Injured pigeon not eating

I couldn't tell much form the pictures except to notice that the eye still does look bad.. I believe you when you say it's better than it was. Do you think she can see out of it?
Did the vet give you anything, such as antibiotic drops to put in the eye?
It could be the thing you pulled from the nose is eye related.

Matilda wrote:

I couldn't tell much form the pictures except to notice that the eye still does look bad.

Do you mean to say that pictures are detailed so you cannot see? I took them with my phone, this is why their quality isn't good. If this is so, I can try to find a better camera. Or do you mean that she looks all right from the photos?

Matilda wrote:

Do you think she can see out of it?
Did the vet give you anything, such as antibiotic drops to put in the eye?

The vet gave a cream that we used for about a week. The vet said she sees with that eye because she responded to light on that side.

Best Wishes.

There wasn't enough detail from the pictures for me to notice anything off...that's what I meant.

Dear Mathilda,

Matilda wrote:

There wasn't enough detail from the pictures for me to notice anything off...that's what I meant.

OK, I will try to find a better camera and take pictures.

There was no discharge today. Perhaps, she is just fine.

Best wishes.

Dear Teresa,

Teresa wrote:

I appreciate the difficulty of counting cage pizzas rather than individual droppings... an idea is to try to estimate volume of food and volume of output... but you won't need to use integration!

Well, she has much more poop today. 7 large pieces since this morning (now it is about 4pm). My volume estimation is that the total volume is a bit more than what I fed her yesterday. But perhaps she got a bit of congestion yesterday.

Dear AZWhitefeather

AZWhitefeather wrote:

Speaking of which, the picture you posted shows very little 'white'. Is there more than the picture shows?
If not, I would wonder if Kader is drinking enough water.

Some of today's poop contains a lot a of white matter. Others don't contain much like the previous picture. So I guess she is getting her water.

I saw Kader's vet on the ferry yesterday. He looked somewhat surprised when I told him that she is getting better by the day. I guess he has seen many instances of somebody finding a sick or injured animal and trying to help them but not being able to do so because of lack of experience. So he was probably expecting the same with Kader. He told me to bring her back next week to see how the wounds are healing.

Appreciate the update, Ghanima.
Yes, it does sound like Kader is taking in water, which is great.

Ghanima wrote:

Dear Teresa,

I saw Kader's vet on the ferry yesterday.
He looked somewhat surprised when I told him that she is getting better by the day.
I guess he has seen many instances of somebody finding a sick or injured animal and trying to help them but not being able to do so because of lack of experience.
So he was probably expecting the same with Kader.

He told me to bring her back next week to see how the wounds are healing.

We all start out with a lack of experience. It's what we do to gain experience that makes the difference.
Seeking those who have been through what you are going through is a great start.

Learning from them is priceless.

You are a true
Bless you both.

Just lost a really long post, as my computer is groaning from lack of available memory so I'll have to keep this short.

First of all, Ghanima, No wonder your vet was surprised!

Yes, volume of poops should be almost as much as volume of food.

Poor Kader, I hadn't realised her left eye was so bad! That one is very swollen, and it's great to know the vet said it was reacting to light. I agree with Charis, that the injury may cause the discharge.
Sorry if you were worried by all the questions. I was trying to rule out ornithosis as a possible cause for the discharge, because it's contagious to humans and can cause mild flu-like symptoms. But I'm almost sure now it isn't that.

You're doing an awesome job!

Dear Theresa,

Thank you for your post.

Teresa wrote:

Just lost a really long post, as my computer is groaning from lack of available memory

I am sorry to hear that. Must be very annoying!

Teresa wrote:

Poor Kader, I hadn't realised her left eye was so bad! That one is very swollen, and it's great to know the vet said it was reacting to light.

Actually her eye was much worse. When I first found her, blood was literally pouring out from this eye (or at least this is how it looked like). I was sure that it was poked out. You can imagine my relive and surprise when the vet said the eye is still there and OK. For several days she didn't even open it. Now it is much better.

Teresa wrote:

I agree with Charis, that the injury may cause the discharge.
Sorry if you were worried by all the questions. I was trying to rule out ornithosis as a possible cause for the discharge, because it's contagious to humans and can cause mild flu-like symptoms. But I'm almost sure now it isn't that.

I understand. I am glad to hear that the discharge is not an indication of anything bad. In any case, I didn't see another discharge yet. She seems healthy and her appetite is very good now.

Next week I will pay another visit to vet for check up. I'll keep you posted.

Many many thanks.

I hope you will have wonderful news on your next visit to the vet next week!

How's it going?

I hope Kader is doing well, Ghanima.
When will you be taking her to the vet for a recheck?

Dear Matilda and AZWhitefeather

Thank you for asking about Kader. She is doing fine but as the blood and swelling in her eye cleared I become the realize that this eye is now not looking quite normal. The pupil is weird looking. I will upload a photo of the eye later today (right now I put her into the balcony so that she can get some fresh air and sunshine.)

I am still concerned about her eating. I don't understand why she doesn't eat enough for her own. Yesterday I made an experiment. I wasn't home all day so in the morning I didn't feed her but instead left her food. When I came late at night I saw that she ate only a little bit. So I fed her a bit at night. I am uploading before and after photos of her food for you to see.

This one is what I left in the morning:


This is what was left at night:


What do you think?

Hi Ghanima,
We will be looking forward to seeing a picture of Kader's eye when you have the time to post it.

With regard to the food.
It actually looks like there is a significant amount taken out of each bowl.
Are those peas and rice?

Dear AZWhitefeather,

AZWhitefeather wrote:

Hi Ghanima,
We will be looking forward to seeing a picture of Kader's eye when you have the time to post it.

I am sorry to say that I could't take the picture of Kader's eye today. I had a visitor today who kept me busy all day. Let me do it tomorrow!

AZWhitefeather wrote:

With regard to the food.
It actually looks like there is a significant amount taken out of each bowl.
Are those peas and rice?

Well, the one on the left is what we call red lentils here in Turkey. They are smaller than the regular green lentils and pigeons here are usually crazy about them! The one on the right is barley.

I am glad to hear that you think that the amount she eats is significant. I tend to compare the volume of the grains she eats herself to the volume of the peas and corns that I feed her (about 100-120 every day) and find that the former is quite lesser than the later. Today I continued the experiment and left Kader to herself to see how much she would eat. She finished about 95% of what was left on her dishes shown in the second picture above (for the whole day). Do you think that it is enough?

AZWhitefeather wrote:

I hope Kader is doing well, Ghanima.
When will you be taking her to the vet for a recheck?

I have a mind to take her to vet on Thursday (the day after). I will ask the vet to check her eye again.

This morning I put Kader to balcony so that she can get some fresh air and sunshine. She kept flapping her wings. Not like trying to fly but more like trying to open up her muscles. Her flapping was so clumsy! Later in the afternoon, I caught her and put her back in the bathroom. Naturally she tried to run and fly but she was again so clumsy. She is so easy to catch! It made me sorry to watch her like that because I felt that she may never be able to fly again. I watched the other pigeons and noticed how strong their flapping is. Right now I can't even imagine Kader flapping so strongly.

Best Wishes.

It's amazing what time can do and it may be that with enough time, she can fly again. I know that I will be hoping for that.
You have done a wonderful job with her and I'm so happy you found us and have included us in her progress.

Hi Ghanima,
It sounds like Kader is self eating quite well.
I mix lentils and barley in with the seeds I buy and my guys like them quite well.

How do her droppings compare in quanity to what she is eating? Are there a sufficient amount of droppings?

Pigeons will stand in one place and flap their wings for exercise. From your description that sounds like what Kader was doing.
Her flying abilities may very well improve as she begins to feel better and regain her strength.

Thanks for the update, Ghanima!

I agree she's eating a reasonable amount by herself, that's certainly improved! Naturally she needs to feed well to get better and stronger,but I think you'll find that now that she started exercising a little her appetite will improve. Antibiotics can also make them lose their appetite a bit.

Don't be discouraged if her first attempts at flying are awkward and not very successful. It must still be quite painful for her to fly because of her injury, so it's brilliant that she's trying at least! Pigeons have a remarkable power of recovery from injury, and she will surprise you one of these days!

I hope her eye continues to improve. If it got pecked at, there may be some permanent scarring, but only the future will tell how much vision she has in it. My daughter had a very serious eye infection once, and after she was cured there was permanent scarring to her pupil, which became almost triangular instead of round. However, she regained her eyesight completely. So fingers crossed for Kader!

Dear Mathilda, AZWhitefeather and Teresa,

Thank you very much for your encouraging words. I am sure she wouldn't have any hope of survival without your help. She might one day even fly with your help! You are pigeon angles indeed!

Here, I include two pictures of her eye. Her pupil is always at the same position, i.e., on the lower front side of the eye. I never saw her move the pupil. There is also an odd looking line extending from the pupil. It is clearly seen in the pictures. My guess is she cannot move her eye because of the injury close to her eye. This injury is not visible now but in earlier days it was noticeable. It was about 1cm away from the eye to the back and slightly lower side.

AZWhitefeather wrote:

How do her droppings compare in quanity to what she is eating? Are there a sufficient amount of droppings?

Well, it is somewhat difficult for me to say because nowadays I let her spend a good time of her day on the balcony. Since there are many other pigeons around I simply can't tell. But let me try and guess from her droppings in the evening and night in the bathroom.

Well that said, something happened which scared me today. When I put her in the balcony during the day, I usually keep an eye on her. But of course I can't constantly look at her because I have many things to do at home (I have a home office). This morning, shortly after I put her in the balcony I saw two large pigeon feathers on the floor. They look awfully like Kader's feathers (the color is just right). I wonder if she survived another attack! She physically looks OK. So even if there was an attack, apparently it was a minor one. But it makes me think if I am doing right in putting her to balcony. I want to put her to balcony because she moves around and exercises there. Gets fresh air and sunshine. She seems happy there. But she might also be attacked again. I am not sure what to do.

Teresa wrote:

Thanks for the update, Ghanima!
I hope her eye continues to improve. If it got pecked at, there may be some permanent scarring, but only the future will tell how much vision she has in it. My daughter had a very serious eye infection once, and after she was cured there was permanent scarring to her pupil, which became almost triangular instead of round. However, she regained her eyesight completely. So fingers crossed for Kader!

Dear Teresa,

I am sorry to hear about your daughter's eye infection,. But it is good that she regained her eyesight.

Best Wishes to All

Hi Ghanima,
Many thanks for the photos.
After taking a look at them, I'm suspicious that Kader may possibly be suffering from canker.
We generally see this in the mouth, however it isn't necessarily contained specifically to the mouth.

This is not to say that she in fact does have canker but that's my first thought after seeing the new pictures. The 'line' may indicate two pieces of canker.
This is just a thought.

Canker, btw is treatable.

This is a picture of Jack, who is a permenant resident of a friend. He had a severe case of canker that it left him with a sissor beak and blindness in his left eye. That was about 6 years ago.
To this day he is going strong and living the life of Riley.

Dear AZWhitefeather

AZWhitefeather wrote:

Hi Ghanima,
Many thanks for the photos.
After taking a look at them, I'm suspicious that Kader may possibly be suffering from canker.
We generally see this in the mouth, however it isn't necessarily contained specifically to the mouth.

This is not to say that she in fact does have canker but that's my first thought after seeing the new pictures. The 'line' may indicate two pieces of canker.
This is just a thought.

I gave Kader a five day treatment with flagyl some time ago. I thought this took care of any possibility of cancer.

I read the link you send about cancer. It says that the symptoms are "noticable decrease in vitality, reluctance to fly, diarrhea and a reddening of the throat." Well, she has decreased vitality and she doesn't fly but these are also understandable from the point of view of her injuries. As for diarrhea, I haven't observed it yet.

Is there a sure way to say if she has cancer or not? Should I start giving her flagyl again, just in case?

Thank you for your help.

I'm not suspicious of canker form looking at her picture. That doesn't mean she doesn't have it though. I know you treated her a while back, with flagyl, but just because you did...doesn't mean the canker can't reoccur.
Canker is cause from a single cell parasite called trichomonas. It is thought that 99% of all pigeons and doves have the parasite in their bodies and most often they are ok with it. Stressful situations, such as her injury, can bring on a canker infection. When their is a canker infection, often other illnesses will overwhelm the pigeon too. Where I am...it tends to be canker, coccidia and worms and e-coli or salmonella.
You can have the vet swab her throat and look at the swab under a microscope.
I noticed the feathers sticking up on her back and she does have a leady look to her which is the only thing about her that I would associate with canker. I was thinking that may be more caused from not having a bath during her convalescence.
Is her injury healed enough so that she can bathe? Pigeons love to take baths.

Here's a link to a thread on canker. read it through and see if you notice any of the symptoms in her.

http://www.pigeonangels.com/t238-canker-trichomoniasis

Dear Mathilda,

Thank you for directing me to the discussion about cancer. I followed most of the links provided in this discussion and learned quite a lot.

From what I read, my conclusion is that Kader doesn't have cancer right now. I understand that some of the symptoms of cancer appear as the infection progresses (like the yellow substance in the mouth) so one doesn't observe all the symptoms at once. But I don't see any of the symptoms in her right now. The only thing is that for the last three days, she stopped eating for herself altogether which might be connected to the symptom of "inability to swallow seeds." However, when I feed her myself, with seeds she is quite able to swallow them. Her crop also seems alright (i.e., not filled with water) So, I think this is not related to cancer.

But in any case, I will try to have the vet check her saliva, tomorrow.

I think her stopping to eat might be stress related. As I said I was putting her to balcony during daytime. Yesterday I suspected she had been attacked again. So today, I put her to balcony but this time I was more careful. Then, I saw a seagulf attacking her! I jumped immediately and I was able to save her without any injuries but that was very close. She was probably very stressful in the balcony all the time. Her stopping to eat just coincides with the time I started putting her to balcony. Now I realize that it was a very foolish idea.

I am hopping that once she feels safe again, she would start eating for herself once more.

Best.

Dear Mathilda,

Matilda wrote:

I noticed the feathers sticking up on her back and she does have a leady look to her which is the only thing about her that I would associate with canker.

Kader lost all the feathers around the wound. We apply a cream on the wound and it makes the feathers around the wound become greasy and stick up. I am posting pictures below to show what mean:

Matilda wrote:

I was thinking that may be more caused from not having a bath during her convalescence.
Is her injury healed enough so that she can bathe? Pigeons love to take baths.

We provide her with bath water but she doesn't take a bath. It is the same type of container and the same type of water that we provide for other wild pigeons in our balcony and I see them bath in it everyday. Although we have the exactly same setting for her in her bathroom, she is not bathing. Maybe her injury is preventing her from doing the necessary movements.

Is it OK if I wash her myself? What is the right way to do this?

Many Thanks.