Help! My little pigeon is seriously ill!

Hi to everyone!

Here are the latest news about Comis, Selini and my other birds! Comis is eating more, which is a good sign! She is also walking more! On 9 November Comis weighed 225gr and Selini 211gr. Today (7 December) Comis weighs 265gr and Selini 240gr, so in one month Comis has put on 40gr and Selini 29gr!

I have been giving Nystatin (twice a day) and Sulfac (once a day) to all my birds except for Comis (who has already finished all the medicines) for 5 days now (today is the 5th day). Shall I give them Sulfac for 1 more day (it is written on the box that I should give it to them for 5-6 days) and Nystatin for 2 more days (that is 7 days all together)? What do you think?

The adult birds are eating less these days... Perhaps the medicines have reduced their appetite, I don't know... But I'm a little worried about Orfeas because today he stayed on the floor all the time and he seemed too weak and too reluctant to fly (like Comis)... He used to be very lively and he flew around all the time! But since yesterday he looks really miserable...! I had given him Metronidazole for 5 days and Baytril for 10 days, like I did to the other birds, and now he is taking Nystatin and Sulfac. Could it be that the medicines are making him ill? I don't know why he is suddenly showing signs of illness... I hope his condition doesn't worsen...

In fact, these days Orfeas is incubating his eggs (which are actually empty) and he is generally very quiet... But 3 days ago I had a surprise...! I found 3 eggs in his nest!! The two eggs were big but the third one was really tiny!! It was so tiny that it looked like a marble!! If it was Orfeas that lay the 3rd egg this means that he is a actually a female and so you had guessed well, Orfeas and Kirki are actually a lesbian couple!! Unless it was Kirki who lay the 3rd egg... but is it possible for pigeons to lay 3 eggs instead of 2? The strange thing is that there is no 4rth egg...

Since it seems that Orfeas is actually a female I found a new name for her... From now on I'll call her Halimah (that's the name of a black Arabian woman who was so charming and intelligent that she managed to change the heart of her cruel husband who used to kill all the women he married...!!) Orfeas is black and very beautiful, so this name suits her well! However, she is not popular... All birds, except for Kirki, hate her and they always try to attack her! Today I put all the other birds in the other room and I let her alone to rest...

Comis' poops look normal again (some days ago they looked big and green and I was worried but now they look alright again!) and Selini is learning how to fly and she is jumping around... However, she is not very active because she likes to stay close to Comis who is passive... Comis is always eating, drinking and sleeping and she does not even try to get out of her basket... Shall I give her Metronidazole again? For how many days this time? (The first time I had given her Metronidazole for 6 days). Shall I also give her another cycle of Sulfac? I have already given her 2 cycles (5 days each). When she finished the first cycle, I waited for 5 days and then I gave her the 2nd one. She finished the second cycle a few days ago. Shall I give her a 3rd cycle of Sulfac as well? The other birds are taking Sulfac for the first time, so shall I treat them again 10 days after they finish their first cycle?

Lots of love
Irene

About Halimah...

If she laid an egg 3 days ago, she should have laid another between 7 and 9 pm yesterday. Her behaviour is typical of egg binding, the inability to pass an egg, and it can be fatal. She needs your immediate attention-- she needs to be put in a warm, humid environment and be given a calcium+vitamin D3 supplement NOW! A warm bath may help, and a lubricant cream/vaseline around the vent will help the egg to pass. If there is any indication that the egg has broken inside her or her symptoms persist tomorrow, she will need to see a vet straight away.

This article has everything you need to know about egg binding:

http://www.pigeonangels.com/pigeon-and-dove-illnesses-injuries-their-symptoms-and-treatment-f11/symptoms-of-a-bird-that-is-egg-bound-t1630.htm

Irene wrote:

Hi to everyone!

Here are the latest news about Comis, Selini and my other birds! Comis is eating more, which is a good sign! She is also walking more! On 9 November Comis weighed 225gr and Selini 211gr. Today (7 December) Comis weighs 265gr and Selini 240gr, so in one month Comis has put on 40gr and Selini 29gr!


That's very good.


I have been giving Nystatin (twice a day) and Sulfac (once a day) to all my birds except for Comis (who has already finished all the medicines) for 5 days now (today is the 5th day). Shall I give them Sulfac for 1 more day (it is written on the box that I should give it to them for 5-6 days) and Nystatin for 2 more days (that is 7 days all together)? What do you think?

Please stop the sulfac now. It's probably ok to stop the nystatin as well.

The adult birds are eating less these days... Perhaps the medicines have reduced their appetite, I don't know... But I'm a little worried about Orfeas because today he stayed on the floor all the time and he seemed too weak and too reluctant to fly (like Comis)... He used to be very lively and he flew around all the time! But since yesterday he looks really miserable...! I had given him Metronidazole for 5 days and Baytril for 10 days, like I did to the other birds, and now he is taking Nystatin and Sulfac. Could it be that the medicines are making him ill? I don't know why he is suddenly showing signs of illness... I hope his condition doesn't worsen...



Stop all medications for him immediately. Keep him warm and hand feed him the peas and corn.

In fact, these days Orfeas is incubating his eggs (which are actually empty) and he is generally very quiet... But 3 days ago I had a surprise...! I found 3 eggs in his nest!! The two eggs were big but the third one was really tiny!! It was so tiny that it looked like a marble!! If it was Orfeas that lay the 3rd egg this means that he is a actually a female and so you had guessed well, Orfeas and Kirki are actually a lesbian couple!! Unless it was Kirki who lay the 3rd egg... but is it possible for pigeons to lay 3 eggs instead of 2? The strange thing is that there is no 4rth egg...

The probably are both hens. I think they are deficient in calcium and vitaminD.

Since it seems that Orfeas is actually a female I found a new name for her... From now on I'll call her Halimah (that's the name of a black Arabian woman who was so charming and intelligent that she managed to change the heart of her cruel husband who used to kill all the women he married...!!) Orfeas is black and very beautiful, so this name suits her well! However, she is not popular... All birds, except for Kirki, hate her and they always try to attack her! Today I put all the other birds in the other room and I let her alone to rest...

Comis' poops look normal again (some days ago they looked big and green and I was worried but now they look alright again!) and Selini is learning how to fly and she is jumping around... However, she is not very active because she likes to stay close to Comis who is passive... Comis is always eating, drinking and sleeping and she does not even try to get out of her basket... Shall I give her Metronidazole again? For how many days this time? (The first time I had given her Metronidazole for 6 days). Shall I also give her another cycle of Sulfac? I have already given her 2 cycles (5 days each). When she finished the first cycle, I waited for 5 days and then I gave her the 2nd one. She finished the second cycle a few days ago. Shall I give her a 3rd cycle of Sulfac as well? The other birds are taking Sulfac for the first time, so shall I treat them again 10 days after they finish their first cycle?


Don't give Comis any more medicine at this point.

Lots of love
Irene

Please go to the pet shop and look for a calcium supliment with vitaminD.

I just found a new egg, I don't know which bird laid it but I actually found Arapis and Stachtoboota on top of it, so probably they are the parents, unless Halimah laid it in their nest... The problem is that all birds like the same nest and they are always fighting for it, so I'm not sure whose egg is this one... The egg was laid only 2-3 hours ago, because I had checked the whole cage before and there were no eggs at all! If the parents are Arapis and Stachtoboota then I must find another egg tomorrow or after tomorrow... As for Halima and Kirki they are now sitting on their eggs, next to each other and the eggs in their nest are still 3... The new egg that I found some time ago has a normal size but its surface is very rough... The egg of Halima was smooth and tiny! It could be that the other one is still in her which worries me a lot because I read the information that you sent me...!!

A couple of days ago I went to the pharmacy and I asked for Calcium... They gave me a thing called "DIBASE 10.000 U.l./ml, oral solution, Colecalciferolo (Vitamina D3)" They told me it's Calcium for babies... Could I use that? I haven't given it to my birds yet because I'm giving them the other medicines and I didn't want to 'torture' them too much but if they need it urgently I will do so! What would be the right dose for Halima?

I'm thinking that Anemoni may also suffer from egg binding... The last time she laid eggs that were too thin and they broke as soon as they came out of her... The last days she is sitting in her nest and she is behaving as if she was incubating eggs but actually there is nothing in her nest...! Anemoni is also very quiet these days, but Halimah is much worse!! She is not even eating! I noticed today that she was not walking well...! Now it is 11.30pm here and the birds are sleeping... Shall I wake them up to give them Calcium? Shall I put olive oil on the vent of Halima since I don't have any other lubricant? Shall I give her a warm bath now or shall I wait until tomorrow morning? I don't know what to do... Even the vet (the one that the representative of the European Avian vets recommended me) is too far away, out of the city, so if I take the birds to him tomorrow I'll have to travel for about 3 hours to get there and 3 to come back... Will the birds survive all this stress? Aaah... I don't know what to do!! May God protect the poor birds...! I wish I was a vet myself and I could treat them myself...! But how could anyone remove the eggs from inside them if they are stuck...? They would need a surgery, wouldn't they?

Right now Halimah and Kirki are sleeping next to each other so they are keeping each other warm... That's good for them... But there is also another problem... I'm not sure if the last egg was laid by Halimah or by Kirki... If the two first eggs were laid by Halimah and the last one by Kirki then it is Kirki who is in trouble... But Kirki seems alright, she is eating and flying normally, while Halimah seems ill, so probably it is Halimah that has the problem... I hope she survives the night...! Poor birds, as soon as they recover from one illness, they get new ones...

If Halima is resting comfortably in the nest and not showing any discomfort, I would give her the calcium but, apart from that, she should be okay till morning, but it would be a good idea to raise the temperature -- for example, by putting a heater with a wet towel on top (for moisture) near their nest.
The calcium I use is different -- for baby calcium I might go with giving a pigeon 1/10 of the baby dosage, but Charis is the best person to ask.

It seems to me that all your hens need extra calcium+vitamin D3, as rough surfaces on eggs are also caused by lack of calcium, and -- as was pointed to me recently -- eggs shouldn't break that easily. I see the problem you have when you can't be sure who laid what egg, so the best for now is watch Halima's behaviour. And I really think it's very important to give her the calcium today.
Don't think that medicating pigeons is torturing them. Of course it's inconvenient for them, and we can't explain to them why we have to do it, but they rely on you to do what's best for them -- and what's best for them is giving them the care and the medications they need to get well.

Irene...you need to put them on the heating pad, set on the lowest setting. On top of the heating pad, put a towel which is barely damp. That way they will get the heat and humidity.

I can't advise you about the calcium you bought. Perhaps you can call the vet that was recommended to you and ask for instructions from him.

For my birds, I buy pills for humans. The are composed of oyster shell calcium = 250mg and vitamin D = 125 IU.
I break them into 1/4 pills and give 1/4 in the morning and evening for 2 days and 1/4 a day for 3 days after. I start think treatment when each hen abandons her eggs and is getting ready to lay agian. In addition, I always have oyster shell available for them to eat.

Halima and Kirki are sleeping in their nest in their cage which is next to the radiator. I'm keeping the radiator on for them. Unfortunately the heating pad switches off by itself every 3 hours, so it's not ideal for the night... Also, I don't think Halimah and Kirki would sit on it... They want to be on their eggs... Their nest is in the bathroom which is always very humid... As for the Calcium, I'll go to the pharmacy again tomorrow morning I'll and ask them to give me pills, if it is better... On the box of the oral solution that I have now it is written that babies should take 3-4 drops (750-1000 U.l.) a day so I guess the dose for a bird would be so small that it would probably be difficult even to measure! I'm not even sure if this oral solution is actually Calcium... It says: 'Bitamin D3'... As for the Oyster shell sand, I also have it and I give it to my birds but they don't eat it... Only Meli, the male one, eats it or plays with it but the hens ignore it completely...! In fact, they don't eat anything else except for seeds... They don't like peas, they don't eat any vegetables and so they don't get all the bitamins and the minerals they need... Even their seeds they eat them just to survive, they are not very excited about them... The only two things they love eating are: black soil for plants and wholemeal bread! They are crazy for these... I have put a pot of black soil in their cage and I keep adding soil because they eat it so fast! I guess they receive minerals from it, I don't know why they like it so much... I also give them a piece of wholemeal bread everyday as a treat... Are there any foods that are good sources of Calcium?

It could be they don't like the oyster shell sand. The kind I get is actually small pieces of shell. Just to be clear...oyster shell alone does not contain vitaminD. I know that you can buy liquid calcium with vitaminD. Ask your pharmacist.

Being by the radiator will not provide the kind of heat the birds need. They need it underneath them with a damp towel on top for the moisture [humidity].

Also...your potting soil may contain small pieces of gravel which they need to digest seed. You must be very careful that there is no fertilizer in the soil as that could be contributing to the thin shells.

You can add small dried peas, safflower seed, lentils, chopped peanuts, small corn for popping, small sunflower seeds, buckwheat seeds to what ever seed mix you are feeding the birds. Also try chopped green leaf lettuce, in small amounts and minced carrots. Avocado, by the way, is very toxic and will kill them. I thought to mention it because many don't realized that.

The pharmasist said that the oral sospension that she gave me was Calcium with bitamin D but on the box is written 'Bitamin D3', maybe the pharmacist made a mistake... I'll bring it back to her and ask her to give me pills if possible...

The problem with Halimah and Kirki is that they would not sit on the heating pad... They would try to escape and go back to their eggs, they would fly or walk away... What is more, it is written on the instructions of the heating pad that I should not put wet things on it... so I could not place a wet towel on it... If I had a closed box in which I could put the heating pad and the birds it would be great but unfortunately I don't have anything... only two small cages in the bathroom, where the birds are now and the huge one in my bedroom... Shall I put the heating pad at the base of Halima and Kirki's cage? However, it will switch off by itself in 3 hours while I'm sleeping, so it will also be useless... Perhaps I could do that during the day, in this way I can switch it on again when it turns off, but at night what can I do...? If I put a hot water bottle next to them, they will be scared and they will move away from it... so it wouldn't work either...

The good thing is that they are lying next to each other in their nest so they are keeping each other warm... Let's hope they will be ok like that until the morning... As for the soil I don't know if it contains fertiliser... I have never checked the ingredients... I'll have a look the next time I go to the supermarket... Thank you for telling me all these useful and important things that I didn't know... I remember once, many months ago, I gave my birds some seeds (in Italian they are called 'avena' -I don't know what is their English name...) that were actually toxic for them (but I didn't know it at that time) and they vomited immediately...! After that, I have been very careful... I will never give them avocado if it so dangerous for them!! As for peanuts, aren't they too salty for them? Thank you for all your good suggestions! I'll follow your advice!

Irene...it's vitamin D3 and that's good.


You would give them raw, uncooked, unsalted peanuts.

Irene wrote:

The problem with Halimah and Kirki is that they would not sit on the heating pad... They would try to escape and go back to their eggs, they would fly or walk away... What is more, it is written on the instructions of the heating pad that I should not put wet things on it... so I could not place a wet towel on it...

I agree with those instructions, Irene.
One of the problems I see with putting a damp towel on a heating pad is that the bird would be sitting directly on a damp surface, which I don't think would be a good idea. JMO

The bathroom is a good place to have them for indirect humidity.

AZWhitefeather wrote:

One of the problems I see with putting a damp towel on a heating pad is that the bird would be sitting directly on a damp surface, which I don't think would be a good idea. JMO

As a rule, it wouldn't be good for the birds to sit on a warm, damp surface, but in cases of egg binding I have seen it recommended as the warm moisture softens the cloacal membranes and helps the bird pass the egg without incident.


Irene, 'avena' corresponds to 'oats', right? It's not toxic to pigeons, but the shells are sharp and can scratch their throats and make them vomit. If the shells are removed, they can be given to pigeons as a supplement, but they should never constitute more than 5% of their diet, because of the high calorie content.

As for Colecalciferolo, I had a look and you're right, it's just Vitamin D3:



It's a good addition if they're eating grit, but if not, you'll still need a source of calcium too.

AZWhitefeather wrote:

Irene wrote:

The problem with Halimah and Kirki is that they would not sit on the heating pad... They would try to escape and go back to their eggs, they would fly or walk away... What is more, it is written on the instructions of the heating pad that I should not put wet things on it... so I could not place a wet towel on it...

I agree with those instructions, Irene.
One of the problems I see with putting a damp towel on a heating pad is that the bird would be sitting directly on a damp surface, which I don't think would be a good idea. JMO

The bathroom is a good place to have them for indirect humidity.

Because my birds can't go outside...I struggle with this issue all the time.
When birds are having trouble laying, they need the humidity underneath the vent area...direct humidity not indirect.. A damp...NOT WET ..towel...dries out from the heating pad in a relatively short amount of time and needs to be replaced. It's not a good idea to put them on top of a damp towel without the heat as well.

Irene...this is a definition of damp...

damp (damp)

noun

a slight wetness; moisture

Putting them in a bathroom isn't going to give them enough moisture where they need it. The heating pad and damp towel is a good idea. Some hold them in a warm bath. But the warmth and humidity needs to be applied to the vent area to do any good.

Irene, if you didn't give them access to plant pot soil, they might eat pigeon grit. You can buy it with calcium added to it, and they really should have it. I don't know where you get the soil from, but there could be other things in it that they shouldn't be eating.

Hi my wonderful friends!

Today there was a religious feast in Italy and the pharmacy was closed so I couldn't buy the calcium pills... I'll go again in the morning (now it is night)! I gave Halimah, Kirki and Anemoni a long warm bath in the sink of the bathroom. I hold them in the water for at least 5 minutes each... Fortunately they didn't resist much... Then l let them go back to their nests... They were wet all day long, however, they didn't lay any eggs... There are still 3 eggs in the nest of Halimah and Kirki, 1 egg in the nest of Arapis and Stachtoboota and no eggs at all in the nest of Anemoni (who is lying there pretending to incubate eggs...). I'm still wondering if the egg in the nest of Arapis and Stachtoboota was actually laid by Kirki or Halimah (in this case both birds are safe!) but Arapis and Stachtoboota stay close to the egg so it is probably theirs (Would they care for the egg if it was not actually theirs?) Anemoni's case is the worst! Some days ago she laid two thin broken eggs that fell apart immediately. Then she mated again and now she is sitting in her nest but there are no eggs in it... It could be that her new eggs broke inside her... However she seems fine! Halimah and Kirki also seemed alright today... They were very quiet but they seemed peaceful, they kissed each other, they ate some seeds and they didn't seem to have any pain or disturbance... But I'm still very worried for them... Tomorrow I'll check again in the nest of Arapis and Stachtoboota to see if there is a new egg. If there is one, it means that the other one was theirs as well. If there isn't, it means that the egg in their nest is the 4rth egg of Halimah and Kirki! Let's hope it is indeed!!

As for the heating pad I didn't use it today because I gave the hens a bath and they were so wet that if I put them on the heating pad they might have an electric shock! So I let them stay in their nests, on the hay...

As for the black soil for plants I buy it from the supermarket... I have finished the last sack so I can't check the ingredients but when I go to the supermarket again I'll have a look. If it contains chemicals or other unnatural things I will never buy it again!

As for 'avena' it is not really 'oats'... It's something else, it is similar to lentils but it is more orange... I have seen it for the first time in Italy so I don't know what it is really... As for oats, my birds hate them, they don't even want to try them... The poor pigeons that live outside are so hungry that they eat even the chewygums(!) that people spit but my birds are very spoiled and very selective about their food... In fact, I feel very sorry for the pigeons outside, I try to feed them secretly but I'm really scared of the neighbours who hate both me and them... Once they had called the police to arrest me (because here it is illegal to feed pigeons...) and I had to say all sorts of lies to them to protect myself and the innocent birds... I had even hidden my pigeons under a blanket!! I thank God that they believed me and they went away... I'm still very scared of the evil people here but I can't ignore the poor pigeons that come to my window everyday looking at me with hope... I wish I had the freedom to help them all! Here in Italy people are so cruel... In Greece where I come from, most people love pigeons and feed them, but here they treat them like cockcroaches...!! Italy is the worst place for pigeons to live...

Anyway, I'll update you about Halimah, Kirki and Anemoni soon! A big hug!

Charis, the bathroom where Halimah and Kirki have their nest is so hot like a sauna because it is very small and it has a big radiatior! I keep the radiator on all the time for them and I keep the door of the bathroom closed. It is so hot that when I go in I start sweating! It is really like a sauna! So I don't think the birds were cold yesterday... I'm sorry the warm bath didn't work though...

This morning I went to the pharmacy again. They gave me Calcium 600mg (with bitamin D) tablets! Is that alright? How many mg should I give to my hens?

As for the heating pad, its cover is just a very thin pillow case... The pad contains sad which can absorb water very easily... This is why I was afraid to put the wet birds on it... What is more, its wire is too short and the socket is out of the bathroom, so if I put the heating pad inside the cage of Halimah, I'll have to move the cage closer to the door, on the toilet, and the birds won't like that at all because they are not used to that position... I must buy an extension wire... I went this morning to a shop but the wires I saw had a plug that didn't match with my socket... I have to go to another shop outside the city... Aah, everything is so complicated...!

It was easy to deal with Comis and Selini because they are very calm and they stay where I put them, but the adult birds would not sit on the heating pad unless I put it in their cage and they didn't have another choice... I definetely need a wire extension...

At night I sleep so heavily that I can't wake up even if somebody throws me a bomb!! I remember once the fire alarm started ringing at 4am and I was still sleeping when the firemen came!! But if you think that the heating pad is so important for the birds, I'll try to get up to turn it on when it turns off by itself... Maybe for the sake of my birds I can do it, let's hope!!

I didn't know that fertilizers could have such terrible effects on birds... I'm really sorry for what happened to the poor Robins and the song birds in the US... As for my plants, I don't let my pigeons eat them any more since I read that they could be toxic for them... I have actually replaced them with fake ones to be sure! If you think that the soil is also dangerous, I'll throw it away too! But if I remember well, on the bag of my soil it was written that it was organic... I'll check again at the supermarket...

Irene

Irene...organic soil can still contain ingredients that should not be eaten.

Again...this is critical......if a bird is having an egg laying problem heat directly underneath the bird's bottom is what is needed. The heating pad should never be any hotter than the lowest setting.
I always put a towel over the heating pad and in this situation a towel on top of that which is barely damp to provide the moisture.
I want you and your birds to be well and happy but I don't know what else I can tell you to do other than what I have.

The pills you bought are really a high dose. The ones I have are 250 mg calcium and 125 IU vitamin D. It won;t be easy but you will need to break the pill into 50mg pieces. Give a piece in the morning and one at night for 3 days. After 3 days, give one piece a day for 2 more days.
Every time they reject eggs, repeat the treatment. Don't give them more except oyster shell in a dish and always available. Too much calcium is just as dangerous as not enough and so it's important to find the balance.

Any egg shells will do: chicken eggs shells, etc.
I have had a feral pigeon for years living indoors and she has always layed perfect eggs. And I only feed her grains (wheat, etc), chicken egg shells, and water. She also has dish with sand and little tiny stones - to help digestion. She is very healthy. I found that there is no need for any "vitamins", etc, if pigeon has healthy natural diet.
All this talk about "heat under bottom" or moisture under the bird sound suspicios. Egg laying is internal problem that has nothing to do with "heat under the bird" or moisture under the bird. Something is wrong with bird's diet or she is ill - that's the problem of egg laying.

Matilda wrote:

Irene...organic soil can still contain ingredients that should not be eaten.

Again...this is critical......if a bird is having an egg laying problem heat directly underneath the bird's bottom is what is needed. The heating pad should never be any hotter than the lowest setting.
I always put a towel over the heating pad and in this situation a towel on top of that which is barely damp to provide the moisture.
I want you and your birds to be well and happy but I don't know what else I can tell you to do other than what I have.

The pills you bought are really a high dose. The ones I have are 250 mg calcium and 125 IU vitamin D. It won;t be easy but you will need to break the pill into 50mg pieces. Give a piece in the morning and one at night for 3 days. After 3 days, give one piece a day for 2 more days.
Every time they reject eggs, repeat the treatment. Don't give them more except oyster shell in a dish and always available. Too much calcium is just as dangerous as not enough and so it's important to find the balance.

Hi, here I am again!

I found an old empty bag of soil in the cupboard and I checked the ingredients! Fortunately it does not contain fertilisers! It contains only: 'blond baltic peat, black peat of a marsh, fertile soil consisting of decaying organic substances of the bark of trees and branches'. Are these dangerous for pigeons? If yes, I'll remove the pots from their cage immediately!

I have something good to tell you! I have not found a second egg in the nest of Arapis and Stachtoboota, so the single egg in their nest is probably the fourth egg of Halima and Kirki, which means that the two birds have laid all their eggs and they are safe!! But if I am wrong, it means that Arapis and Stachtoboota are also in trouble (if they have laid only one egg...)

Charis, I'll try to cut the pill in 50mg pieces as you told me, thank you very much for your instructions!

As for the heating pad, I still haven't found an extension wire so I can't put it in their cage... Even if I place the cage nearer the socket, on top of the toilet, there will be a problem because the cage is so big that it won't stand on the toilet, it will fall down! Only the cage of Meli and Anemoni (which is a little smaller) can stand on the toilet but if I put it there, me and my boyfriend wont' be able to use the bathroom... The bathroom is so small that I cannot even place the cage on the floor! Now I have it on top of the washing mashine and this is the only place where it fits! In the other room, the bedroom-kitchen (the only room that my appartment has) is my cat, so I can't put the cage there because the cat will attack the birds! In fact every morning, when I put my birds in the enormous cage that I have built in the main room, I put the cat on a leash and I tie it on the bed so that it can't reach the birds... In the evening, when I put the birds in their smaller cages in the bathroom to sleep, I close the door of the bathroom and I let the cat free in the other room. Now that Halimah and Kirki have made their nest in the smaller cage in the bathroom I let them stay there all the time. But if I have to put the heating pad in their cage and bring it close to a socket I will have to take it out of the bathroom into the main room where the cat is and what will I do with the cat? Shall I keep it tied all the time? Aah... I don't know what to do with all these rescued animals...! I wish I had a bigger house and more space!!

I will search in my cupboards to see if I can't find a wire extension (I had one in the past and I don't remember where I have put it...), let's hope I find it! If I find it, I will be able to put the heating pad in the cage of my birds! But then there will be another problem... In whose cage shall I put it? In the cage where Halimah, Kirki, Arapis and Stachtoboota have their nests or in the one where Meli and Anemoni have their own...? Perhaps Anemoni needs it more than the others as she still has both of her eggs stuck inside her... However, if the eggs have broken inside her, is there any hope for her...? Poor birds... what a terrible situation...!!

Pigie, thank you for your suggestions but my pigeons are very spoiled and they eat only the things that they are used to eating, they don't like trying new things... Everytime I try to feed them something new they turn their head away...! Even the oyster shell sand (which I had searched the whole city to find) is not 'good' enough for them...! I try to feed them peas and they spit them out 'disgusted'... They like only their seed mixture, wholemeal bread, black soil and nothing else!! They also like unhealthy dangerous things, like my plants, which I have taken away from them...

Whether the heating pad will work or not I don't know either and I have many doubts, but it's the only thing that I can do for them right now, so I'll try it and let's see if it has any good results...

Love,
Irene

EEK Irene, your place is really crowded! Another reason for not letting any more eggs hatch!
I felt really sorry for your cat being put on a leash while you have the pigeons in the big cage in the room. How is it that that cage would give the cat access to your birds?
I hope you've managed to get an extension lead by now, that would make your life much easier.

About the possibility that Anemoni's egg(s) may have broken inside her, I don't think so, otherwise she would probably not be alive by now. When that happens, it's a real veterinary emergency, as it can cause death very quickly.

What else can I say that hasn't been said? Nothing, I don't think, except: Please listen to Charis and follow her advice! What she doesn't know about pigeons can be written on the back of a postage stamp...

I get tired just trying to follow this thread. You seem to have more problems then 10 people. Hard to know which to deal with first. You would be better off, and your birds would be healthier, if you took away the dirt, and gave them grit. Now buy the seeds that are healthy for them to eat, and give it to them. Feed them what thy need, rather than what they want. If they are hungry, they will eat it. Believe me, they will not let themselves starve to death. Now, if you need for a bird to be on a heating pad, you put it in the cage, and lock the bird in the cage. He doesn't have to like it. When they need medicine, you make them take it. Doesn't matter if they get upset or disturbed. What is important is that they get the medicine. I think you need to take charge and do what they need, and stop worrying about what they like. They are like children and need you to take charge. Don't worry so much about what they want. Do what they need. You will have happier and healthier birds. And I think you would be happier with fewer problems.

pigie wrote:

Any egg shells will do: chicken eggs shells, etc.
I have had a feral pigeon for years living indoors and she has always layed perfect eggs. And I only feed her grains (wheat, etc), chicken egg shells, and water. She also has dish with sand and little tiny stones - to help digestion. She is very healthy. I found that there is no need for any "vitamins", etc, if pigeon has healthy natural diet.
All this talk about "heat under bottom" or moisture under the bird sound suspicios. Egg laying is internal problem that has nothing to do with "heat under the bird" or moisture under the bird. Something is wrong with bird's diet or she is ill - that's the problem of egg laying.

Matilda wrote:

Irene...organic soil can still contain ingredients that should not be eaten.

Again...this is critical......if a bird is having an egg laying problem heat directly underneath the bird's bottom is what is needed. The heating pad should never be any hotter than the lowest setting.
I always put a towel over the heating pad and in this situation a towel on top of that which is barely damp to provide the moisture.
I want you and your birds to be well and happy but I don't know what else I can tell you to do other than what I have.

The pills you bought are really a high dose. The ones I have are 250 mg calcium and 125 IU vitamin D. It won;t be easy but you will need to break the pill into 50mg pieces. Give a piece in the morning and one at night for 3 days. After 3 days, give one piece a day for 2 more days.
Every time they reject eggs, repeat the treatment. Don't give them more except oyster shell in a dish and always available. Too much calcium is just as dangerous as not enough and so it's important to find the balance.

Your're right, Peter...the heat is necessary because there is an underlying problem. The mosit heat makes a huge diiffrence in this situation.

pigie wrote:

Any egg shells will do: chicken eggs shells, etc.
I have had a feral pigeon for years living indoors and she has always layed perfect eggs. And I only feed her grains (wheat, etc), chicken egg shells, and water. She also has dish with sand and little tiny stones - to help digestion. She is very healthy. I found that there is no need for any "vitamins", etc, if pigeon has healthy natural diet.
All this talk about "heat under bottom" or moisture under the bird sound suspicios. Egg laying is internal problem that has nothing to do with "heat under the bird" or moisture under the bird. Something is wrong with bird's diet or she is ill - that's the problem of egg laying.

Hi there, Pigie!

Your feral hen who lives indoors and lays perfect eggs... that would be Golubiatko, right?... Glad to know she's doing well.

You will find the answer to your questions in this thread:
http://www.pigeonangels.com/pigeon-and-dove-illnesses-injuries-their-symptoms-and-treatment-f11/symptoms-of-a-bird-that-is-egg-bound-t1630.htm
It has an article on egg binding written by Linda Pesek DVM, which was quoted in http://pigeonracingpigeons.com/tag/eggbound-symptoms/

This information is particularly relevant:

1) CAUSES: A variety of things may cause egg binding. One of the most common causes of egg binding is an all-seed diet because it is very low in calcium as well as other essential vitamins and minerals. Other causes include obesity, lack of exercise, oversized or mal-formed eggs, excessive egg laying, oviduct infection or damage, heredity and senility are all causes of egg binding.

2) TREATMENT: Egg binding should be considered an emergency. Medical treatment is initiated to stabilize the bird. The bird may be given fluids intravenously or subcutaneously as well as antibiotics, steroids and calcium. It is placed in an incubator at 85-95 degrees F with moistened air.

[quote="pigie"]Any egg shells will do: chicken eggs shells, etc.
I have had a feral pigeon for years living indoors and she has always layed perfect eggs. And I only feed her grains (wheat, etc), chicken egg shells, and water. She also has dish with sand and little tiny stones - to help digestion. She is very healthy. I found that there is no need for any "vitamins", etc, if pigeon has healthy natural diet.
All this talk about "heat under bottom" or moisture under the bird sound suspicios. Egg laying is internal problem that has nothing to do with "heat under the bird" or moisture under the bird. Something is wrong with bird's diet or she is ill - that's the problem of egg laying.



IF you believe this to be so, then you will learn a lot here.