Dehydrated squeaker with scissor beak

I haven't tried to give him anything more solid than formula, as he's only recently stopped doing swallowing movements after eating, and I was worried there might still be canker out of sight, and more solid food wouldn't go through. The formula is about as thick as it can go before the syringe fails to pick it up properly and it gets full of air bubbles which are hard to get rid of.
His poops still look like oil paint, surrounded in a fair amount of liquid, but they're no longer bright dark green -- they're a dark greenish brown.
Just a moment ago I went to check on him (that was 3 hrs after lunch and 2 hrs after meds) and I was horrified to see he had vomited about 3 or 4 ml of the formula. But he doesn't smell like he's got sour crop, neither is there liquid in his crop. I think -- I hope, at any rate -- that happened because he had 18 ml in one go at his last meal, so I'm going to limit him to 15 ml X 4 meals, and for his next meal I'm just going to give him baby apple sauce. If he vomits again, will it be best to start him on Nystatin too?

Teresa.........I've had that happen with my canker birds as well. You are correct in giving smaller amounts more times a day. I would water up the formula a bit as well.

Dr. Hauck instructed me to add 2cc's of yogurt and a portion of baby applesauce directly mixed into the formula. This worked really well with Sweetie who also had the weird swallowing movements after feeding.

Your're doing a great job These extreem canker cases, especially in the young ones really take a great deal of time to be resolved.

Louise

Jackie's Mom wrote:

Teresa.........I've had that happen with my canker birds as well. You are correct in giving smaller amounts more times a day. I would water up the formula a bit as well.

Dr. Hauck instructed me to add 2cc's of yogurt and a portion of baby applesauce directly mixed into the formula. This worked really well with Sweetie who also had the weird swallowing movements after feeding.

Your're doing a great job These extreem canker cases, especially in the young ones really take a great deal of time to be resolved.

Louise

I agree all around.

Yikes, I think he'd eaten plastic pellets -- or are those canker lesions??!
He vomited most of the apple sauce, right after I gave it to him!
Then I offered him warm water with honey in a container, and he threw up the rest of the apple sauce in it. :eek: I saw two small things, roughly the size of those small red lentils, floating in the water -- one yellow, the other white. They look like plastic. They certainly aren't anything that was in his food (not even the bits of cereal in the live yoghurt) or that he could have had access to in the house. I've never seen anything like that.
I photographed them and then I tried cutting them in half. It cut with the same resistance as hard plastic, and the cut surfaces are shiny. Surely canker lesions wouldn't be like that -- or would they?

I'm going to try to give him another few cc of warm apple sauce. Then I'll come back and upload the photos.
Poor Arislan! He's all hunched up, but he still pecks -- that's something...

Nothing is staying down, not the apple sauce (tried twice, first 8 ml then 5 ml), not even the electrolytes (tried twice too, first 6 ml then 5 ml), though the second time he was only sick about 4 minutes later, rather than immediately after. His meds are due in 2 hours' time, and I can't see him keeping anything down till then, let alone the meds. I just hope the last dose of meds went through...
Things don't look good.
I'm teaching all morning tomorrow, so I can only take him to the vet's in the afternoon. And I don't know how I'm going to keep him from dehydrating till then...

Can canker obstructions be seen on X-ray or scan? And if so, can they be surgically removed?

Teresa...........I can't say for certain, but I think what you saw were canker leisions. I had a bird that I removed with tweesers canker from the mouth and they were little balls, solid like a rock. I never tried to cut them open, so I can't say for sure.

If that is the case, I'm thinking that the meds are working and have loosened up the canker and they are now blocking her digestive track. This would cause vomiting. How do her poops look?

I would not try to give her anything else for awhile. Let's give her system a little rest. I would try to get the meds in her when they are due.

If you are not able to get her to keep anything down, you will need to have her hydrated sub q.

I have no idea if canker can be removed surgically.

Keep her warm and let her rest.

I'm having a current crisis with my new canker rescue as well. I'm going to Dr. Hauck in 2 hours from now.

I pray your little one will be allright.

Louise

Thank you, Louise, and very best wishes for your rescue!

Arislan's last poops are very mucous, with less distinction between solid and liquid phases, and the urates are yellowish. He's resting in his nest, over a heating pad. I'll give him the Flagyl at the usual time then, even if on an empty stomach. Let's hope it stays down.

I hope everything goes well with the medication and it stays down, Teresa.

Do you have any Pepto Bismo? I know that Petra couldn't find any in Germany and so I don't know if you can. If so, give the bird a drop or two...wait 20 minutes or so and the medicine should stay down.
As far as removing canker, it can cause a fatal bleed.

He's had his 6 mg of Flagyl dissolved in the smallest amount of water possible, to make up 0.1 ml of solution. Ten minutes later he hadn't brought it up, so I put him back in his nest.

A worrying development is that some white spots are visible in his mouth now. Can canker lesions be white? I would normaly associate white spots with a fungal infection. He had 0.15 ml Nystatin this morning and should have another dose now. I think I'll wait half an hour to an hour to allow the Flagyl to be absorbed and then give it a try.

Matilda wrote:

Do you have any Pepto Bismo? I know that Petra couldn't find any in Germany and so I don't know if you can. If so, give the bird a drop or two...wait 20 minutes or so and the medicine should stay down.

No, I don't have any, and I don't think we have it over here either. Do you know the composition? Because I know I can get an anti-emetic for humans which was prescribed for my dog once -- maybe that one would do, it's a case of working out the dosage.

Quote :

As far as removing canker, it can cause a fatal bleed.

Eek, that's out of the question, then. I knew we should never try to remove them, but I kinda hoped a surgeon would be able to do it safely.

Here are the pics of the two 'things' he vomited. They're about 3 mm across.

The first picture shows real size and colour:



And the second one is the largest I could blow them up to. Their colour appears much darker because the contrast was cranked right up.

Thanks, Charis! I've made a note of the composition and trade names and will take it to the chemist's first thing.

He's not keeping the meds down. When I picked him up to give him the Nystatin, there was a bit more sick in his nest, including the whitish, powdery patch that was the Flagyl solution. And as soon as I gave him the Nystatin, he started trying to heave up, so that won't last either. I'll have to ask the vet tomorrow to give him some sub q fluids.

Teresa...........The primary ingredient of Pepto Bismol and what it is universally know as around the world is "Milk of Bismuth"


Louise

Thanks, Louise.

He's likely beyond Pepto working... sub-Q fluids would be a good idea. Poor little guy and poor you...still recovering from being sick.

So very soory to hear that this pij isn't doing any better.

Could the white spots in the mouth be a yeast infection?

He's weaker, doesn't peck me now when I pick him up, just wants to sleep.
Failing all else, I decided to give him 0.5 ml Fuller's Earth suspension. I've used it before as an antibiotic and anti-emetic, and there are claims well beyond that. It sure can't hurt. I hope he makes it.

Teresa...........I am so very sorry that Arislan is not doing any better.

I think I would let his system rest. I wouldn't try putting anything else into him for the night. The heaving and vomiting will only make him weaker and more dehydrated at this point.

Getting to the Vet for Sub-Q fluids I think should be the first and formost treatment. I'm sure your vet will know how to proceed from there.

I know exactly how you feel. It hurts so much to see these precious little birds suffering.

Sending positive, healing thoughts and prayers to you both.

Louise

Like Robin...I wonder about the yeast.

I also agree with Louise that it would be better not to add anything else to the mix and to get him in for sub-Q fluids as soon as you can.

Poor little guy...I'm so sorry he's not doing well.

Teresa,
I hope he pulls through.

Chuck

Arislan has crossed the rainbow bridge.

Thank you for your special thoughts and prayers, I'm sure they will follow him in his flight.

(Charis and Robin, I thought about the yeast too -- hence the Nystatin).