Juvenile Pigeon in Portsmouth - Ambrose PMV? need advice

Hi
My name is Caroline, I am in Portsmouth, Hampshire. Last week a pigeon crashed in to my garden displaying very odd behaviour. Spinning in circles, star-gazing, pecking at seed but not feeding. When I went outside he tried to take off and crashed into our kitchen window. I caught him with a towel and set him up in our dog crate in the bathroom. I have been taking wonderful advice from 2 pigeon lovers I found online. I am feeding Ambrose (as we named him) twice a day with a herb jar filled with canary feast and a bandage on the top with a hole. I am syringing him some carrot juice as well as water. He has gained 60 g since last Tuesday, his poos are no longer bright green and watery so things are improving by the day.
Since Monday he has lost his tameness, he was coming out of the cage and hopping on to my lap . This is good as I guess it means he will be able to be released eventually ? The problem is, he is now getting angry and aggressive with me when I am lifting him out to feed him and clean his cage. I am losing my confidence as I have never cared for a bird before I have bathed him a few times now and his white powder has started appearing. When I found him he was crawling with lice but a Lady I know who used to care for wildlife said household fly spray working in to his feathers all over would kill them and he is completely lice free now
I am wondering if anybody knows of someone in the Hampshire area who can maybe take over Ambrose's care ? For 3 reasons - I am becoming more nervous as Ambrose gets more cross. 2 I think he is a bit depressed in our bathroom but we have no where else to keep him due to elderly cat and 2 dachshunds. 3 Our rescue cat ( a stray that was eating the fox food we put out)comes to live with us from the car protection next week,and he is meant to be going in the bathroom for the first 2 weeks until our resident cat gets used to him.
I hope it doesn't sound like I am trying to offload Ambrose, I love this little bird and I so want him to have a good home until such time he is fully recovered. I love pigeons and I think it was some crazy magic he landed in our garden as most people I know don't understand just how beautiful these creatures are But I don't feel that I can give him the best place for long term recovery, and I have no experience of telling if his neurological functions will be fully recovered for possible release.
Thanks so much in anticipation
Caroline
PS I put out some pigeon corn, peanuts and sunflower hearts in his cage each day, but so far he only feeds from the bottle.

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Caroline...he's acting as he is, because he's feeling better. That means you truly have done a wonderful job!
It will help if you can give him a mirror for company. Male pigeons, in particular love to look at themselves and it occupies them for hours.
I have a greatly disable pigeon with a mirror at each end of his cage. He loves the pigeon in one mirror and attacks the other with great gusto!
While he may have pmv, other illness can cause similar symptoms and so it would be good to have him evaluated. He may need antibiotics.
I'm going to give you the resource list for contacts in the UK. See if you can find one near you.
Best of luck to you both.

http://www.pigeonangels.com/t256-matilda-s-list-england

Hi Caroline,

Thank you for helping Ambrose, and taking such good care of him!

Your best bet for now is to go along with Cynthia's advice, as I've just seen a thread on her site, 'Pigeon and Dove Rescue' with an appeal for Ambrose, and it looks as though her friend Kim may be able to offer him a home. That would be the ideal solution, as not many PMV survivors can be released back into the wild, and because of that some shelters opt for euthanasia.

I hope you're successful in finding Ambrose a good forever home!

Hi Teresa
Thank you for your message :0) I have just checked out the thread on Facebook. I am bit upset as Ambrose's story makes me appear very bad and selfish
I was only ever going to take Ambrose to a sanctuary to have him assessed to ensure he had PMV , and that was only after advice I received telling me to do so ( from a member of Pigeon Angels) . I never intended to leave him at a sanctuary for good as I already had been told that they would not want him and no way would I let Ambrose be put to sleep , I love him. Once Cynthia told me that no sanctuary would assess I was decided upon not persuing it, even though Charis had suggested it. As for rehoming him, I did a lot of research about whether we could keep him. But we have 2 dachshunds and 2 cats so Ambrose cannot be a happy indoor bird as he could not come out of his cage . We would need to build an aviary from scratch in out tiny garden, and we even looked into this, but a member of Pigeon talk confirmed what I suspected - that a single pigeon in an aviary is not a contented bird, he is a lonely bird. I would be keeping him for me, not for him and his best interests - not fair to little Ambrose.
There is a post that suggests I am taking his aggression too seriously etc, but in my defence I have never cared for a bird in my life before - and I was worried and frightened that Ambrose no longer liked me and that I was making him miserable - but that was never my reason for seeking an alternative home for him. Now Cynthia has reassured me that all squeaker's go through this phase I am much calmer and Ambrose is settling well too.
I have pledged and promised to Cynthia that I will care for Ambrose totally during his 6 weeks isolation, and I will, because I love him.
I am just terribly upset that I come across as uncaring towards Ambrose on the Facebook thread, and come of the comments endorse this.
Perhaps you can post this message on the thread as I am not a member of that facebook group and do not wish to start some horrible argument online. But I thought I was doing right by Ambrose and now I feel miserable and very sad.
Regards
Caroline

Awww Caroline...

I have in fact replied to that thread a moment ago, but PLEASE don't worry and don't think people will think less of you! Cynthia herself has posted at length, explaining the situation better, to make sure others wouldn't misunderstand your situation and your genuine love for Ambrose...
The English language can be tricky sometimes, when words and phrases have different meanings in different parts of the world, and Cynthia was mortified that others would have interpreted her words "hand on" (meaning "to entrust to someone who can offer adequate care") as "passing the buck"... Goodness knows, I've put my foot in it often enough, not realising that I had caused offence (in the US) with a comment that anyone in the UK would have laughed at...

Negative posts, in response to perceived neglect or indifference, will, I'm sure, be put right as the facts are known. Animals in distress raise very emotional issues, and all of us have some really crappy days, when we react out of proportion to something that appears bad. Please forgive and forget, as I'm sure your heart would be broken if you had experienced some of the horrid situations that leave those people's nerves so on edge that they then lash out on the innocent that they mistook for guilty. They're good people, just on edge, and I do believe you will have the proof of this.

About the advice you got, all of it was good advice. My reaction on seeing your post was the same as Charis, namely find a rehabber/sanctuary contact that might help you. I checked out the one in Basingstoke, and found another one in Chichester, which should be closer to you. But knowing how volatile the situation has been, because of the worldwide recession and the numbers of sanctuaries that have closed their doors or changed their no-kill policy, I went straight to Cynthia, as she's the one who has the most information on what's happening in the UK -- and that's when I found that she was already on the case.
Lack of funding or facilities (and occasionally much misinformation regarding birds with neurological problems) unfortunately leads many organisations to euthanise those birds that are deemed unreleasable. But those birds can have a full and happy life with a little care, company of their own kind, and a safe environment -- and if someone can help you find a good forever home for Ambrose in the UK, then Cynthia is your man, so to speak!

I have two PMV survivors in the house, and they're fine now but can't be released. That's because some remnants of the neurological symptoms can remain, and when the birds get stressed they can have a seizure. So you can imagine that if one of those was outside and got confronted by a cat, or a car, and responded with a sudden onset of torticolis, they wouldn't survive the day!!
The prognosis for Ambrose is better, especially when you consider that my Sammy was so ill that she had to be hand fed every day for seven months. However, both she and George now have their own mates and a place where they can live and sunbathe in safety.

Birds with neurological issues need a calm, safe environment, and a lot of attention. The fact that you know that your household wouldn't be right for Ambrose because of the cats and dogs and the lack of space, doesn't mean you don't care enough about him, quite the contrary -- it means that you want what's best FOR HIM, even if that means that he won't be near you. In my books, that's the true measure of love!

I'm only sorry that I didn't see your post sooner... It's been a bad week, somewhere between a nasty bout of flu (receding now, thank goodness) and an electrical surge that crashed my computer spectacularly and fried my daughter's computer and DVD player... But both computers are repaired now, so hopefully I'll be around now if you need me!

I wish I could send you a handful of sunshine -- it's 18ºC here in Portugal and a perfect spring day!
Have a lovely weekend!

Dear Teresa
Thanks for your lovely message. I have already had such a nice email from Cynthia ( who has been supporting me every day of these last 2 weeks). I think in hindsight I was over-sensitive to some of the comments on the facebook thread. After all, these people have no way of knowing me personally and are just airing their views. I am super-thin-skinned at times, and my husband is always saying I take things to heart too much
But Cynthia has put a nice message up on Facebook and I feel much better, she has been so kind to me .
He seems so much more contented since we brought his cage downstairs with us in the lounge. He is eating well, stretching his wings, preening and I gave him a warm bath today which he seemd to like He is enjoying some Frank Sinatra here this evening so he is a bird of great taste indeed
Thanks again for your nice words, along with Cynthia's email they meant a lot and lifted what had started as a miserable day for me
Regards
Caroline x

Dear Caroline...forgive me if I misunderstood you...I gave you a list of rehab centers and veterinarians for you to chose who might be close by. My thought is that the baby should be checked for canker, worms, bacteria and such.
I had thought that either a rehab or vet would be able to do that there.

I certainly don't think that you have done anything less than a fabulous job with the baby.

Hi Charis
No no please do not think it was your post that upset me, and as Teresa says, you gave good advice. I was all set to get Ambrose checked at a sanctuary / vet but it turns out that here in the UK if there is the slightest chance the pigeon has PMV, he will likely be put to sleep anyway, even if he is recovering There are very few shelters here that offer homes for PMV because of the isolation required, but even getting him checked over at this stage would have been taking a chance because of the PMV symptoms.
The post that upset me was on Facebook, in response to Cynthia's appeal for a home for the little fellow.
But again, I think my over sensitivity got the better of me too, and as a first time rescuer I have been fretting almost every day. But it's getting better and I am more confident with Ambrose every day.
Please forgive me if I gave the impression you had upset me .
Thanks again for your advice and support Charis (as I said to Cynthia, I think you experienced pigeon carers do an amazing job, and are incredibly patient with us novices )
Caroline

You're playing Frank Sinatra to Ambrose??!!!
I suppose it takes all sorts!
Most of mine like easy listening, like Adiemus, but my Hercules is addicted to the theme tune of Stargate Atlantis (WE can never get to hear it, cause he coos right over the top!!!) and Srophe is a real Rock chick -- if it has a strong beat she dances away!

By the sounds of it, Your doing great, Just love the poor bugger for who he is , and what he does. U see his angeression is @ your hand right? I thought this and i hated it too, But its not you the pigeon is mad at, Its the presence of your hand, There knowledge is not key to weither or not ur hand is connected to your face. I learned that from a very helpful Pigeon Angel on here. (Matilda THANK YOU!)

And second I may sound like a weirdo right now. But that has got to be the most funniest story i ever frickin heard. I heard one before u know. My Dad had a tumbler he would tumble tumble and tumble......until he hit the ground! fly back up TumbleTumble again Eventually he became pretty ......disfunctional and was not allowed outside anymore . Pigeons are just crazy.....CRAZY

just Love your pigeon dont give em away, U know ur gonna miss em, just get him some bird vitamins and love that beast forever. I let my rescued pigeons go just 2 days ago, I own the mothers baby, while father been gone for monthes. Mother is free now where i caught her originally,


U see a pigeon when they are a baby, get use to the surroundings by observing all around them. When they are ready to fly, They will fly around only what they have observed (inheriting there homing ability) Maybe you can make a pigeon coop and just spend some time with him outside....then keep him in the coop just for month and half, or more. He will return to the coop most likely.

You never cared for a bird, Here is your chance right? maybe you will grow to love the bird and get a tropical bird to have indoor. They are more fragile , but very excellent tame pet. Even the non tame ones can be really cool. I had one that shoke my hand when i said "coo bird" lol Anyway. I just don't want you to let go something that you dont wanna let go of. Your doing really good caring for the bird. U got reid of invest of lice. Man that is awesome *PROPS* well girl u do your thing u know? you got it....never know yo, could of been magic
( really think the pigeon coop would be agood idea, do you know Handymen that could prehaps build you one? they are not hard to built) Cement the floors, no hollow floors, attracts mice.
GOOD LUCK WITH THE GODSEND!

(PS TAP YOUR FINGER ON THE GROUND NEXT TO SEED, and tell him to eat, BE NICE

Dawdlebean wrote:

Hi
My name is Caroline, I am in Portsmouth, Hampshire. Last week a pigeon crashed in to my garden displaying very odd behaviour. Spinning in circles, star-gazing, pecking at seed but not feeding. When I went outside he tried to take off and crashed into our kitchen window. I caught him with a towel and set him up in our dog crate in the bathroom. I have been taking wonderful advice from 2 pigeon lovers I found online. I am feeding Ambrose (as we named him) twice a day with a herb jar filled with canary feast and a bandage on the top with a hole. I am syringing him some carrot juice as well as water. He has gained 60 g since last Tuesday, his poos are no longer bright green and watery so things are improving by the day.
Since Monday he has lost his tameness, he was coming out of the cage and hopping on to my lap . This is good as I guess it means he will be able to be released eventually ? The problem is, he is now getting angry and aggressive with me when I am lifting him out to feed him and clean his cage. I am losing my confidence as I have never cared for a bird before I have bathed him a few times now and his white powder has started appearing. When I found him he was crawling with lice but a Lady I know who used to care for wildlife said household fly spray working in to his feathers all over would kill them and he is completely lice free now
I am wondering if anybody knows of someone in the Hampshire area who can maybe take over Ambrose's care ? For 3 reasons - I am becoming more nervous as Ambrose gets more cross. 2 I think he is a bit depressed in our bathroom but we have no where else to keep him due to elderly cat and 2 dachshunds. 3 Our rescue cat ( a stray that was eating the fox food we put out)comes to live with us from the car protection next week,and he is meant to be going in the bathroom for the first 2 weeks until our resident cat gets used to him.
I hope it doesn't sound like I am trying to offload Ambrose, I love this little bird and I so want him to have a good home until such time he is fully recovered. I love pigeons and I think it was some crazy magic he landed in our garden as most people I know don't understand just how beautiful these creatures are But I don't feel that I can give him the best place for long term recovery, and I have no experience of telling if his neurological functions will be fully recovered for possible release.
Thanks so much in anticipation
Caroline
PS I put out some pigeon corn, peanuts and sunflower hearts in his cage each day, but so far he only feeds from the bottle.

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I know right! she's doing so good with a Pigeon, Im actually really surprized how she is handling this Godsend, Miracle that bird is you know, I really do believe her theory is right, Some crazy magic yo!

What do you think tho, I think she should build a Pigeon Coop. And become a Pigeon Fancier

Matilda wrote:

Dear Caroline...forgive me if I misunderstood you...I gave you a list of rehab centers and veterinarians for you to chose who might be close by. My thought is that the baby should be checked for canker, worms, bacteria and such.
I had thought that either a rehab or vet would be able to do that there.

I certainly don't think that you have done anything less than a fabulous job with the baby.

Hi Caroline,

I hope Ambrose is coming on well and getting stronger by the day! Naturally, as young pigeons go, feeling better also means acting up a bit -- teenagers, eh!

Have a great weekend!