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 Help! My little pigeon is seriously ill!

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Teresa
Jackie\'s Mom
NiteOwl
Matilda
AZWhitefeather
Irene
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Irene
Special Pigeon Angel


Posts : 132
Join date : 2010-05-01
Age : 46
Location : Venice, Italy

Help! My little pigeon is seriously ill! - Page 6 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Help! My little pigeon is seriously ill!   Help! My little pigeon is seriously ill! - Page 6 Icon_minitimeSat Nov 06, 2010 5:04 pm

Charis, I have a medicine for Coccidia in my house (I had treated my previous fantail dove Nefeli which unfortunately died...), shall I give it also to Comis? Shall I put it in her water? She can still drink on her own (she drinks 2 or 3 times a day). The medicine I have is 'Sulfac (Hinossalina 2%, Sulfa Dimetossina 1%, Di Averidina 1%) Liquid Formevet', will it do? The problem is that the medicine is not new and fresh because I had used it one year ago for my other dove and it is half-empty, but the expiry date is 2013 so maybe it is still active... Should I use this one or is it better to get a new one? Shall I treat Comis for the yeast infection and for Coccidia at the same time?

Thank you for the link that you sent me but it seems that this website is for people who are interested in pigeon racing and not for ordinary pigeon lovers like me... Unfortunately here in Italy there are very few people who love pigeons and birds in general... Most people hate them and consider them as 'rats with wings' or they are just indifferent... Their wrong prejudices 'blind' them so that they cannot see the beauty and worth of God's creatures... Of course there are also some kind and caring people and in fact I have got to know some of them through the internet, but they live in different cities and it's difficult to meet them... I have also created an online petition for saving the pigeons of Venice and changing the laws that are against them ( www.thepetitionsite.com/2/save-the-pigeons ) and when I collect 1000 signatures (so far I have collected 855) I'll ask at the municipal office for a permission to collect signatures also from people in the streets. In this way I may also meet some other pigeon lovers and form a little group, who knows...Smile
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Matilda
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Matilda

Posts : 9198
Join date : 2009-01-11
Location : Pacific Northwest of the United States of America

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PostSubject: Re: Help! My little pigeon is seriously ill!   Help! My little pigeon is seriously ill! - Page 6 Icon_minitimeSat Nov 06, 2010 5:14 pm

Yes...give it to her now. Continue to treat with the nystatin.

The reason I gave you that link is becfause I thought he may be able to help you find pigeon medications near you. I do understand that other than pigeon medications, you won't have much in common.
I think your pigeon petition is a great idea. Have I signed that one? We all can here, if it would help and get you closer to your goal.
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Matilda
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Matilda

Posts : 9198
Join date : 2009-01-11
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PostSubject: Re: Help! My little pigeon is seriously ill!   Help! My little pigeon is seriously ill! - Page 6 Icon_minitimeSat Nov 06, 2010 5:19 pm

Irene...also...feed her more. Have you weighed her these past few days?
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Irene
Special Pigeon Angel


Posts : 132
Join date : 2010-05-01
Age : 46
Location : Venice, Italy

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PostSubject: Re: Help! My little pigeon is seriously ill!   Help! My little pigeon is seriously ill! - Page 6 Icon_minitimeSat Nov 06, 2010 6:42 pm

Dear Charis, you are right, those people who breed pigeons for racing will surely know a lot about medicines and pigeons supplies, so it is really useful to know about them! But unfortunately sometimes racing pigeon breeders treat their birds as 'products' and they don't really love them... Once I read in one of their websites that if a pigeon gets ill with an infectious disease they kill it, together with all the other pigeons that have been in touch with it, in order to 'protect' the healthy ones...! It is so cruel... Instead of taking care of the ill and trying to heal them, they just want to get rid of them... Of course not all people who have racing pigeons are like that (I'm sure that some of them truly love their birds), but since I read those horrible things, I'm not sure anymore about who is a real pigeon lover and who isn't really... But as for you and the other wonderful people at Pigeon Angels I have no doubts at all! :-) You are all very genuine and I'm very happy that I have got to known you!! If you also sign my petition (if you have not already done it) you will help the poor pigeons of Venice a lot! Let's hope I manage to collect many signatures from all around the world to make the petition more effective...

As for Comis, I'll start treating her for Coccidia immediately, as you said! I'll also feed her more! When I weighed her some days ago she had put on a little weight...! I'll weigh her again in the morning (now it's night). Today I asked in a shop if they had hot bottles and they told me about a shop for sanitary products that sells all sorts of heating devices, even heating blankets!! There I could surely find something good for Comis! Unfortunately tomorrow is Sunday and the shops will be closed but I'll go to that shop on Monday! Meanwhile I have placed next to Comis a hot bottle that I created myself (I took an empty water bottle, I filled it with hot water, I wrapped it in a thick soft cloth and I put Comis on it. She likes it a lot! I only hope it doesn't cool down too soon! If I find a small heating blanket on Monday, it will be the perfect gift for Comis...! Smile
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Matilda
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Matilda

Posts : 9198
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PostSubject: Re: Help! My little pigeon is seriously ill!   Help! My little pigeon is seriously ill! - Page 6 Icon_minitimeSat Nov 06, 2010 7:07 pm

Irene wrote:
Dear Charis, you are right, those people who breed pigeons for racing will surely know a lot about medicines and pigeons supplies, so it is really useful to know about them! But unfortunately sometimes racing pigeon breeders treat their birds as 'products' and they don't really love them... Once I read in one of their websites that if a pigeon gets ill with an infectious disease they kill it, together with all the other pigeons that have been in touch with it, in order to 'protect' the healthy ones...! It is so cruel... Instead of taking care of the ill and trying to heal them, they just want to get rid of them... Of course not all people who have racing pigeons are like that (I'm sure that some of them truly love their birds), but since I read those horrible things, I'm not sure anymore about who is a real pigeon lover and who isn't really... But as for you and the other wonderful people at Pigeon Angels I have no doubts at all! :-) You are all very genuine and I'm very happy that I have got to known you!! If you also sign my petition (if you have not already done it) you will help the poor pigeons of Venice a lot! Let's hope I manage to collect many signatures from all around the world to make the petition more effective...

Some people that have racing pigeons do kill them but not all do. Some really do love their birds and go to all depths and expense to save them. My friend, Aamir for example, is one of those kind and caring pigeon keepers.
Asking you to contact that site wasn't about whether I approve of that person or his practices The sole purpose was to find resources for you.


As for Comis, I'll start treating her for Coccidia immediately, as you said! I'll also feed her more! When I weighed her some days ago she had put on a little weight...! I'll weigh her again in the morning (now it's night). Today I asked in a shop if they had hot bottles and they told me about a shop for sanitary products that sells all sorts of heating devices, even heating blankets!! There I could surely find something good for Comis! Unfortunately tomorrow is Sunday and the shops will be closed but I'll go to that shop on Monday! Meanwhile I have placed next to Comis a hot bottle that I created myself (I took an empty water bottle, I filled it with hot water, I wrapped it in a thick soft cloth and I put Comis on it. She likes it a lot! I only hope it doesn't cool down too soon! If I find a small heating blanket on Monday, it will be the perfect gift for Comis...! Smile

Fill that bottle as often as you can. Try to keep the water warm rather than let it cool. It's dangerous for her to cool down which is why I try to dis-sway from using things that you need to remember to change or heat up. It's very important the heat remain consistent. I hope you are able to find something appropriate for her in that shop you mentioned.
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Irene
Special Pigeon Angel


Posts : 132
Join date : 2010-05-01
Age : 46
Location : Venice, Italy

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PostSubject: Re: Help! My little pigeon is seriously ill!   Help! My little pigeon is seriously ill! - Page 6 Icon_minitimeSun Nov 07, 2010 4:09 am

Dear Charis,

I'm very glad that your friend Aamir is a kind and caring pigeon keeper and I hope many others are like him too!Smile I'll contact the site you found to see if they know anything about pigeon supplies here in Italy... The great thing is that they are in Mantova which is close to Venice, so if there is any store where they sell medicines for pigeons near there it will be very useful to me too...!Smile Thank you once again for trying to help me, you are a wonderful person!Star quality

I changed Comis' bottle early in the morning, I also have the radiator next to her, but tomorrow I hope to find a small heating blanket at the shop of sanitary products about which I was told yesterday. This morning Comis seems much better! She is more lively and she had some walks... I gave her her Nystatin dose but she shaked her head and some was spilled on the floor... Shall I give her another dose or shall I wait until the evening? I fed her 50 peas for breakfast and I'll feed her again in a few hours.

As for the medicine for Coccidia, when I opened the little bottle today I saw that it had little bubbles in it like foam, so I'm not sure if it is ok... I think I should buy a new one tomorrow...
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Irene
Special Pigeon Angel


Posts : 132
Join date : 2010-05-01
Age : 46
Location : Venice, Italy

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PostSubject: Re: Help! My little pigeon is seriously ill!   Help! My little pigeon is seriously ill! - Page 6 Icon_minitimeSun Nov 07, 2010 5:00 am

I just received a message from my Italian friend Mary who also loves pigeons and she has saved many... She gave me the telephone number of a vet in Milano, who (as she said) is the best in Italy, so he could also give us his advice on the medicines for Comis!Smile I'll call him tomorrow to see what is his opinion...
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AZWhitefeather
Owner/Administrator
AZWhitefeather

Posts : 10863
Join date : 2009-01-11
Location : Arizona Southwestern United States

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PostSubject: Re: Help! My little pigeon is seriously ill!   Help! My little pigeon is seriously ill! - Page 6 Icon_minitimeSun Nov 07, 2010 7:45 am

Positive thoughts and special get well wishes continue, Irene. Universal hug

_________________
Cindy

A Pigeon's Prayer
Please watch over us while we fly,
Keeping us safe from the predators that share the sky.

If we become ill or injured in any way,
Please lead us to safety where we are welcome to stay.
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Matilda
Special Pigeon Angel
Matilda

Posts : 9198
Join date : 2009-01-11
Location : Pacific Northwest of the United States of America

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PostSubject: Re: Help! My little pigeon is seriously ill!   Help! My little pigeon is seriously ill! - Page 6 Icon_minitimeSun Nov 07, 2010 9:40 am

Irene....
1. what is the coccidia medicine?
2 .Were you supposed to refrigerate it?.
3. You said the expiration date is 2013, does it say anything about good for so many days after opening?
4.How does it smell?
Personally, if it smells ok and if it doesn't say discard so many days after opening, I would be inclined to go ahead and use it because I feel you are running out of time with her.

Yes you can wait until tonight to give her more nystatin.

That's really good you fed her so many peas. Please continue to do so every time her crop becomes empty except during the night.
Many people don't know where the crop is located and how to feel for food in the crop.

Let me find a diagram to show you, just in case you don't know.
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Matilda
Special Pigeon Angel
Matilda

Posts : 9198
Join date : 2009-01-11
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PostSubject: Re: Help! My little pigeon is seriously ill!   Help! My little pigeon is seriously ill! - Page 6 Icon_minitimeSun Nov 07, 2010 9:42 am

Open this link and you will be able to see where the crop is located.

http://www.infovisual.info/02/055_en.html

Understanding the digestive system.

http://www.backyardnature.net/birdguts.htm
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NiteOwl
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NiteOwl

Posts : 2194
Join date : 2009-01-19
Location : Southern New England

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PostSubject: Re: Help! My little pigeon is seriously ill!   Help! My little pigeon is seriously ill! - Page 6 Icon_minitimeSun Nov 07, 2010 1:14 pm

Charis those are good links. I'll keep them to share if needed. Thanks.
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pigeonwriter
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pigeonwriter

Posts : 1374
Join date : 2009-07-25
Location : Munich/Germany

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PostSubject: Re: Help! My little pigeon is seriously ill!   Help! My little pigeon is seriously ill! - Page 6 Icon_minitimeSun Nov 07, 2010 2:01 pm

Irene - I hope you'll find the pigeon supplies.
I have an additional idea regarding feeding Comis - I don't know why no-one has mentioned to tubefeeding him for some time so that he can add some more weight more quickly unless you are not familiar with tubefeeding. But I think while you are handfeeding anyway this should not be such a problem for you with the right "materials". If you need help with this there are a lot of good instructions how to do it. I need to go and look for it - I think there is a thread in one of the instructions threads here in the forum.

While my pigeons were sick with PMV I often had the problem that they were losing weight quickly when they were vomitting. So each time this happened I switched to tube feeding because this is more calories than seed and easier digestion. I used simply human baby cereal with apple sauce but without additional sugar and milk free. I made a consistency as firm as possible so that it would go into a syringe still. I used following:

1. a normal syringe for 20 cc
2. a soft plastic tube, cut to a length of approx. 8 cm that fits exactly on the syringe
( these kinds of tubes you normally can buy in DIY stores which also sell all kinds of strings, chains etc.) - clear one is best because you can check better whether it is clean.
I also used to desinfect this with strong vinegar acid and hot water after each meal.

Here is a photo:

Help! My little pigeon is seriously ill! - Page 6 1223x010

When I cut the tube I sanded the edge that was supposed to go into the pigeon mouth carefully so that it did not have any sharp edges which could cause any injuries although these were soft plastic tubes. But you never know.

Charis - is there anything that prohibits what I suggested? I just try to help...


Sending Circle of Love Circle of Love Circle of Love
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Matilda
Special Pigeon Angel
Matilda

Posts : 9198
Join date : 2009-01-11
Location : Pacific Northwest of the United States of America

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PostSubject: Re: Help! My little pigeon is seriously ill!   Help! My little pigeon is seriously ill! - Page 6 Icon_minitimeSun Nov 07, 2010 2:21 pm

Tub feeding is great if one are comfortable feeding that way and are clear on how it's done. The danger, of course is that if one isn't clear on how to crop feed, does it incorrectly, the bird can aspirate and die.
With as much trouble as Irene is having fionding supplies, I wonder if she would be able to find the materials she would need to crop feed and if she can find formula.
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Teresa
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Teresa

Posts : 5381
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Location : Portugal

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PostSubject: Re: Help! My little pigeon is seriously ill!   Help! My little pigeon is seriously ill! - Page 6 Icon_minitimeSun Nov 07, 2010 3:12 pm

Matilda wrote:
Yes...give it to her now. Continue to treat with the nystatin.

The reason I gave you that link is becfause I thought he may be able to help you find pigeon medications near you. I do understand that other than pigeon medications, you won't have much in common.
I think your pigeon petition is a great idea. Have I signed that one? We all can here, if it would help and get you closer to your goal.

Yes, you have! Here's the link: http://www.pigeonangels.com/pigeon-advocacy-f26/pigeon-angels-your-signatures-are-needed-t1676.htm
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Teresa
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Teresa

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PostSubject: Re: Help! My little pigeon is seriously ill!   Help! My little pigeon is seriously ill! - Page 6 Icon_minitimeSun Nov 07, 2010 3:17 pm

Sending positive healing thoughts for Comis! Circle of Love
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Irene
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Posts : 132
Join date : 2010-05-01
Age : 46
Location : Venice, Italy

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PostSubject: Re: Help! My little pigeon is seriously ill!   Help! My little pigeon is seriously ill! - Page 6 Icon_minitimeSun Nov 07, 2010 7:42 pm

Thank you all for your wishes for poor Comis... I pray they come true! She seems to be in good mood but her legs are still very weak... If she wants to move she flaps her wings to help herself... But today she didn't walk much... She was standing on her blanket all the time, next to her hot water bottle...

But the new baby (the brother or sister of Comis) that came out of its egg a few days ago is close to die...!Very sad A few minutes ago (after its mother fed it) it started coughing continuously (just like Laithi did before she died...). I don't know if it will survive the night... Poor little baby, I don't know if I should give it any medicines... It's so little, about one week old... It only drinks cropmilk from its parents so I don't know if its stomach could tolerate any antibiotics... But now I know for sure that the parents (Meli and Anemoni) are ill and they are trasmitting their illnesses to all their babies... Comis got her illness from them...

Charis, the medicine for Coccidia I have is: 'Sulfac (Hinossalina 2%, Sulfa Dimetossina 1%, Di Averidina 1%) Liquid Formevet'. It doesn't have a bad smell, just many tiny bubbles... I'm worried that it may contain viruses or bacteria... because when I was treating my dove Nefeli (which died), I used to immerse the syringe of Nefeli in the medicine many times (because the vet had adviced me to put a drop straight in her mouth instead of disolving it in her water, because she couldn't drink at all...) so the syringe might have contaminated the medicine with bacteria from the throat of Nefeli... In the morning I'll go to the pharmacy where I had bought this medicine and I'll get a new one, but if they don't have it anymore, I'll be forced to give Comis the medicine of Nefeli...


'Pigeonwriter', as it concerns tubefeeding, it is a very good method of feeding ill birds but I think it should be practised by expert people like you, because I don't even know where is the throat and where is the tube of the lungs and I might kill Comis by mistake... Fortunately when I press the sides of her beak she opens it for me and I push the peas in so that she swallows them by herself. She doesn't resist much...

Charis, thank you for the links about the anatomy of birds! They are very very useful and easy to understand...
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NiteOwl
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PostSubject: Re: Help! My little pigeon is seriously ill!   Help! My little pigeon is seriously ill! - Page 6 Icon_minitimeSun Nov 07, 2010 8:38 pm

Hi Irene. I was talking to Charis, and we both agree that you should give that medicine to Comis, as he is running out of time. It is an antibiotic, so should have killed any bacteria introduced by the syringe. You can try to get fresh medicine tomorrow, but you should start him on that tonight.

And the baby can be given 2 mg. of the Baytril. You should start that tonight. Do that once a day. Let us know how it goes.


Last edited by NiteOwl on Sun Nov 07, 2010 10:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
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AZWhitefeather
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PostSubject: Re: Help! My little pigeon is seriously ill!   Help! My little pigeon is seriously ill! - Page 6 Icon_minitimeSun Nov 07, 2010 9:10 pm

I am so very sorry to hear the new baby is so ill, Irene. Very sad
This is all so unfair.
I will be thinking the most positive thoughts I can muster that both the baby and Comis survive this.

Bless you and the little ones. Pigeon angel Universal hug Circle of Love

_________________
Cindy

A Pigeon's Prayer
Please watch over us while we fly,
Keeping us safe from the predators that share the sky.

If we become ill or injured in any way,
Please lead us to safety where we are welcome to stay.
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Matilda
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Matilda

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PostSubject: Re: Help! My little pigeon is seriously ill!   Help! My little pigeon is seriously ill! - Page 6 Icon_minitimeMon Nov 08, 2010 3:57 pm

Irene...how is everything going? The baby? Comis?
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AZWhitefeather
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PostSubject: Re: Help! My little pigeon is seriously ill!   Help! My little pigeon is seriously ill! - Page 6 Icon_minitimeMon Nov 08, 2010 7:20 pm

I hope things are improving, Irene. Fingers crossed
We're all pulling for the baby and Comis. Circle of Love

_________________
Cindy

A Pigeon's Prayer
Please watch over us while we fly,
Keeping us safe from the predators that share the sky.

If we become ill or injured in any way,
Please lead us to safety where we are welcome to stay.
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http://www.pigeonangels.com
Irene
Special Pigeon Angel


Posts : 132
Join date : 2010-05-01
Age : 46
Location : Venice, Italy

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PostSubject: Re: Help! My little pigeon is seriously ill!   Help! My little pigeon is seriously ill! - Page 6 Icon_minitimeMon Nov 08, 2010 7:23 pm

Hello, here I'm again and I have very good news to tell you! Comis today was surprisingly well! She was eating seeds by herself, she was more lively, she stood straight on her feet and she seemed cheerful! The big pharmacy was open today and I ordered a new Sulfac, I will have it in the morning! I also found the shop of sanitary products and I bought a heating pad for Comis!!

As for the little baby, it also survived miraculously...! Last night it was coughing continuously and it had also lost its voice and its appetite and it didn't respond to the calls of its mum, but in the morning I found it breathing normally again and being very calm... It was still 'mute' and it seemed miserable with half-closed sleepy eyes, but it was still alive! I tried to feed it with a syringe a formula for baby birds that I had bought from a pet shop some months ago and then I gave it 2mg of Baytril (I cut the pill of 50mg into 20 pieces -which was really difficult as the pill was so small- and I gave the baby one of them), as Charis suggested. It was very difficult feeding the baby because although it is so little, it resisted too much and it was almost out of control! But I managed to feed it about 1 third of the syringe... For how many days should I give it Baytril? Should I also give it Metronidazole...? It may have canker in its throat which may be responsible for the loss of its voice, what do you think?

I'm so glad that both Comis and the little baby are still alive...! Perhaps God listened to my prayers and your wishes... Hip Hip Hooray
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AZWhitefeather
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PostSubject: Re: Help! My little pigeon is seriously ill!   Help! My little pigeon is seriously ill! - Page 6 Icon_minitimeMon Nov 08, 2010 7:37 pm


I'm so glad to hear both baby and Comis are holding their own. YESS!!

Help! My little pigeon is seriously ill! - Page 6 Angel_23

_________________
Cindy

A Pigeon's Prayer
Please watch over us while we fly,
Keeping us safe from the predators that share the sky.

If we become ill or injured in any way,
Please lead us to safety where we are welcome to stay.
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NiteOwl
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NiteOwl

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PostSubject: Re: Help! My little pigeon is seriously ill!   Help! My little pigeon is seriously ill! - Page 6 Icon_minitimeMon Nov 08, 2010 7:44 pm

Irene, did you give the old Sulfac to Comis? She really shouldn't be waiting until tomorrow morning. She needs medication now.
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Matilda
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Matilda

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PostSubject: Re: Help! My little pigeon is seriously ill!   Help! My little pigeon is seriously ill! - Page 6 Icon_minitimeMon Nov 08, 2010 9:00 pm

Irene...why are you hand feeding the baby? Aren't mom and dad doing that?
You can treat mom and dad with the baytril, after they feed the baby for the last time for the day, so that they get medicine too. By morning, it will be in their system and not affect the crop milk they make for the baby. I would treat the baby for 4 more days and let's see how the baby is doing.
Can you weigh the baby so we can figure out a dose for the metronidazole?
If mom and and aren't sitting on the baby, the baby too needs to be on a heating pad.

I agree with Jay that Comis needs to be on the medicine now. I realize you are sleeping now, but please...please, do give her medicine in the morning before you go pick up the one you ordered. Give her the individual dose recommended for the bird that passsed away.
I'm delighted she is doing better but I'm not kidding you...can't stress this enough... when I tell you that the clock is ticking for her.
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NiteOwl
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PostSubject: Re: Help! My little pigeon is seriously ill!   Help! My little pigeon is seriously ill! - Page 6 Icon_minitimeTue Nov 09, 2010 6:23 am

Good morning Irene. I hope you have given Comis the Sulfac. Don't mean to nag, but it's very important that you get that into her ASAP. She can not wait until you get the new med. She will just continue to get more ill and weaker. I agree with Charis that the baby should be getting fed by it's parents. It is impossible for you to do the same good job as they would do, and right now he needs all the nutrition he can get. And needs to be kept very warm, or he will not even be able to digest the food given him. Being cold will kill him. Leave him with his parents and let them take care of him. Please update us as to how it is going.
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