available. Pigeons also forage around farms where rodenticides are used.

The most common form of rodenticides are anticoagulants. Animals poisoned this way don't show symptoms until many hours after ingestion, it takes a couple of days to kill them. I have found rats dying in my garden with no external signs of illness, but the source of their affliction is visible to me in a neighbour's garden. 🇳🇴

The primary antidote for this type of poisoning is Vitamin K.
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Matilda
Special Pigeon Angel
Matilda

Posts : 9198
Join date : 2009-01-11
Location : Pacific Northwest of the United States of America

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PostSubject: Re: Sick Pigeons Please help   Sick Pigeons Please help Icon_minitimeWed Oct 28, 2009 8:28 am

That's very frightening, Cynthia.
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plamenh
Special Pigeon Angel
plamenh

Posts : 881
Join date : 2009-09-10
Location : Johannesburg, South Africa

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PostSubject: Re: Sick Pigeons Please help   Sick Pigeons Please help Icon_minitimeWed Oct 28, 2009 11:46 am

Anticoagulant rodenticides are poisons used to kill rats. Rodenticide means rodent killer. An anticoagulant is a blood thinner.

Symptoms
  • Blood in the poop
    Bruising and bleeding under the skin
    Confusion, lethargy, or altered mental status from bleeding in the brain
    Low blood pressure
    Nosebleed
    Shock
    Vomiting blood


Actions to be taken:
  • Emptying crop - milking crop
    Activated charcoal - with water in the crop or in tablet form
    Vitamin K – Vitamin K is absolutely necessary after rodent bait ingestion. Vitamin K will restore the bloods ability to clot. Many times an injection is given first then followed up with capsules to give at home, this is usually needed for several weeks.
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Matilda
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Matilda

Posts : 9198
Join date : 2009-01-11
Location : Pacific Northwest of the United States of America

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PostSubject: Re: Sick Pigeons Please help   Sick Pigeons Please help Icon_minitimeWed Oct 28, 2009 12:07 pm

Great post, plamenh. Sick Pigeons Please help 142829
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AZWhitefeather
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AZWhitefeather

Posts : 10863
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Location : Arizona Southwestern United States

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PostSubject: Re: Sick Pigeons Please help   Sick Pigeons Please help Icon_minitimeWed Oct 28, 2009 4:42 pm

First and foremost: I am not condoning the killing of any being, rather find it interesting a product used to kill rodents is also used to save many human lives.

Coumadin (Warafrin) is a popular anticoagulant used by many people. It is also used as rat poison.
This is an interesting piece on how it came to be.
The story of Coumadin

_________________
Cindy

A Pigeon's Prayer
Please watch over us while we fly,
Keeping us safe from the predators that share the sky.

If we become ill or injured in any way,
Please lead us to safety where we are welcome to stay.


Last edited by Fancyfeathers on Wed Oct 28, 2009 6:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Matilda
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Matilda

Posts : 9198
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Location : Pacific Northwest of the United States of America

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PostSubject: Re: Sick Pigeons Please help   Sick Pigeons Please help Icon_minitimeWed Oct 28, 2009 4:47 pm

Fascinating article, Cindy. Thanks for finding it and posting it. Thank You
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