PLEASE HELP!!REARING BABY WOODIE!!

Hi all,

just found this forum after searching for advice on the above. My hubbie found a baby wood pigeon at work on friday (a nest had been made in a stack of pallets which wasnt discovered untill the pallets where moved and the nest totally destroyed )

Being a animal lover hubbie bought him home ( he used to be a zoo keeper and has reared birds before but not woodies) He has been feeding him with a syringe with tube attached into his crop and the bird seems to of been doing well (chirping, flapping wings etc) but this morning he is quite quiet so im trying to found out more info as we are not sure if eggfood is correct for woodpigeons - ive read on some websites that some people feed mashed up peas, digestive biscs in milk, kaytee rearing food etc.

We tried to buy kaytee mix but no shops round here sell it - we could only find budgie eggfood. Hubby is grinding it up and making into thin consistancy. Ive just read that woodpigeons shouldnt have their crop filled as much as other birds either.

We are not sure how old he is - hubbie thinks about 2 weeks. He has yellow downy fur in places but has all the quill thingys on his wings.

Any advice please??? I dont want this little guy to die!!!

We thought about buying some dried mealworms and grinding them into a paste because concerned the eggfood has not enough goodness in it, any thoughts?

Thanks in advance

Forgot to say - im in England

Lissy and hubby,
Many thanks to your husband for rescuing the little woodie.

We don't have wood pigeons here in the United States and from what I understand caring for them as opposed to our common pigeons is a bit different.

What we do have though are several UK members here that will be happy to assist you.

Hang tight . Help will be on the way.

Hi

Cynthia is really our feeding baby woodies person, so I hope she'll be along soon.

I expect you'll know about these things, as your husband is experienced in tube feeding: One thing to check before feeding is that the crop is empty or as near as you can tell, from last feed. If he is retaining food, I think Cynthia will advise on what to give him to help get the crop moving. The food needs to be at right temperature, warm (about 39 c) to the touch. Baby will benefit from being on heat pad or well wrapped hot water bottle.

When I've given pigeons peas and corn, they are frozen ones thawed out in a dish of fresh boild water for a little while, till fairly soft, and fed warm one at a time into the bird's mouth. To be absolutely honest, I am not sure if this one is too young yet to receive these.

Chick crumbs are also nutritious, but do need to be well soaked and put through a blender a couple of times to ensure they are thoroghly liquidized.

Hello and welccome! I am glad that you found us, we have several members that have hand reared baby woodies so you are in good company!

I have never used egg food for hand rearing woodies, but I know someone that did. As has been mentioned before, you need to ensure that the food is given at the right temperature and that the crop is emptying, it should empty completely every 24 hours.

Can you just clarify how much he weighs, how much you are feeding him in each go, how thin the mixture is and what his poops are like?

Kaytee is difficult to find in the UK but you can use Hagen's Tropican Hand Rearing formula. Chick crumbs are also a good hand rearing food, you soak them in hot (not boiling) water for 30 minutes, liquidise and then sieve three times. The mixture becomes thicker as the bird grows older.

Ready Brek, mixed with warm water to a creamy consistency is also good and I have switched to that in preference to kaytee when tube feeding adult birds that have been vomiting, it is gentle on the digestion.

Here are two threads that will interest you as they also are about hand rearing woodies:

Baby wood pigeons

I think that your pigeon must be about the same size as Tweaty in this thread when he was found:

Tweaty

Hi again,

Thank you for the warm welcome!

Good news -'George' ( dont ask!) is alot brighter this afternoon, i think maybe he was not quite warm enough so we've warmed his little nest area up and he is chirping away now! Im not touching him much as he seems imprinted on Steve (other half!) and flaps his wings when he goes to feed him so i dont want to cause him any stress as he isnt the same with me.

Anyway...Cynthia - he is about the same as Tweaty yes, maybe a touch bigger. He weighs 4 ounces. Steve is feeding him 40ml i think and stopping when his crop is full but not tight, there is still some bagginess in it and yes it is empty before he gets fed again. He is grinding the eggfood with pestle and mortar first and watering it down with warm water to a runny consistancy.

I cant find any local shops that sell the hand rearing formula - do you think the eggfood is adequate or should i really try and hunt down the rearing formula or the chick crumbs? Thats the thing we are most concerned about at the moment - has the eggfood got enough vits/minerals in it? Im guessing he is to young for the peas at the moment?

Sorry for all the questions, lol - just want to do the right thing by him!!

Hi - well done on rescuing this poor little chap. You're doing fine.

I think it sounds like it's about 5-7 days old - see my thread (Cynthia's pointed you in the right direction above) where I've got a pic of Tweaty at about that age. He fell out of the nest in heavy winds.

I've bottle fed him right from the start on chick crumbs (available from all good pet shops) the way Cynthia explains on her website (go to www.pigeon-aid.org.uk).

If you make your hand into a fist and put his beak near your thumb and forefinger, does he start to go a bit mad with his beak trying to get it inside your fist between your thumb and forefinger? If so, try him on the bottle method because they will search out the little slit in the plastic on the top just like they are searching out the small hole where your thumb and forefinger wrap around each other in a fist.

Cynthia suggests vet wrap to put on the jar, but I didn't have any of that, so I used a strongish plastic bag (not bin liner or cheapy carrier bag, you need a thicker plastic than this).

I also didn't soak the chick crumbs - but you do have to watch that the dust and small particles don't go up their nostrils. If it does, just get a very soft toothbrush and gently brush from top to bottom of beak so you don't lodge it even further up the nostril. This should remove it. Or make him have a drink and usually a bit of water washes out anything stuck up there.

Keep an eye on his crop. You can tell when it's empty because the breast bone shows up. Well it does on Tweaty!! I tended to feed every 2-3 hours at the start and let him have as much as he wanted.

I made him a nest of loo roll to start with and moved him out of the nest to feed him, then snuggled him up again when he'd had a feed and he tended to know that was the end of feeding time.

Also, don't forget to offer water - they drink fairly easily. I started with the top of the jar I used to feed him. If you pop your finger in the water, his beak will follow. We've now progressed to a cat water bowl.

However, having said all this, I am NO EXPERT on getting the little monkeys to peck! Mine's a month old now and still being bottle fed, although we are making progress with warm peas. When he feels like it, that is. He's definitely turning into a grumpy teenager!

Good luck!
Wendy
x

I'm so glad to hear George is doing well, Lissy.

Many John, Cynthia and Wendy for all you help.

When you get a minute, would it be possible to post a couple pictures of George?
We love pictures!!

It is best to soak the chick crumbs, get them thoroughly hydrated before you put them in the crop.

40mls is a lot, I would say it is too much, it is what I would feed a 28 days old pigeon. You should never feed over 40 ml. How often are you feeding him? Can you let us know how much he weighs.

One problem that can arise from feeding too much at a time is that the crop can strech and form a little flap that doesn't empty, the food trapped in that can go sour.

Cynthia

Hi, and welcome to the Woodie baby appreciation group.

It is slightly diificult to get Kaytee these days from a shop as Pets At Home seemd to have stopped it now. I was speaking to a friend today who gets it from a Parrot suppliers on the internet. Chick crumbs are ok aswell although I've not used them personally.

If baby's only 4 ounzes, I think 40 mls is a bit too much feed though. Kaytee work on 10/12% of their body weight each feed, so I'd only be feeding around 15mls at present.
In saying that, someone may be able to help me on this, I don't know if the feed you are using would be calculated differently, but that volume seems quite high.

You have to be careful as their crops can stretch if overfilled at this age and if this happens it can cause them problems as the food gets stuck in the crop and can turn sour. Once stretched they would have to wear a crop support to allow the skin to shrink back again.

I'd only feed a max of 20mls at the moment, around every 3 to 4 hours, or when the crop is empty to avoid this. You can increase the amount as the baby developes.

Best of luck with this baby and keep us posted.

Janet

Hi CYnthia,

I just noticed you'd clocked the amount aswell. With my calculations being what they are, as I'm the worst at maths, I would say baby is around 100/115 grms. Quite small still.

Janet

Janet, from the description I agree that 15mls would be about right at that age.

I did try soaking the crumbs to bottle feed, but they glued together and he couldn't get his beak into them and open it easily to eat. Maybe I was doing something wrong.

I remember when we first got him, we didn't have anythng to feed him on at all, so I ended up boiling wild bird seed into a mash and giving him that.

He definitely preferred the crumbs

Young George is one lucky little woodie to have found such good friends as you and your husband, Lissie! It's great to know he's progressing well.

Please keep us posted.

oops - my fault lol, He's not having 40 ml hubby says, he is having about 10ml at a time - ive just been and looked at the syringe and the max it fills to is only 15ml.
When you guys say about 15ml you do mean 15ml at a time dont you? not 15ml over the course of the day?

He weighs 4oz.

We cant get him to drink any water though! Is there enough moisture in his feed for now would you say?

Thanks again!

Quote :

I did try soaking the crumbs to bottle feed, but they glued together

They probably needed more water, I usually have to keep topping the water up during the half hour as the chick crumbs absorb it.

The important thing is that you were giving Tweaty plenty of water so the crumbs were soaking up water in his crop as they do with baby chickens, but the food baby pigeons receive from their parents has already been soaked in their crops and they will not have access to water until they have left the nest.

I fed one of the first sick fledgelings I rescued pigeon crumbs that I had just mixed into a thick paste, they hardened in the crop so it felt solid. I lost that baby.

Quote :

oops - my fault lol, He's not having 40 ml hubby says, he is having about 10ml at a time - ive just been and looked at the syringe and the max it fills to is only 15ml.
When you guys say about 15ml you do mean 15ml at a time dont you? not 15ml over the course of the day?

Phew! Yes, we mean per meal , but each pigeon's crop is a different size, so keep doing as you have been doing! However, I don't know enough about egg food to tell whether it is suitable as a hand rearing formula in terms of having all the nutrition that a baby that young would need. Although the two babies that were raised on it looked very strong and healthy when I saw them.

If you weigh the baby daily at the same time you will be able to ensure he is thriving.

Cynthia wrote:

Quote :

oops - my fault lol, He's not having 40 ml hubby says, he is having about 10ml at a time - ive just been and looked at the syringe and the max it fills to is only 15ml.
When you guys say about 15ml you do mean 15ml at a time dont you? not 15ml over the course of the day?

Phew! Yes, we mean per meal , but each pigeon's crop is a different size, so keep doing as you have been doing!

If you weigh the baby daily at the same time you will be able to ensure he is thriving.

That's good news. I think the poor little one would have been toppling over from the weight if it had have been 40mls.

Urgent update!! George has gone downhill today Hubby is at work and im in charge - he is very weak , eyes closing and keeps opening and closing beak as is he is breathing - what can be wrong?! I darent feed him as his crop is full still since this morn - could it be overfull and causing this? Is there any way you can help empty it or do anything?

I dont think he will be here much longer

LIzzy, until I can alert one of the UK members, I would suggest placing George on supplemental heat, e.g., a towel lined heating pad set on low, or place him under a low wattage lamp.

They can exhaust themselves of body heat rapidly. The supplemental heat will help to maintain they body temperature.

Let me go see if I can fetch one of the UK members.

OK, THANK YOU,he is on a wrapped hot water bottle

Do you have a heating pad or can you borrow one?
Does his crop feel hard?

The hot water bottle should work fine. Just make sure it isn't too warm.

I've sent Cynthia and Jamy a pm alerting them of the situation and also posted the link to this thread in your other thread to try and cover all bases.

sweet George. Help should be on the way soon.

I havent got a heating pad - nor do i know of anyone with one, Ive just noticed at the back of his throat i can see his food - if its down his windpipe is there no hope? His crop isnt hard i wouldnt say (but im no expert!) but it is full.

Thank you all for the support...i dont want to let him down

Lissy...could you be seeing yellow lumpy blotches in his throat?