Wet and Gritty Poops

Poly has been getting some horrible poops since he's been feeding his babies.

They are a light beige colour and have tiny hard black bits in, looks like pepper sprinkled in it.

I've been giving him probiotics, ACV, vitamins, but they don't seem to be changing at all.
He does drink an awful lot at the moment.

The babies had very wet poops and the nest was always very wet but their poops do seem to be getting slightly firmer now although the outside of the nest is always very slimey and wet. This might be from Poly when he goes to feed.

I was a bit concerned as I've read in Colin Walkers book a section he has about wet nests and he suggests it could be a symptom of wet canker.
I wasn't sure whether I should treat Poly with Spartrix without knowing for certain, especially as he's still feeding the babies.

Is it normal for the adult's poops to be affected when they're feeding, as Bandy, the mum's are very mushy and sloppy aswell but they are at least quite thick.

Thanks

Janet

When you first posted about their poops, canker did pop into my mind. You don't want to treat them and dad now without standing the risk of the babies getting too much of the medicine. If you suspect they are failing, I would pull the babies, treat them for canker and finish the hand feeding process yourself. I would never sugest you remove the babies from their mom and dad unless it is absolutely necessary.
I'm hoping they will contin'e to do ok and them you can treat them all after the babies are weaned.

Spartrix overdose is 600 mg and even then is not lethal, bird is just showing reverseable symptoms of nausea and disbalance. One tablet is 10 mg. It is safe to use it even on small babies and feeding parents.

Hi, and thanks for the answers.
I've been trying to find info on the symptoms of wet canker as opposed to the canker I've come across before with the yellow growths.
I can't seem to find much to help, so just wondered if you could tell me what the main difference is and the symptoms to look out for in wet canker.

I was also wondering if my other birds should be treated at the same time if they aren't showing any changes in their poops as they all use the same water bowls and feeding dishes.

Appreciate your help.

Janet

Here's a link to an article by Colin Walker


http://www.auspigeonco.com.au/products/veterinary_medicines2.html

Main symptoms are increased water intake as crop lining is inflamed and bird feels thirst. This induces wet and smelly droppings.
Same symptoms can appear because of too much grit consumption, cold weather and PMV infection.
Can you post some pictures of Poly, babies and droppings?

Hi,
Took these pictures today. I took some a couple of days ago but decided not to post them as yesteray the babies poops were looking quite well formed, Today they are very wet again.
So although I was posting to ask about Poly's poops I'm posting the babies aswell to have a look at.

POLY & Poops


I'm posting the babies on the next post as I've just done this once and lost the whole post so wondered if there was a limit in the number of pictures I could put altogether.
Apologies if it seems disjointed.

Janet

Larger Baby's poop today.



Smaller baby's poop today.


These weren't like this yesterday but were very wet in their earlier days.



Thanks for your help

Janet

Janet...do all of their poops look like that?

Yes they do.




I think this is from either dad or mum today, wasn't sure who dropped this one.
Mum's have generally been thick and wet, what I call mushy.

Janet

My guess will be Hexamitiasis -

Hexamitiasis
Hexamitiasis is an intestinal disease of pigeons that is associated with muco-aqueous, or
even bloody, faeces.
Pathogen:
The flagellate, Hexamita columbae occurs in pigeon flocks mainly in the summer and
autumn months. It primarily colonizes the rectum. Especially susceptible are newly
weaned squabs, whose resistance is still low. Infected adult pigeons do not normally
show visible signs of the disease, but can excrete the pathogen in large quantities in their
droppings (chronic carriers). The incubation period is 4-5 days.

Symptoms of the disease:
Acute catarrhal (or even bloody) enteritis with liquid, rice water-like or mucoid,
malodorous diarrhea. Affected pigeons refuse feed and drink more water, resulting in
emaciation and debility. Young birds in particular sometimes succumb so severely that
the entire intestinal tract is involved and the soft or aqueous faeces are mixed with blood.

Recognition of the disease:
Hexamitae are demonstrated via microscopic examination in bodytemperature
smears from the intestinal mucosa of a recently killed,
acutely affected pigeon. With extremely severe infestation, it is also
possible to demonstrate the parasites in a cloacal swab from a live bird.
They can be recognized from their characteristically rapid movements in
a straight line - in contrast to trichomonads, which exhibit slow, circular
movements around their own axis.

Similar conditions:
Salmonellosis, Paramyxovirus infection, Coli infection, Coccidiosis.

Treatment:
Treatment is the same as for canker; however treatment should be extended a couple days
longer. Drugs for water medication are Ronidizole, Emtril, and Metronidazole.
Carnidazole is helpful in treating individual affected birds. If increased drinking water is
required (e.g. in the hatching period or hot weather), do not dilute medicated drinking
water. Instead, provide fresh water after the medicated water is finished. Do not provide
bath water during the treatment period.

I would start them on Spartrix immediately for 5 days

Thanks Plamen for all the info.

Do I give the youngsters one tablet a day aswell?
I noticed the parents were still feeding them yesterday as they don't seem to have ventured from their box yet.

Also should I treat the other five birds in with them at the same time or just wait to see if they show similar symptoms?

Janet

I would treat all of them, youngsters, parents, other birds etc. Put ACV in the water and keep changing it on regular basis.

Hi,

I've just spent a couple of hours in with them today and watched who pooped what...

Hey what better way to spend a Sunday afternoon

Anyway I did give them all a Spartrix each, bar one I couldn't catch, but his poops are the only ones out of them all that look near perfect, so I'm not too worried about him. I'll get him next time around.

Actually the babies poops were a little better again today, they did have some substance but it was still wet around the edge of the box area. Mum and dad's were not good though so I'm glad they're getting some treatment now.
I had a look in their mouths and couldn't see anything obvious but mum's throat was quite wet looking.
I've got Chevi-Col, the canker treatment that goes in drinking water, would that be overloading or shall I just stick to Spartrix all round?

One observation, but it may not be unusal as I've not seen babies reared close up before, when I watched mum feeding it sounded as if she was literally pumping water in.
She fills up with seeds then has a good drink before going up to feed them.
As she fed them today, water was coming out of their mouths and you could hear the 'glunk, glunk' sound of water going in. (that's my best interpretation!).
I couldn't hear this when dad fed, so I wondered if she was giving them more liquid along with the seed, thus causing the wetness.
Just curious as to whether this is normal.

Sorry about all the questions. I'll go away and shut up now, and report back in five days!!

Thanks

Janet

Don’t be sorry for asking any question, you can see all the details and something the smallest thing matters. It is not normal for parents to drink so much water that will overflow when feeding babies. Usually crop milk when babies are just hatched is more liquid and as they grow it gets thicker and finally with semi-digested seeds in it.
Too much water is not normal condition.
Chevi-Col is Dimetridazole. Problem with it is that drug is not safe for babies and you are risking overdose with abnormal water intake your birds have.

OK fine, I'll give them ACV as usual.

I had noticed mum making this watery sound when feeding last week, I should have queried it earlier, then she would have been on meds before now if I'd realised it wasn't normal.

Really appreciate the info and will see how things progress over the next few days.

Janet

How many Pigeons do you have, Janet?

Charis, I have nine including the babies.

Janet

If they are easy for you to handle and were it me, I would treat them all individually.

Unfortunately they don't like being handled but as there are only two that can fly properly I can usually catch them so I'll manage the Spartrix individually.

Just one more question about the dose, do I give the babies a full tablet or half as they're about adult size now?
I gave them a whole one yesterday but forgot they're still being fed and so maybe getting some from the parents.

Janet

I would give the babies a full dose.
I always treat them after the lights are out and it's dark and they won't try to fly away from me.

I know I'm only into day three of the Spartrix so probably won't see a great improvement yet, but I'm concerned as I found a couple of poops that look more like starvation poops yesterday and today. The green on the left in this picture is chopped watercress which I assume was fed by the parent, but must have been regurgitated by baby as there are some seeds in it aswell, the green poop is on the right.

I would guess this poop is from the smaller youngster and not all are like this but I did see him do a projectile pure liquid poop while I was in there today.
They are out of the nest mostly now but chasing dad and mum around for feeds still.

I got some strong probiotic powder from the pigeon supplier today which says it's for the treament of very wet poops. Is it ok to put this in the drinking water while they're having Spartrix, or shall I wait for a couple of days. I'm still giving ACV at the moment.

Janet