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 Poopy pigeon has me baffled (not gaining weight)

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AZJourney
Teresa
plamenh
Matilda
AZWhitefeather
Jaye
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Jaye
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PostSubject: Re: Poopy pigeon has me baffled (not gaining weight)   Poopy pigeon has me baffled (not gaining weight) - Page 3 Icon_minitimeSat Jan 23, 2010 9:28 pm

Thanks. Hmmmm- interesting. How long have you had\been treating your friend ? Capp has been here for 4-plus weeks now. Sorry to hear about the PMV - but l suppose it's a devil we all know.
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Matilda
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Matilda

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PostSubject: Re: Poopy pigeon has me baffled (not gaining weight)   Poopy pigeon has me baffled (not gaining weight) - Page 3 Icon_minitimeSat Jan 23, 2010 9:30 pm

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Jaye
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PostSubject: Re: Poopy pigeon has me baffled (not gaining weight)   Poopy pigeon has me baffled (not gaining weight) - Page 3 Icon_minitimeThu Jan 28, 2010 5:49 pm

OK...well.....after reading of Zoe's passing with great sadness.....I took Capp back for his second Vibramycin injection today and had them run a culture as well.

This is frustrating...I have been feeding him a lot...easily 3x-plus what a feral would eat in a day...and he is apparently still losing about 5g per week......

I am truly hoping a culture will tell us something....because so far:

blood test w/ liver/renal panel: negative

fecal exam: negative

And I cannot say the Vibramycin injections have made a dramatic difference. The culture will come back next Wed.

Am curious...can one give Doxycline and Metronidazole simultaneously ? Anyone know ?



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Matilda
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Matilda

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PostSubject: Re: Poopy pigeon has me baffled (not gaining weight)   Poopy pigeon has me baffled (not gaining weight) - Page 3 Icon_minitimeThu Jan 28, 2010 7:04 pm

I don't know but I can find out for you.
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Matilda
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Matilda

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PostSubject: Re: Poopy pigeon has me baffled (not gaining weight)   Poopy pigeon has me baffled (not gaining weight) - Page 3 Icon_minitimeMon Feb 01, 2010 10:16 am

Anything new, Jaye?
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Jaye
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PostSubject: Re: Poopy pigeon has me baffled (not gaining weight)   Poopy pigeon has me baffled (not gaining weight) - Page 3 Icon_minitimeWed Feb 03, 2010 11:14 am

........ :study:

....... I have NO idea

..... Having a bad day


....the Culture was....negative

So basically...I have a pigeon who is losing an average of 5g/week despite how much food he is eating.....with all tests returning negative....with loose stool containing a lot of clear goopy water.......and no medications have thus far shown any change to the condition whatsoever....


Poopy pigeon has me baffled (not gaining weight) - Page 3 310554
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Matilda
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Matilda

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PostSubject: Re: Poopy pigeon has me baffled (not gaining weight)   Poopy pigeon has me baffled (not gaining weight) - Page 3 Icon_minitimeWed Feb 03, 2010 11:41 am

Poopy pigeon has me baffled (not gaining weight) - Page 3 106767 ...could they be stress related poops?
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plamenh
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plamenh

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PostSubject: Re: Poopy pigeon has me baffled (not gaining weight)   Poopy pigeon has me baffled (not gaining weight) - Page 3 Icon_minitimeWed Feb 03, 2010 11:54 am

Yes, you can use Doxycline and Metronidazole simultaneously as follows:
Doxycline - 15 mg twice a day (no grit and calcium)
Metronidazole - 65 mg twice a day

By the way what do you feed him?
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Joyfulsongtree
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Joyfulsongtree

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PostSubject: Re: Poopy pigeon has me baffled (not gaining weight)   Poopy pigeon has me baffled (not gaining weight) - Page 3 Icon_minitimeWed Feb 03, 2010 12:24 pm

Jaye, a long shot here and I hope you don't mind me chiming in .... I've held back writing anything until all your test results were back because I know there are so many reasons why a bird can "go light". At this point though, I would agree with what Plamen wrote earlier, about witholding the safflower and/or any other high fat seeds or nuts...
I write this because I have one ringneck dove hen who just cannot tolerate the same amount of high fat oily seeds as my other (indoor) doves do in their diets without her poops becoming like you describe. She also happens to be the most nervous of my doves, so that may play a part, too...

But I also say "long shot" because unlike your pijii, she has not at any time been "going light" ...

If I withold the safflower, sunflower, peanuts and other high fat oily seeds/nuts and go instead with the parrot pellets with the probiotics in them, some spelt bread or smashed up spelt pretzels (no salt) and go more with seeds like milo and millet and for extra protein, chopped hard boiled egg or dried egg food, her poops will look entirely normal. She loves greens so I let her have some, but mostly either dried or those with a low moisture content...Now it's pretty much only when she gets upset or nervous, that the urine separates from the urates and feces like that.

Here are a couple of links with nutritional content of some seeds/nuts:

http://purgrain.com/ingredients.htm
http://www.squawkandhowl.com/info.html#seednut


Best wishes,
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EgypSwiftLady
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EgypSwiftLady

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PostSubject: Re: Poopy pigeon has me baffled (not gaining weight)   Poopy pigeon has me baffled (not gaining weight) - Page 3 Icon_minitimeWed Feb 03, 2010 1:37 pm

Just wondering here but like Carol has pointed out could the pij be allergic to a certain seed or seeds?

We have a few different species here that no matter how many test were done we could pin point the problem, until we started thinking about the foods they ate. I know its a pain in the neck but we had to start out with a very plain diet and add one by one the foods back to find the items that were causing the problems.
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http://www.ironwolffarmsanctuary.com
Matilda
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Matilda

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PostSubject: Re: Poopy pigeon has me baffled (not gaining weight)   Poopy pigeon has me baffled (not gaining weight) - Page 3 Icon_minitimeWed Feb 03, 2010 4:25 pm

plamenh wrote:
Yes, you can use Doxycline and Metronidazole simultaneously as follows:
Doxycline - 15 mg twice a day (no grit and calcium)
Metronidazole - 65 mg twice a day

By the way what do you feed him?

Plamen...that's a pretty high dose for metronidazole.

The recommended dose is as follows;

Metronidazole/Flagyl

Dose
20-50 mgs per kilo twice daily or 40-100mgs per kilo Once daily) 14 days.
[ kilo=1000 grams...a Homer sized Pigeon is about 495 grams]
This recommendation was taken from the resource forum at PT. Many veterinarians actually prescribe a dose that is lower.

If over dosed on metronidazole the bird can have siezures. I do know of a Pigeon that died from given a high dose, so I would advise caution with this drug.
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Jaye
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PostSubject: Re: Poopy pigeon has me baffled (not gaining weight)   Poopy pigeon has me baffled (not gaining weight) - Page 3 Icon_minitimeWed Feb 03, 2010 8:58 pm

Thanks for everyone's comments\suggestions. He'll be off safflower and l'll move him to pellets and bread etc. Last shot at med tests will be a specifically-targeted microbacterium fecal exam tom'w plus another regular fecal float (although first one showed nothing). Hopefully something will show in either of those tests or from the complete change of diet
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Matilda
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Matilda

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PostSubject: Re: Poopy pigeon has me baffled (not gaining weight)   Poopy pigeon has me baffled (not gaining weight) - Page 3 Icon_minitimeWed Feb 03, 2010 9:00 pm

Has his poop always been the way it is now?
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plamenh
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plamenh

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PostSubject: Re: Poopy pigeon has me baffled (not gaining weight)   Poopy pigeon has me baffled (not gaining weight) - Page 3 Icon_minitimeThu Feb 04, 2010 12:04 am

I know it is higher than recomended and I would not give this figures if I wasn't sure.
This is what I used on Aramis recently when Flagyl was used not for Canker but for internal bacterial infection in combination with Synulox. 1/3 Flagyl 200 tablet twice a day. I had very same argument with Dr. Russell and he explained me that recomended dosages on medications are often too low to have any effect.

Poopy pigeon has me baffled (not gaining weight) - Page 3 Aramis10

This is the Aramis' prescription for Flagyl
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Jaye
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PostSubject: Re: Poopy pigeon has me baffled (not gaining weight)   Poopy pigeon has me baffled (not gaining weight) - Page 3 Icon_minitimeThu Feb 04, 2010 4:15 pm

Ok - he had the fecal and microbactera tests today - results expected Tuesday. Some good news - he hasn't lost any weight over the past week (first time that has happened in the past 4 weeks !)
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Matilda
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Matilda

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PostSubject: Re: Poopy pigeon has me baffled (not gaining weight)   Poopy pigeon has me baffled (not gaining weight) - Page 3 Icon_minitimeThu Feb 04, 2010 4:42 pm

plamenh wrote:
I know it is higher than recomended and I would not give this figures if I wasn't sure.
This is what I used on Aramis recently when Flagyl was used not for Canker but for internal bacterial infection in combination with Synulox. 1/3 Flagyl 200 tablet twice a day. I had very same argument with Dr. Russell and he explained me that recomended dosages on medications are often too low to have any effect.

Poopy pigeon has me baffled (not gaining weight) - Page 3 Aramis10

This is the Aramis' prescription for Flagyl


Here's the yes but... the dosage should be based on wight of each bird. Givine 65mg to a 180 gram bird could be fatal. That's why there is a range, such as...20-50mg.
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Matilda
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Matilda

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PostSubject: Re: Poopy pigeon has me baffled (not gaining weight)   Poopy pigeon has me baffled (not gaining weight) - Page 3 Icon_minitimeThu Feb 04, 2010 4:44 pm

Jaye wrote:
Ok - he had the fecal and microbactera tests today - results expected Tuesday. Some good news - he hasn't lost any weight over the past week (first time that has happened in the past 4 weeks !)


That is some good news. I hope that there finally is some resovle with this one. I can understand how it could drive you nuts.
You remember my lttile yellow parrot and how thin he is...he's been this way since I rescued him 17 years ago.He has been examined and tested by 3 different vets, none of which could figure out why he is so thin. Poopy pigeon has me baffled (not gaining weight) - Page 3 466834 I had to let go of it because it was making me nuts.
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plamenh
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plamenh

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PostSubject: Re: Poopy pigeon has me baffled (not gaining weight)   Poopy pigeon has me baffled (not gaining weight) - Page 3 Icon_minitimeThu Feb 04, 2010 11:38 pm

180 is pretty low, Aramis was 263 in his lowest point. Sorry
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Matilda
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Matilda

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PostSubject: Re: Poopy pigeon has me baffled (not gaining weight)   Poopy pigeon has me baffled (not gaining weight) - Page 3 Icon_minitimeSun Feb 07, 2010 10:26 am

Curious...was this bird on metacame or advill?
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AZWhitefeather
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AZWhitefeather

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PostSubject: Re: Poopy pigeon has me baffled (not gaining weight)   Poopy pigeon has me baffled (not gaining weight) - Page 3 Icon_minitimeSun Feb 07, 2010 12:40 pm

Jaye wrote:

Ok - he had the fecal and microbactera tests today - results expected Tuesday.

Some good news - he hasn't lost any weight over the past week (first time that has happened in the past 4 weeks !)


YESS!! That is good news.

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Cindy

A Pigeon's Prayer
Please watch over us while we fly,
Keeping us safe from the predators that share the sky.

If we become ill or injured in any way,
Please lead us to safety where we are welcome to stay.
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AZJourney
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PostSubject: Re: Poopy pigeon has me baffled (not gaining weight)   Poopy pigeon has me baffled (not gaining weight) - Page 3 Icon_minitimeSun Feb 07, 2010 2:03 pm

How is he feeling today.... pigeon 1
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Jaye
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PostSubject: Re: Poopy pigeon has me baffled (not gaining weight)   Poopy pigeon has me baffled (not gaining weight) - Page 3 Icon_minitimeSun Feb 21, 2010 12:16 am

Hi folks...sorry for not posting recently. The microbacteria tests as well as a second fecal both came back negative ! All he is showing is the beginings of a yeast infection (I am giving him Medistatin (also known as Nystatin) for that...is this the right stuff ?).

Ssssssoooo...I got myself some Nutri-stat and have now upped his handfeeding to 60 pieces a day....in 3 meals...2 meals with the Nutri-Stat added.

I had to basically forego any more vet visits...each Vibramycin injection was costing me $67 and we had completed 3 of 8 ! The tests cost between $70-140 each. No biggie, I handled it but now I am flat-out of money ....and more importantly....my vet feels we have given him a hecka good battery of tests. I went ahead and switched him over to DoxyTabs, since Doxycycline and Vib are the same thing. Have given one pill a day for 7 days straight, per bottle instructions, and have now stopped.

Should I restart again after a break ?

I am trying to find a friend with a Gram Scale so I can check his weight.....he was in at 260g last vet visit. If worse comes to worst...I will just stick him in a small cardboard box and weigh him at the UPS store (shhhh - don't tell anyone who's inside !).

I dunno...cannot tell if he is gaining...he may be...he may not be. Still acting pretty normal but I am very unsure of his ability to do more than take short flights in the flat. Of all of the charges that have come thru here lately...he is certainly the least evasive and easy to catch of any of 'em. So, I am still concerned but forging onward.

If someone can give me some feedback on the yeast infection and the Doxycycline ...that'd help.

Cheers.
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Matilda
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Matilda

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PostSubject: Re: Poopy pigeon has me baffled (not gaining weight)   Poopy pigeon has me baffled (not gaining weight) - Page 3 Icon_minitimeSun Feb 21, 2010 12:27 am

Honestly...I wouldn't give him anything but the medistatin.
Oddly, I did read something today, on a Dutch forum, about a couple of male Pigeons that were having similar symptoms as this guy. Apparently, the symptoms had only begun a few days ago. The veterinaran that was moderating the forum thought it could be because the birds are nervous or stress related.
I did think of this guy when I read that as I have wondered the same over the course of his saga.
Certainly, you have gone the extra mile and a dozen more to find out what's going on with him. I admire your committment and determination on his behalf.

A lot of times, one can pick up a very nice gram scale at, Tuesday Mornings, for under $20. There are good to have and saves one sneaking into the UPS store on a frequent basis.
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AZWhitefeather
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PostSubject: Re: Poopy pigeon has me baffled (not gaining weight)   Poopy pigeon has me baffled (not gaining weight) - Page 3 Icon_minitimeSun Feb 21, 2010 7:16 am

Appreciate the update, Jaye. :Yes:

This little one truly is a puzzler, isn't she?
You have done, and are doing, an incredible job of trying to find a diagnosis for what's going on, as well as giving her the utmost care. Pigeon angel

Positive thoughts and best wishes continue. Wink
As time permits, please keep us posted.

_________________
Cindy

A Pigeon's Prayer
Please watch over us while we fly,
Keeping us safe from the predators that share the sky.

If we become ill or injured in any way,
Please lead us to safety where we are welcome to stay.
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Tech
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PostSubject: Re: Poopy pigeon has me baffled (not gaining weight)   Poopy pigeon has me baffled (not gaining weight) - Page 3 Icon_minitimeTue Apr 06, 2010 1:31 pm

Charis,

All of these poop images - Bank poops look like these.
But yet lab result is negative.

What should I do?

Tech/Jo
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