2 squeakers that need help

Hey Guys,

Just wanted to check with you all, today when I was feeding Parthu he was trying very hard to escape from my hand, after I released him, I saw some worms like insects on my shirt. They were not exactly like a worm, but like tiny flies. They dint have wings or legs. They were black in color and could not move faster. Almost of the size of an uncooked rice. Is this usually found in baby birds?

Hi Dev,
I'm not familiar with the different types of worms, but from your description, it does sound like Parthu might have them. The little flies will usually move pretty fast.

I know it sounds a little gross, but did you happen to get a picture of them?

Looks more like a case of bird mites to me I was just going through the net after Dev told me about them and from what he described i felt it could be mites. Because aren't worms normally found inside the bird's system?

If they are mites, it sounds scary, as from what i read about them, they could spread very easily everywhere and to other pigeons as well

I asked him if he could take a pic but he told me that they were extremely minute to be even seen...they were probably less than 1 mm. He happened to see them because he was wearing a light coloured shirt and after he put Parthu down, he noticed a few of them moving around on his shirt.

Here's the link i found:

http://www.birdmites.org/mites.html

I don't know what you have available there in the form of birds supplies at the pet store, but do check and see if there is a spray available for lice and mites on birds. It would be a good idea to spray all the birds in your house.

This is one example of one you might find available.

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=6007

priya wrote:

Looks more like a case of bird mites to me

I was just going through the net after Dev told me about them and from what he described i felt it could be mites. Because aren't worms normally found inside the bird's system?

If they are mites, it sounds scary, as from what i read about them, they could spread very easily everywhere and to other pigeons as well

I asked him if he could take a pic but he told me that they were extremely minute to be even seen...they were probably less than 1 mm. He happened to see them because he was wearing a light coloured shirt and after he put Parthu down, he noticed a few of them moving around on his shirt.

Here's the link i found:

http://www.birdmites.org/mites.html

You are probably exactly right, Priya.
I have no idea why I suggested worms.

Please do not panic. Try to get a product (powder) with Diatomaceous Earth - this is absolutely non toxic but may not be inhaled. I would never use products with pyrethrum contents - this IS toxic for birds and human and can cause severe nerve damage and/or allergies if not used properly.

The Diatomaceous Earth simply destroys the keratin of all insects and lets them die/suffocate. A simple breathing mask is sufficinet while powdering the birds. I have done it with a very soft brush against feather lice (?) - the ones which eat the feathers. It worked wonderfully on Rudi who was full of them. The powder will work on mites too but probably needs to be repeated after a few days. And probably a second time...

I have used the spray with very good results. I used it to take care of a severe mite infestation in my house a couple of winters ago.. I also use the Diatomaceous Earth for ant control. I've found it very slow to work, which is bad if you are dealing with a severe infestation.
With the use of either dust or powder it is very important to avoid you or the bird getting the product into eyes and mouth and nose.

pigeonwriter wrote:

Please do not panic. Try to get a product (powder) with Diatomaceous Earth - this is absolutely non toxic but may not be inhaled. I would never use products with pyrethrum contents - this IS toxic for birds and human and can cause severe nerve damage and/or allergies if not used properly.

The Diatomaceous Earth simply destroys the keratin of all insects and lets them die/suffocate. A simple breathing mask is sufficinet while powdering the birds. I have done it with a very soft brush against feather lice (?) - the ones which eat the feathers. It worked wonderfully on Rudi who was full of them. The powder will work on mites too but probably needs to be repeated after a few days. And probably a second time...

Matilda wrote:

I have used the spray with very good results. I used it to take care of a severe mite infestation in my house a couple of winters ago.. I also use the Diatomaceous Earth for ant control. I've found it very slow to work, which is bad if you are dealing with a severe infestation.
With the use of either dust or powder it is very important to avoid you or the bird getting the product into eyes and mouth and nose.

Thanks Petra and Charis for the details. I was stuck up with some office work and could not reply soon. I will try for the similar products here in India.

Also an update on Parthu. He is continuing to be good, the remaining pox on his had fallen off last night. He does not have any other pox left on his body, atleast nothing that is visible. I am encouraging him to eat on his own. He is able to eat most of the time, but not very interested though The area where the pox was present is drying up, no further infection or anything that is odd. I am hoping that everything is going well with him

My other pigeon Birdie, who has PMV is very fond of Parthu. Though it has been more than 12 weeks since Birdie was rescued and treated for PMV, he still has his neck twisted Just to be on safer side, I do not want these two birds to come in contact directly, so I have placed Parthu's cage at a higher place. Parthu and Birdie can see other. Everyday when I return home in the evening, I would find Birdie sitting next Parthu's cage He loves to be with Parthu.

Dev.........Thanks for the most encouraging update on Parthu I know he will continue to improve. You have done an amazing job with him.

So sorry that Birdie is still suffering with the PMV. It's sad to hear how lonely he must feel and how badly he wants to be near Parthu. I hope they are still able to see eachother.

Louise

Dev - when you have solved the problem with the mites I would let Birdie and Parthu together. I have observed that healthy pijjies do have a very positive influence on PMV birds - it apparently helps them to recover through motivation. Lonely birds do have more problems. There should not be any danger for infection any more after that time.

Sending you healing thoughts and much love!

I don't want to sound like a pain, but I'm an over cautious worrier. Are you sure it isn't too soon to let the birds get close? I say this because I'm not really sure how long you have to wait for him to be not infective to other birds. This is part of an article on Pox that I had found online a while ago.


Avian pox can also be transmitted by direct contact between infected and susceptible birds. The virus is transmitted through abraded or broken skin or the conjunctiva (mucous membrane covering the anterior surface of the eyeball). Indirect transmission of the pox virus can also occur via ingestion when food and water sources, feeders, perches, cages, or clothing are contaminated with virus-containing scabs shed from the lesions of an infected bird. The pox virus is highly resistant to drying and may survive months to years in the dried scabs. Indirect transmission can also occur via inhalation of pox virus infected dander, feather debris and air-borne particles.





http://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,1607,7-153-10370_12150_12220-26362--,00.html

pigeonwriter wrote:

Please do not panic. Try to get a product (powder) with Diatomaceous Earth - this is absolutely non toxic but may not be inhaled. I would never use products with pyrethrum contents - this IS toxic for birds and human and can cause severe nerve damage and/or allergies if not used properly.

The Diatomaceous Earth simply destroys the keratin of all insects and lets them die/suffocate. A simple breathing mask is sufficinet while powdering the birds. I have done it with a very soft brush against feather lice (?) - the ones which eat the feathers. It worked wonderfully on Rudi who was full of them. The powder will work on mites too but probably needs to be repeated after a few days. And probably a second time...

Lots of the things we use are toxic. Wormers are toxic. But these things are safe when used correctly. Sometimes we do need to use these things on the birds to keep things under control.

Thanks for the update, Dev.
I'm glad to hear Parthu continues to do well. Sure glad that last darn pox has fallen off.
Once those nasty mites are taken care of I'm sure Parthu is going to feel like he's on top of the world.

You've done an awesome job.

Yes, you've done a good job Dev. I'm glad he's doing better.

NiteOwl wrote:

Lots of the things we use are toxic. Wormers are toxic. But these things are safe when used correctly. Sometimes we do need to use these things on the birds to keep things under control.

Nightowl - I totally agree with you BUT the point I am always worried about is that we are using too many "toxic" components too early and too often. I know this is done because we love these birds but we always should be aware that all these substances have a very bad influence on the natural immune system of the bird and can even destroy it beyond repair. If we do this to ferals who are supposed to fly free again and who come in contact with all the dreaded illnesses out there again then we condemn these birds to becoming infected again 100 % for sure and then they will probably die.

Sometimes we use a canon for things where a fly swat would be sufficient if we only had a bit more patience! Btw - this applies to humans as well.

pigeonwriter wrote:

NiteOwl wrote:

Lots of the things we use are toxic. Wormers are toxic. But these things are safe when used correctly. Sometimes we do need to use these things on the birds to keep things under control.

Nightowl - I totally agree with you BUT the point I am always worried about is that we are using too many "toxic" components too early and too often. I know this is done because we love these birds but we always should be aware that all these substances have a very bad influence on the natural immune system of the bird and can even destroy it beyond repair. If we do this to ferals who are supposed to fly free again and who come in contact with all the dreaded illnesses out there again then we condemn these birds to becoming infected again 100 % for sure and then they will probably die.

Sometimes we use a canon for things where a fly swat would be sufficient if we only had a bit more patience! Btw - this applies to humans as well.

Tell me, if you or one of your children came home with lice, would you use the medicine that would knock them out and get rid of the problem quickly, or would you use something like diatamaceous earth, which would take longer, and be less effective? The bird has been through enough, and letting him suffer further with insects that can further debilitate him, and at the very least, make him yet more ucomfortable, isn't productive. Also, depending on what the bugs are, often times they can spread to people, and infest a home. When you find bugs on a bird, Better to get rid of them as soon as you can. These meds have been developed to be safe when used properly. Treating bugs has nothing to do with destroying their immune system. Letting him become further weakened or debilitated, while trying to get rid of bugs over a period of time just doesn't make sense.
And BTW, diatamaceous earth should be used with caution also, as you do not want to get it in his eyes, or have him breath it in.

Apparently it is not desired by some people to have a different opinion in this forum regarding treatment of sick birds. And this is making me sad because I thought it is different here and we are all an open-minded bunch of people. But this is now the same intolerant behaviour I have already encountered many times at other places. Only because someone has so and so many years of experience does not mean s/he is always right. I am really getting tired about this ignorant behaviour.

I only try to help, to bring in new thoughts and am talking about my own experience and only that. Anyone can do what s/he thinks is best or ignore it but sarcastic comments do not help the case.

Petra...NiteOwl was disagreeing with you...that's all. Open minded people can disagree and it's okay. You do it your way...she does it her way...I do it my way and so on. NiteOwl is not ignorant nor is her behavior.

After having been through an experience with mites in my house...it was a night mare and I spent many sleepless night and hours each day, for weeks battling them. I would wake up with bites that itched horribly... I thought I would go crazy . NiteOwl was kind enough to send me the product you fear. Even with that product, it took weeks to rid my home and birds of the mites. It was a very dark time for me.
Honestly...my experience is that diatomaceous earth does not work well enough.

Please Ladies,.......... let's not go this route.

We ARE different from the other sites. We may be a small group, but we are the best of them all We are all dedicated to the welfare of our birds. Think of our name "Pigeon Angels" Doesn't that say it all. There is not a member here that would not do what THEY felt was best for their bird.

We all have tremendous respect for eachother. We all really do care about eachother. We all worry when we know something is wrong with one of us. I know none of us would never intentionally try to insult, disrespect or disregard another member. We are an angel family here, and like most families we will tend to disagree at times.

We must agree to disagree in this situation, knowing that all opinions are made with a common interest........the welfare of the birds.

I personally have never had a problem with mites (knock on wood). But I do know that if I had asked for help/advice with a mite situation or any other situation for that matter, I would appreciate and respect all points of views. It is ultimately up to the custodian/caretaker of the bird to choose what option THEY feel most comfortable with and in their opinion is best for the bird.

LET US NEVER FORGET WHO WE ARE





Louise

I am very sorry both i and Dev didn't visit this thread for a couple of days
It has been a very hectic week for the both of us. Work and the bird patients have been keeping Dev busy and for me a couple of matters at home.

I want to send a big to all our angels who are constantly with us and help us in every possible way to take care and treat the birds. Without you we would have been lost, more so because unfortunately here in India we don't get most of the medicines and there are hardly any avian vets or bird rehabbers :( So whatever Dev or I am able to do is only because of all you special angels
A big thank you to each one of you

I agree with both Petra and Jay. Parthu seems very depressed and lonely as he is always kept in the cage and offlate he has stopped eating properly. He used to eat on his own but from past 4 days, he has shown drastic decrease in interest to eat. This has been very worrying for Dev and me because Dev will be travelling for 2 weeks starting tomorrow. In his absence his room mate has to take care. He is not very confident with feeding birds, so this has been giving us nightmares :(

Dev has taught him a zillion times how to hand feed Birdie, our bird with the possible PMV symptom. He is still very nervous but we are hoping he will manage. We were thinking we wouldn't have to worry about hand feeding Parthu as he was able to eat on his own but now he too is very reluctant to eat on his own :(

We are thinking it could be because he is always kept away from the other birds. I think the poor baby is very depressed. But there's nothing much we can do about it as we cannot risk letting him mingle with the other birds. The arrangement is such that he can see Birdie from his cage but they do not have physical contact with each other.
We are hoping that Dev's room mate can hand feed Parthu too if our worst fears that he totally stops eating on his own comes true :(

It is really very helpful for members like us to learn and know of different treatment methods used by each of you. Since we don't get much help here in the form of vets, detailed treatment plan and meds are always a big welcome

Unfortunately we again haven't been able to get the spray Charis mentioned or the diatamaceous earth for the mite treatment here :(
Dev has been using the pigeon dust on Parthu but doesn't look like it has helped much :(
Parthu continues to have mites. Looks like it is going to be very tough to get rid of them? :( Just hoping they don't catch on to the other birds or multiply rapidly.

and to think that the mites might spread in the entire house

Hi Priya,
We so appreciate the update. I know just how hectic our day to day living can get.
Sometimes ya just want to scream!!

I'm sorry Parthu has taken a step back with regard to eating. I will be keeping my fingers crossed that this is just temporary and that in Dev's absence his roommate will be able to help him along.

As far as finding something for the mites, if this hasn't already been suggested, try any store that had garden section. Look for Sevin dust powder. It works really well in getting rid of mites. That's what was recommended to me nearly 8 years ago and I still use it when the need arises. Just make sure to cover the bird's head before dusting. I hope this helps and you are able to find some.

AZWhitefeather wrote:

Hi Priya,
We so appreciate the update. I know just how hectic our day to day living can get.
Sometimes ya just want to scream!!

I'm sorry Parthu has taken a step back with regard to eating. I will be keeping my fingers crossed that this is just temporary and that in Dev's absence his roommate will be able to help him along.

As far as finding something for the mites, if this hasn't already been suggested, try any store that had garden section. Look for Sevin dust powder. It works really well in getting rid of mites. That's what was recommended to me nearly 8 years ago and I still use it when the need arises. Just make sure to cover the bird's head before dusting. I hope this helps and you are able to find some.

Wishing you a very safe journey, Dev.

I agree with Cindy about the sevin dust being great, but I find it easier to put it in a small container or tin, with a small powder puff, and just apply it with the powder puff. Works like a charm, and it's really easy to get it exactly where you want it. I don't think you or the bird inhale so much this way either. But it does work great if you can get it.

NiteOwl wrote:

AZWhitefeather wrote:

Hi Priya,
We so appreciate the update. I know just how hectic our day to day living can get.
Sometimes ya just want to scream!!

I'm sorry Parthu has taken a step back with regard to eating. I will be keeping my fingers crossed that this is just temporary and that in Dev's absence his roommate will be able to help him along.

As far as finding something for the mites, if this hasn't already been suggested, try any store that had garden section. Look for Sevin dust powder. It works really well in getting rid of mites. That's what was recommended to me nearly 8 years ago and I still use it when the need arises. Just make sure to cover the bird's head before dusting. I hope this helps and you are able to find some.

Wishing you a very safe journey, Dev.

I agree with Cindy about the sevin dust being great, but I find it easier to put it in a small container or tin, with a small powder puff, and just apply it with the powder puff.

Works like a charm, and it's really easy to get it exactly where you want it. I don't think you or the bird inhale so much this way either. But it does work great if you can get it.

That's a great suggestion/idea, Jay.