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 Horrible fracture (Beware, GRAPHIC) -- what can I do?

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Jackie\'s Mom
rattyfied
Jenaka
Luna Wolf
Cynthia
Matilda
AZWhitefeather
jamy
pigeonwriter
Effa
plamenh
Teresa
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Teresa
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Teresa

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Location : Portugal

Horrible fracture (Beware, GRAPHIC) -- what can I do? - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Horrible fracture (Beware, GRAPHIC) -- what can I do?   Horrible fracture (Beware, GRAPHIC) -- what can I do? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Oct 12, 2009 8:58 pm

Cynthia wrote:
Hi Teresa,

I am ashamed, I couldn't look at this thread, I had such a horrific image in my mind, I didn't think I could help....I am so relieved that thanks to your involvement he will be all right he will be all right!

Cynthia

Aw, Cynthia, we all have moments when we can't handle more bad news! But I haven't forgotten how you were a tower of strength to me as I struggled to help Merlin.
Pigeon angel
Just to remind you, and to add another story with a happy ending, I posted Merlin's story (without the scary photos!):

https://pij-n-angels.forumotion.net/feral-pigeons-and-doves-f3/there-you-are-t647.htm#6638
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plamenh
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plamenh

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Location : Johannesburg, South Africa

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PostSubject: Re: Horrible fracture (Beware, GRAPHIC) -- what can I do?   Horrible fracture (Beware, GRAPHIC) -- what can I do? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeMon Oct 12, 2009 9:23 pm

I love happy endings!
Now, because you are on Baytril, calcium for bone mending is not appropriate.
You can use single dose Baytril as per Charis’ suggestion in the morning for example and some of the following:
Arnica: This remedy is useful for reducing the pain and swelling that accompany any new injury, and should be taken as soon as possible after a break occurs. It may also be helpful in calming the bird, since breaking a bone is traumatic as well as painful. Dose 1~2 tablets a day. Arnica may be used for several days while pain and soreness are prominent.
Symphytum: This remedy is best known for helping broken bones rejoin and heal. It should be taken after a bone is set to ensure proper joining of the bone. (A common recommendation is to take it daily in the first few days, then once a week while the bone is healing.)
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Cynthia

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PostSubject: Re: Horrible fracture (Beware, GRAPHIC) -- what can I do?   Horrible fracture (Beware, GRAPHIC) -- what can I do? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Oct 13, 2009 2:43 am

Hi Teresa,

Just a reminder (as the dose Charis recommends indicates) that the Baytril dose for pigeons is 10-20 mg per kilo bodyweight once every 24 hours.

The 2.5% solution that I use has 2.5 mg per 0.1 ml, so if you are using that would be roughly 0.3 ml, but it is important to check what solution the vet gives you.

I love it when pigeons crow triumphantly as they are returned to somewhere that they feel safe and at ahome.
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jamy
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PostSubject: Re: Horrible fracture (Beware, GRAPHIC) -- what can I do?   Horrible fracture (Beware, GRAPHIC) -- what can I do? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Oct 13, 2009 4:56 am

plamenh wrote:

Arnica: This remedy is useful for reducing the pain and swelling that accompany any new injury, and should be taken as soon as possible after a break occurs. It may also be helpful in calming the bird, since breaking a bone is traumatic as well as painful. Dose 1~2 tablets a day. Arnica may be used for several days while pain and soreness are prominent.
Symphytum: This remedy is best known for helping broken bones rejoin and heal. It should be taken after a bone is set to ensure proper joining of the bone. (A common recommendation is to take it daily in the first few days, then once a week while the bone is healing.)

I'm glad you posted that info as I'm using Symphytum at present for one of my dogs to encourage a bone fusion after an op. I wasn't sure how long and often to use after the first few days. Very good to find someone who has some experience of this.

This is such a wonderful story, if only there more vets like yours, it's so heartening to know there are those that will treat pigeons with as much care as any other patient.

Looking forward to watching his progress.

Janet
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Teresa
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Teresa

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PostSubject: Re: Horrible fracture (Beware, GRAPHIC) -- what can I do?   Horrible fracture (Beware, GRAPHIC) -- what can I do? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Oct 13, 2009 6:46 pm

plamenh wrote:
I love happy endings!
Now, because you are on Baytril, calcium for bone mending is not appropriate.
You can use single dose Baytril as per Charis’ suggestion in the morning for example and some of the following:
Arnica: This remedy is useful for reducing the pain and swelling that accompany any new injury, and should be taken as soon as possible after a break occurs. It may also be helpful in calming the bird, since breaking a bone is traumatic as well as painful. Dose 1~2 tablets a day. Arnica may be used for several days while pain and soreness are prominent.
Symphytum: This remedy is best known for helping broken bones rejoin and heal. It should be taken after a bone is set to ensure proper joining of the bone. (A common recommendation is to take it daily in the first few days, then once a week while the bone is healing.)

Thanks, Plamenh, I've still got some arnica, and I'll look for Symphytum tomorrow.
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Teresa
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Teresa

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PostSubject: Re: Horrible fracture (Beware, GRAPHIC) -- what can I do?   Horrible fracture (Beware, GRAPHIC) -- what can I do? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Oct 13, 2009 6:49 pm

Cynthia wrote:
Hi Teresa,

Just a reminder (as the dose Charis recommends indicates) that the Baytril dose for pigeons is 10-20 mg per kilo bodyweight once every 24 hours.

The 2.5% solution that I use has 2.5 mg per 0.1 ml, so if you are using that would be roughly 0.3 ml, but it is important to check what solution the vet gives you.

I love it when pigeons crow triumphantly as they are returned to somewhere that they feel safe and at ahome.

Thanks for the clarification, Cynthia, I'd noted down the info incorrectly but I've now put it right.

Thanks
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Teresa
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Teresa

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PostSubject: Re: Horrible fracture (Beware, GRAPHIC) -- what can I do?   Horrible fracture (Beware, GRAPHIC) -- what can I do? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Oct 13, 2009 6:52 pm

Hercules is doing okay, but he's probably very sore as he's a bit cranky and his appetite wasn't brilliant.
I'll upload some more pics tomorrow.
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AZWhitefeather
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AZWhitefeather

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Horrible fracture (Beware, GRAPHIC) -- what can I do? - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Horrible fracture (Beware, GRAPHIC) -- what can I do?   Horrible fracture (Beware, GRAPHIC) -- what can I do? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Oct 13, 2009 7:04 pm

I'm sure he isn't feeling real chipper just yet. Horrible fracture (Beware, GRAPHIC) -- what can I do? - Page 2 319297
Sending you 'special get well wishes ' Hercules, for a speedy recovery.
We will be looking forward to more photos. Horrible fracture (Beware, GRAPHIC) -- what can I do? - Page 2 26340

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Cindy

A Pigeon's Prayer
Please watch over us while we fly,
Keeping us safe from the predators that share the sky.

If we become ill or injured in any way,
Please lead us to safety where we are welcome to stay.
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Matilda
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Matilda

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PostSubject: Re: Horrible fracture (Beware, GRAPHIC) -- what can I do?   Horrible fracture (Beware, GRAPHIC) -- what can I do? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeTue Oct 13, 2009 7:33 pm

I'm sure he feels sore. Baytril can take the appetite away too.
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plamenh
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plamenh

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PostSubject: Re: Horrible fracture (Beware, GRAPHIC) -- what can I do?   Horrible fracture (Beware, GRAPHIC) -- what can I do? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Oct 14, 2009 11:03 am

How was his first day after operation?
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Teresa
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Teresa

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PostSubject: Re: Horrible fracture (Beware, GRAPHIC) -- what can I do?   Horrible fracture (Beware, GRAPHIC) -- what can I do? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Oct 14, 2009 7:30 pm

First day after the operation, he was still Mr. Attitude: Tickled Pink

Horrible fracture (Beware, GRAPHIC) -- what can I do? - Page 2 DSCNB3178-r550

But he was a bit quiet and cranky, and his appetite wasn't brilliant. However, he enjoyed being picked up and held so that his sore leg dangled free. He was very good about taking his medicine and sipping a little chamomile tea with honey. He was curious about his surroundings and interested in Piper and Rambo. I love the way he looks you straight in the eye, quite unafraid, as if he's giving you marks out of ten! That's too funny

The following day he'd got fed up of resting his crop on his 'pillow', so he decided to stand on it instead and dangle his leg. Tickled Pink He's moving around more and the colour of his bad foot is SO much better! And I don't know if it was a trick of the light, but I would have sworn I saw him move two toes on that foot.
As soon as he was out of the basket he started stretching out his neck as if preparing to fly, so I now have to wedge him under my chin to have a free hand to change his bedding etc. :Rolling eyes:

Horrible fracture (Beware, GRAPHIC) -- what can I do? - Page 2 DSCNB3192-r375

OMG, I can hear him grooming right now!!! What a bird!


Last edited by Teresa on Wed Oct 14, 2009 8:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Matilda
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Matilda

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PostSubject: Re: Horrible fracture (Beware, GRAPHIC) -- what can I do?   Horrible fracture (Beware, GRAPHIC) -- what can I do? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Oct 14, 2009 8:05 pm

Fabulous and he looks so much better. Way To Go
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Teresa
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Teresa

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PostSubject: Re: Horrible fracture (Beware, GRAPHIC) -- what can I do?   Horrible fracture (Beware, GRAPHIC) -- what can I do? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Oct 14, 2009 8:09 pm

plamenh wrote:

Arnica: This remedy is useful for reducing the pain and swelling that accompany any new injury, and should be taken as soon as possible after a break occurs. It may also be helpful in calming the bird, since breaking a bone is traumatic as well as painful. Dose 1~2 tablets a day. Arnica may be used for several days while pain and soreness are prominent.

I haven't been able to get hold of Arnica in tablet form. (The one I used for Penny was a gel for external use). The health food shop sold me an oral solution, but I'm worried about some of the components, and the information in the leaflet is sketchy at best. Please have a look and tell me whether you think it's safe for pigeons.
Components per 100g: Arnica montana D3 5g; Bryonia cretica D4 5g; Acidum benzoicum and resin D3 5g; Colchicum autumnale D4 5g; Mercurialis perenis D3 5g; Eupatorium cannabinum D4 5g; Solanum lycopersicum D3 5g; Echinacea angustifolia D3 5g; Rhus toxicodendron D6 10g; Eucalyptus globulus D4 10g; Baptisia tinctoria D4 10g; Solanum nigrum D4 10g; Solanum dulcamara D4 10g; Apis mellifica D4 10g; Contains alcohol at 35%.
Dosage: For adult people, 10 drops (and for young babies 3 drops) 3 times a day (to a maximum of 12 times a day), diluted in a little water. The bottle is a drop-counter and contains 30ml of solution.

Quote :
Symphytum: This remedy is best known for helping broken bones rejoin and heal. It should be taken after a bone is set to ensure proper joining of the bone. (A common recommendation is to take it daily in the first few days, then once a week while the bone is healing.)
The health food shop didn't know this one at all. I'll need to look further afield.

I have NO idea
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plamenh
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plamenh

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PostSubject: Re: Horrible fracture (Beware, GRAPHIC) -- what can I do?   Horrible fracture (Beware, GRAPHIC) -- what can I do? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeWed Oct 14, 2009 11:29 pm

Arnica - try 1 drop a day.
Comfrey (Symphytum officinale L.) Knitbone, they should know it under consolda-maior
If you check the picture, you'll see that he is using toes on his leg so there is some sensitivity there.
It is great that he is doing well.
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AZWhitefeather
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PostSubject: Re: Horrible fracture (Beware, GRAPHIC) -- what can I do?   Horrible fracture (Beware, GRAPHIC) -- what can I do? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Oct 15, 2009 12:16 am

Rambo is looking much better, Teresa. Horrible fracture (Beware, GRAPHIC) -- what can I do? - Page 2 142829
Appreciate the updated pictures. Horrible fracture (Beware, GRAPHIC) -- what can I do? - Page 2 458406

Please do keep us posted.

_________________
Cindy

A Pigeon's Prayer
Please watch over us while we fly,
Keeping us safe from the predators that share the sky.

If we become ill or injured in any way,
Please lead us to safety where we are welcome to stay.
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Teresa
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Teresa

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Horrible fracture (Beware, GRAPHIC) -- what can I do? - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Horrible fracture (Beware, GRAPHIC) -- what can I do?   Horrible fracture (Beware, GRAPHIC) -- what can I do? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Oct 15, 2009 5:00 am

plamenh wrote:
Arnica - try 1 drop a day.
Will do. Many thanks!

Quote :
Comfrey (Symphytum officinale L.) Knitbone, they should know it under consolda-maior
My goodness, you are an encyclopaedia! Feeling great I'll go back to the shop in a moment. Horrible fracture (Beware, GRAPHIC) -- what can I do? - Page 2 193770

Quote :
If you check the picture, you'll see that he is using toes on his leg so there is some sensitivity there.
It is great that he is doing well.
Ah, so I wasn't seeing things! I'm so thrilled! Thrilled
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Teresa
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Teresa

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PostSubject: Re: Horrible fracture (Beware, GRAPHIC) -- what can I do?   Horrible fracture (Beware, GRAPHIC) -- what can I do? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Oct 15, 2009 9:14 pm

plamenh wrote:
Comfrey (Symphytum officinale L.) Knitbone, they should know it under consolda-maior

One shop I tried knew it as 'consolda-maior' and usually have it as tea, but it's out of stock and may take two weeks to arrive.

Another knew it as 'comfrey', but they only have it as a secondary ingredient in an aloe vera gel for external use. They asked what I wanted it for, and recommended Tecoma impetiginosa ('Pau d'Arco', I've actually got some in the house already) and Silicea Balsam (Silicic acid gel with 2.8% silicon dioxide [quartz?!]).
Is any of that any good?
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plamenh
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PostSubject: Re: Horrible fracture (Beware, GRAPHIC) -- what can I do?   Horrible fracture (Beware, GRAPHIC) -- what can I do? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeThu Oct 15, 2009 10:54 pm

Tabebuia impetiginosa - 'Pau d'Arco' has antimicrobial and antiimflammatory properties. You can use it in Candida and bacterial infections.

I would leave it only on Arnica.
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pigeonwriter
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PostSubject: Re: Horrible fracture (Beware, GRAPHIC) -- what can I do?   Horrible fracture (Beware, GRAPHIC) -- what can I do? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeFri Oct 16, 2009 2:47 pm

Wow Teresa,your little Hercules looks soooo much better that I can hardly believe it.
You have done such a wonderful job! You are a true Pigeon angel Pigeon angel Pigeon angel
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Teresa
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Teresa

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PostSubject: Re: Horrible fracture (Beware, GRAPHIC) -- what can I do?   Horrible fracture (Beware, GRAPHIC) -- what can I do? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeFri Oct 16, 2009 5:19 pm

plamenh wrote:
Tabebuia impetiginosa - 'Pau d'Arco' has antimicrobial and antiimflammatory properties. You can use it in Candida and bacterial infections.

I would leave it only on Arnica.

Will do, thank you so much!
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Teresa
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Teresa

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PostSubject: Re: Horrible fracture (Beware, GRAPHIC) -- what can I do?   Horrible fracture (Beware, GRAPHIC) -- what can I do? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSat Oct 17, 2009 7:09 pm

Today's pics:

Horrible fracture (Beware, GRAPHIC) -- what can I do? - Page 2 DSCNB3204b-r550

Horrible fracture (Beware, GRAPHIC) -- what can I do? - Page 2 DSCNB3203-r500

He must be feeling a lot more comfortable, because he's getting restless! :boing:
I'm just concerned about his poops, which are very liquid. Can that be a consequence of the trauma or the operation?
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AZWhitefeather
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PostSubject: Re: Horrible fracture (Beware, GRAPHIC) -- what can I do?   Horrible fracture (Beware, GRAPHIC) -- what can I do? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSat Oct 17, 2009 7:27 pm

Teresa wrote:

* He must be feeling a lot more comfortable, because he's getting restless! Horrible fracture (Beware, GRAPHIC) -- what can I do? - Page 2 922425

I'm just concerned about his poops, which are very liquid.
** Can that be a consequence of the trauma or the operation?

* It does sound like he's feeling better. Horrible fracture (Beware, GRAPHIC) -- what can I do? - Page 2 98152

** I think it certainly could be a factor. The poor little guy has been through a lot.
How is his eating coming along?

_________________
Cindy

A Pigeon's Prayer
Please watch over us while we fly,
Keeping us safe from the predators that share the sky.

If we become ill or injured in any way,
Please lead us to safety where we are welcome to stay.
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plamenh
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plamenh

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PostSubject: Re: Horrible fracture (Beware, GRAPHIC) -- what can I do?   Horrible fracture (Beware, GRAPHIC) -- what can I do? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSun Oct 18, 2009 1:00 am

Try to give him brown rice with the seeds. It will firm his poop. Baytril afect poop too.
I'm glad that he is so perky. That's too funny
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Teresa
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Teresa

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PostSubject: Re: Horrible fracture (Beware, GRAPHIC) -- what can I do?   Horrible fracture (Beware, GRAPHIC) -- what can I do? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSun Oct 18, 2009 8:16 pm

He's eating reasonably well, but drinking lots, so this could be a factor as well. And his diet is also different from what he was getting in the park (corn and bread, I suppose). I've started putting a little more corn with his seeds, and I will add some brown rice -- thanks for the tip!

He's a model patient! Although he grunts and wingslaps sometimes if I move too quickly, he enjoys being held and sips his medication drop by drop, in a very dignified way, like he knows it's good for him. I've been massaging his bad foot every day, but I haven't felt any of the toes move yet.
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AZWhitefeather
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PostSubject: Re: Horrible fracture (Beware, GRAPHIC) -- what can I do?   Horrible fracture (Beware, GRAPHIC) -- what can I do? - Page 2 Icon_minitimeSun Oct 18, 2009 11:37 pm

Teresa wrote:
He's eating reasonably well, but drinking lots, so this could be a factor as well. And his diet is also different from what he was getting in the park (corn and bread, I suppose). I've started putting a little more corn with his seeds, and I will add some brown rice -- thanks for the tip!

He's a model patient! Although he grunts and wingslaps sometimes if I move too quickly, he enjoys being held and sips his medication drop by drop, in a very dignified way, like he knows it's good for him. I've been massaging his bad foot every day, but I haven't felt any of the toes move yet.

Now that's a good patient. Horrible fracture (Beware, GRAPHIC) -- what can I do? - Page 2 893919

_________________
Cindy

A Pigeon's Prayer
Please watch over us while we fly,
Keeping us safe from the predators that share the sky.

If we become ill or injured in any way,
Please lead us to safety where we are welcome to stay.
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