Prayers and wishes of wellness needed for Zoe!

As you all know I have a little feral from Jim's flock in Tucson. ((same flock as Crash)) Her name is Zoe. When Jim first found her she had canker..which he treated.
When I recieved her... she still seemed not to be feeling so good so I stated her on Spartrix for 5 days and a round of Baytril. After this she seemed to be feeling better.
I moved her into my bird room after her quarentine, to have the company of the rest! She seemed to be doing really well until about 10 days ago her poops were nothing but loose in a splot of water. At which time I thought could be worms so I wormed her. Her poops seemed to firm a bit after this but always still surrounded in a puddle of water. Very similar to another thread here on PnA. Zoe was showing no other signs of being ill. UNTIL>>> 3 days ago.

The head tick started and she has stopped eating all together! I have hand fed her now for 3 days and will continue to do so... Kaytee~vitamens~tad of yogurt~and honey... mixed in with baby rice cereal. I syringe her water as well.

She will see Dr. Latas tomorrow @ 1pm... and Dr. Latas' assistant called the lab to see if they can actually run a test for PMV specifically... and evidentlly they can.
(((We were going to see Dr. Burke.. but with the bad weather here I don't want to drive to Phoenix. )))

Can someone tell me if that is a blood test or not?
She will have a fecal... as well as a full check up!

sigh.... I have so many questions now....

1} Can a bird that has poops of PMV have the virus and not show symptoms of PMV??? ( if so.. would they be contagious)


2} and...Can the virus lay dormant.... until the bird is stressed and then the sympoms appear? ((I moved her into the bird room and maybe this is what triggered it??? I'm trying to figuer out "how" she got it!

I have a video... for reference I will try to get it up and a poop pic... I will post... But any input would be helpful.

She has been isolated 1 week prior to symptoms of PMV downstairs... away from the other birds. I'm just worried sick... now about Crash and Daylen who come from the same flock... I'm probably forgetting info..in this post... but for now it is all I can muster!

Incubation of PMV virus is 2 week period.

She could be alleready having the virus when you received her and treated for canker. In this case two weeks later, she will show symptoms and disease will run it's course for 4 weeks. I would put her back to quarantine and monitor other birds in the room.

Second scenario is that Zoe had PMV in the past. (this is better option for the rest of your birds) and when mooving in the bird room she was under the stress and started showing symptoms of PMV.

PMV can be detected by blood test not fecal and not many laboratories have equipment to do it.

Please start all your birds on calcium and vitamins and probiotics.

I'm sending my prayers and positive thoughts for quick recovery.

The following is from an article on PMV by Gordon Chalmers...


Spread of the Disease. As a disease, PMV moves relatively slowly through a loft of pigeons. The main source of the virus in a loft is the droppings of infected birds, and the main method of spread is mechanical, that is, through racing baskets, on fanciers' shoes, etc.. From the time the virus is first introduced to a loft until the first signs of disease appear is often 5-6 days, but can be as long as several weeks, facts that can be used to advantage when suitable vaccines are available, and their use permitted by federal/state authorities.

Signs. Early signs of the disease (2-3 days) can include watery eyes and discharge from the nostrils. However, these are uncommon signs. Even so, in this early period of time, virus is being discharged from these sites in the body.

By day 4 after exposure, the virus begins to multiply in the digestive tract, i.e., the intestines. At this time, signs of very fluid diarrhea occur. From the intestines, the virus gains access to the blood stream, which spreads the infection to the brain and other tissues. Because the kidneys are also infected, a great deal of the fluid passed by infected birds actually comes from the kidneys. In an outbreak, the loft can be awash in fluids.

The nervous signs include trembling of the head, a twisted neck, general paralysis, problems with balance (drunken appearance), problems picking up grain, etc. In some cases, there can be nervous signs without diarrhea, and diarrhea without nervous signs.


I'm glad you are going to have her tested. That's the only way to know for sure.

plamenh wrote:

Incubation of PMV virus is 2 week period.

She could be alleready having the virus when you received her and treated for canker. In this case two weeks later, she will show symptoms and disease will run it's course for 4 weeks. I would put her back to quarantine and monitor other birds in the room.

Second scenario is that Zoe had PMV in the past. (this is better option for the rest of your birds) and when mooving in the bird room she was under the stress and started showing symptoms of PMV.

PMV can be detected by blood test not fecal and not many laboratories have equipment to do it.

Please start all your birds on calcium and vitamins and probiotics.

I'm sending my prayers and positive thoughts for quick recovery.

Thanks Plamen! I give my birds vitamins and once a week Probios in their water... I went and added liquid calcium just now to everybody's water dishes. I had already done it for Zoe a few days ago.

I recieved her late November... here is the link that shows her poops then.... https://pij-n-angels.forumotion.net/pigeon-and-dove-pets-f1/i-said-i-wasn-t-gonna-t959.htm

I am wondering if she has had it since she has arrived... and then like you said.... when I moved her into the bird room ... I stressed her out, enough to make the symptoms appear.

I am lucky.. because the our vet did check before they called me back to be sure they could check her for PMV specifically.... So they can do it... and I'm anxious to hear the results... hope they won't take long.

For now.. I'm with her pretty much every second of my waking hours... I can't bear to leave her side.

I feel utter dumb... that I have jeporidized my bird room... and will indeed have a watchfull eye on them... Im just worring my self sick at this point!

Jenn...I've been doing a little reading tonight after Teresa told us that Velvet had Aspergillosis and parasites. What I have been reading is fascinating. Both can cause NS in birds, as can other things too...but so many things can that it's just mind boggling.

Let us know how the vet visit goes. FYI...worms don't always show up in a fecal float.

It IS Mind boggling! to say the least.

She has the classic symptoms of PMV... head twisting... the tick... the poops. Poor sweet baby.. I use a rolled up towel to make her bed..and prop her up in it...

1 o'clock can't come fast enough. MY ONLY BIG issue with this office is limited hours!

I'll let you know. I was just looking at the poo's that Jaye posted and they are so very similiar to what Zoe's has had.... Is why I asked so many questions on that thread.... I just hope this is ISOLATED in MY house....to only her... and even then I wish she didn't have it!

Jenn...it may well be PMV but what I am trying to say is that the classic symptoms of PMV are classic of other things as well.

I am so sorry to hear about Zoe, Jenn.
She is such a sweet little one.

As Charis has stated, PMV symptoms can be very similar to other illnesses. The blood test should tell the tale though.
Please do let us know how things turn out.

Sending special get well wishes your way.

Jenn, relax and keep in mind that PMV is not fatal disease and pigeons do recover. Yes it looks frightening and one thinks that bird is in pain with all this trashing and other symptoms but it is the same with epilepsy in humans. People live with this disorder all their life and have good and long lifetime. So do pigeons with PMV. Just make sure that Zoe is eating and drinking.

Jenn.........Poor little Zoe..........sending you healing thoughts and prayers. Hope all goes well at the Vet's.

Louse

Jackie\'s Mom wrote:

Jenn.........Poor little Zoe..........sending you healing thoughts and prayers. Hope all goes well at the Vet's.

Louse

Me too, Jenn !!!

Best wishes and Prayers,
Carol

Oh boy, I just read this thread, Jenn and I can truly relate to your feelings - as you probably know from my thread. I press all my thumbs and anything else that you will har something good from the vets. But in case if - the world is not going to break down - I also thought this originally but look now - although my birds are still sick they also do show so much joy and fun.

Be brave and keep your spirits up!

In times like this I am so glad to be wrong! :Yes:

Zoe was diagnosed with Encephalitis and is running a high fever. They gave her sub Q fliuds. And injectiable antibiotic for 7 days and We have to give her Childrens Ibuprophen for her fever 2 x's a day. She wants me to feed only the Kaytee for 14 days... as it is more eaisly digested than peas... so I will continue doing that.

As of right now.... She is upright- no twitching-no head twisting- and is blinking her sweet precious eyes at me.and fully awake... just weak. I feel utter relief having taken her! SO worth the peace of mind! We have a follow up on Sunday at noon to recheck.. her fecals. They had a high bacterial rate in them and Dr. Latas sent it away to the lab... and the results should be back on Wednesday!

Before we left the office we had a very interesting conversation with Dr. Latas about PMV.

In the State of Arizona... any lab work that is sent to any lab for PMV testing here, is required by law to be reported if found to be positive. She told us that here in Tucson, that the actual lab will report it to the state, and in return if the test is positive, ALL BIRDS in the building where the bird was treated as well as others in the home are required by law to be PTS! EEEEKKKKKKKKK!!! So she said we aren't even going to talk about it! Since the treatment for such is supportive care anyways and that most Dr's here will not run the test in fear of that!

At any rate... I am content knowing that she was so up front with us about that... and has compassion in her heart to let it be known.

Thank you all so much for your kind words..... your help... and all of your knowledge!
It is most appreciated!!!

I'm really glad you took her to be evaluated...doing so was a critical decision because had you offered only supportive care, I doubt she would have survived.

Probably PMV is reportable everywhere in the states because of the Newcastle outbreak a few years back. It likely is in other countries too. Sure doesn't make deciding the what to do easy.

Matilda wrote:

I'm really glad you took her to be evaluated...doing so was a critical decision because had you offered only supportive care, I doubt she would have survived.

Probably PMV is reportable everywhere in the states because of the Newcastle outbreak a few years back. It likely is in other countries too. Sure doesn't make deciding the what to do easy.

Me too.. :Yes:

Thank you for all your information Charis.... and all of your help!

Seems logical that if ever NS are present, they least to have done is a fecal float becasue that in itself can reveal a lot. The trick is establishing a relationship with a veterinarian that will just run a fecal float.

What a rollercoaster ride, Jenn! I'm glad you finally have the diagnosis so Zoe can be adequately treated. And I'm also glad to know you've got such a good, kind vet!

Best wishes for your little patient's recovery!

Appreciate the update, Jenn.
I wasn't aware that positive PMV test results had to be reported. I appreciate you mentioning that.

Special positive thoughts and get well wishes are being sent your and Zoe's way.
Bless you both.

Please do keep us posted.

Thank you for the update Jenn.
Still sending up prayers for you and for Zoe's healing and hoping that the cause of the Encephalitis will be found at the lab.
Best wishes,
Carol

Prayers for Zoe Jenn and yeah finding a good vet who can diagnose the illness is so critical...you are so fortunate in finding a good one. Many a times these poor birds pass away due to lack of medical treatment and proper diagnosis. We can just give supportive care but timely treatment is a must

Jenn My heart goes out to you!

Since I missed this thread I'm just catching up. I can just image your fright at wondering if you put the other birds at risk. :eek:

I hope Zoe is doing much today and please keep us posted.

priya wrote:

Prayers for Zoe Jenn and yeah finding a good vet who can diagnose the illness is so critical...you are so fortunate in finding a good one. Many a times these poor birds pass away due to lack of medical treatment and proper diagnosis. We can just give supportive care but timely treatment is a must

So very true Priya. :Yes:

Jenn, I hope Zoe's better today, too!

Are you keeping her isolated and in dimish light?
(Encephelitis can cause photo sensitivity).

Did you happen to ask - or did the vet say (depending upon the yet-to-be- determined cause), if the Encephelitis could still be contagious ?





Best wishes and prayers,
Carol

Jenn.........I'm so glad that the Vet visit went well. I wasn't aware of the reporting requirements and the PTS orders either. Although, Zoe has a serious illiness, I can imagine your relief out of concern for all your other birds.

Now that Zoe has been diagnosed and is receiving the proper treatment along with your special care I have no doubt that she will be back to her old self before you know it.

I will continue sending healing thoughts and prayers your way for Zoe's speedy recovery.

Louise