Oops, How Did They Get This Past Me !

Please don't take this the wrong way, but I'm gutted as I've just found two Oops Babies today.

I swore I'd never let this happen and I just can't work out how I missed this round of eggs.
I know they are the best and sweetest little bundles and anyone would be excited but unfortunately I know I'm in for a big broken heart here.

My set-up isn't geared for able bodied pigeons to live permanently. The ones I have are all unreleasable and disabled in some way, so as I know they have to be here for their own sakes, I feel that's ok. Babies are going to be fit and well, so will need to have the space and facilites to fly, at least in an aviary, so at some point I will have to say goodbye.
If I cry when I have to hand over any little Woodies I've hand reared, what state am I going to be in if I have to part with two little souls that I've seen grow up and are part of my 'family'. This is the reason I was determined to avoid this happening.

Anyway, for now I'm going to ooh and aaaah over them like a normal grandmother.

It will be interesting to see how they turn out though as mum is Bandy, a big proud homing Pigeon who had a bad injury to her wing. Dad is Poly, a Roller, (well I was told so), he's blind in one eye, so although he can fly, he does bump into me at times.

I must have missed them for at least two days even though I go in about twice a day.
I did find two broken egg shells on the floor a couple of days back but didn't think much of it as I have four birds that regularly lay even though they aren't mated.
My only other pair are both hens and they lay four eggs each time and sit on them, but I still swap for dummies just in case.
I've always made sure I've swapped Bandy and Poly's eggs as I never wanted to be faced with babies. They usually sit on the eggs for the three weeks and abandon the nest, but set about mating again almost straight away. I remember seeing them abandon the nest for just one day a while ago but I left the dummy eggs there and they were back on it the next day.
Today I found the dummy eggs still in the nest next to the babies. They must have laid another two, but when I checked under them all I could see were the dummies, so I thought it was ok.

I reckon they hatched about two days ago. Bandy must have been very sneaky as I always make a point of putting some greens next to here when she's on the nest as she loves them and gets aggitated when she sees me cutting them up and she can't get to them.
Yesterday I did that as usual and still didn't get any indication there were two babies under her, but she's a big girl and can hide them easily.
I can just hear her telling the babies, ' keep quiet, that lady is coming to give me some greens, shut up until she's gone'.

It was also strange this week as Roly, the other little Roller, who adores Poly, was sitting constantly next to him, almost on the nest each time he was on nest sitting duty. It was almost as if she was helping to conceal them from my sight.
She was just going over to him today and as I moved her to clean up the nest poops, I heard the slightest squeak, oh my gosh, did I get a shock. It was Roly that wing slapped me away, I think she fancies them as hers.

Well, I can't change it now, but I'm not sure how this is going to turn out with the others in there. I quickly checked the 'hen's nest as they had laid this week and four eggs to swap.

Here's the new additions and the proud parents:

https://i.servimg.com/u/f82/14/42/04/83/oops_b10.jpg

https://i.servimg.com/u/f82/14/42/04/83/petal_12.jpg

Ah, they really look proud, don't they!

I know that it will be difficult to part with them, but Burton Wildlife Rescue have a feral flock....

BTW, what has happened to the dove?

Cynthia

I always feel the same when I find an oops baby aware of what it means.

I know you will love them and be a good grandma. I would too.

The Dove is doing well and I've had her/him inside for a few days so I could watch the progress with the eye.
Now she's back outside with the others and seems to managing to fit in. She's nervous if they start flapping about but I can see which poops are hers as they're so small, so she must be eating ok. It's just that she wasn't seeming to feed herself immediately after I stopped tubing her, and being amongst other birds seems to have got her eating for herself again.
The eye looks so much better, only a slight hint of damage in the rim, but I'm sure she has vision. Sometimes she tends to watch me with her good eye more, so that's why I wanted to make sure she could see before thinking about releasing.

I've been so pre-occupied with this other problem this week that I'm afraid I haven't done any more yet about trying to find a release venue or home.
I want to make sure she has the opportunity to find other Collared Doves if she's released as I don't have any here. She's been used to having regular food for a good while now, so as I don't know where she was from originally, I not be happy letting her go just anywhere.
I'll try and see what I can find next week if I get a moment to make some calls to rescue centres.
I'll let you know.

Janet

A couple of pics of her sitting amongst the 'bigguns'. and her eye as it looks now.
https://i.servimg.com/u/f82/14/42/04/83/oops_b11.jpg
https://i.servimg.com/u/f82/14/42/04/83/coller10.jpg

Sorry I forgot to say she needs to grow her tail feathers back aswell to be as good as new!!

Janet

Hi,

I just wondered if anyone can give me an idea roughly how old these babies might be?

Looking at pictures they seem older than I would have thought, unless they kept them hidden for longer than I realised.

Parents are leaving them unattended sometimes but they seem warm and are well fed.

https://i.servimg.com/u/f82/14/42/04/83/oops_b12.jpg

Bandy, the mum's poops are a very mushy green, like mushy peas if that means anything. They're normally ok, is this due to feeding the babies and is it ok? She lays eggs all the time and her poops haven't gone like this before. Is there anything I should give her?

She's absolutely desperate to get the greens when I give their daily quota. She's always liked them but both she and Poly, (dad), were almost pulling them out of my hand today and grabbed every bit, seeing the others off if they wanted some. I've never seen them like this over greens before. I wondered if I should leave them off for a bit in case this was what was making her poops so mushy.

Janet

Janet...they look to be about 7-9 days old to me.

All of my birds love greens too and greens do make the poop green and loose.

Matilda wrote:

Janet...they look to be about 7-9 days old to me.

Good grief, I thought they looked more than 4/5 days which I'd estimated. They really did keep me in the dark then!

I already wake up in a cold sweat at the thought of them fledging. I knew I'd be a blubbering idiot if ever I had oops babies. Someone's going to have to give me a stiff talking to when the time comes for deciding the right thing for these youngsters.

I was much better at coping with my daughter leaving home, ( but then she can come back anytime for a visit).

Janet

I could be wrong, Janet but those Pigeon parents do have pretty good internal time clocks and they do start leaving their babies alone between 8-10 days.

I don't know if this will help, Janet, but here is a picture of Dolly and Dumpling at 7 days old.

Her babies look just a bit older so I think I was pretty close on the age.

I can understand how you feel, the same thing happened to me last summer. I was very sick for a few weeks and missed replacing eggs and found 2 oops babies one day. What a shock is right! They are so adorable but my space is very limited and I was worried about how things would turn out. One wound up pairing with my resident problem child McGee recently which is fantastic. Since then I've been extra careful about checking for eggs and yep they will sometimes lay again in the same nest before giving up on the last eggs. I learned my lesson. Never forget just how good pigeons are at making baby pigeons! They may not like it but double check those nests!

I get so mad at myself when I find an oops baby. Only three this year, all ferals but at least two are hens. My last one was back in March. I check their nests every time without exception.


Those babies are so cute. They look very full.

Matilda wrote:

Her babies look just a bit older so I think I was pretty close on the age.

I think you were right on.

Birdbarn wrote:

I get so mad at myself when I find an oops baby. Only three this year, all ferals but at least two are hens. My last one was back in March. I check their nests every time without exception.


Those babies are so cute. They look very full.

Yes I'm mad at myself, I haven't told anyone at home as I feel a bit irresponsible as I'd always thought I'd got it all under control.
I have to admit though they are so cute, I even got a small wingslap today when I tried to get a closer look while mum and dad were eating.

Looking at Dolly and Dumpling I would say Charis you're on the nail with their age. They are chubby little ones, very well fed.

Another newbie question: Their nest is very poopy, should I attempt to clean it out or just wait until they're out of it?

Janet

I think it would be fine to clean the nest. They can get so damp and cold with all that .

jamy wrote:

Another newbie question: Their nest is very poopy, should I attempt to clean it out or just wait until they're out of it?

Janet

I always cleaned the nest and never left poop in there. Especially not when the temperatures are low around this time. Whenever I realized that the parents were off for seconds I grabbed my chance. The parents would watch me suspiciously but waited to go back until I had finished.
Only once I was slapped by Pete who thought I would take too long to clean. Well I understood!! He looked so angry and was so puffed up that I thought he would jump into my face any minute - so I prefered to retreat

I learned to use hey in the nest which can be cleaned of easily by just grabbing the part which is pooped and replacing it by fresh one (hey not poop)

I'm going to have to give myself a quick lesson in nest building tomorrow, the nest is disgusting.

I had a quick peek today while mum & dad were attacking the greens again and they've made it with twigs and it's solid, (with poop).

I cleaned around them today but I've decided to get an empty nest bowl and make a clean nest first thing so I can just swap them into it when no-one's looking !!

Thanks for the tips.

Janet

Well I certainly didn't pass the nest building test today although I thought it looked good.

I made a new nest up with lovely long grass I pick from the field next door. I get the grass and keep it in the airing cupboard so it dries out fully. They usually love using this along with twigs.

So having made a cosy nest I went down and gave the others their greens to keep them busy, I did a good clean and swapped the babies into their new nest. They didn't seem very impressed at all and the poor little souls just squeaked constantly from then on, calling for their dad. They don't like me very much now.

When Poly went back to them he did a double take and started pulling at the hay to re-arrange it. He eventually gave them a feed but they continued to squeak and seemed very unsettled for most of the afternoon. Still when I looked at the old nest I couldn't have left them in that, it was gross.

How could such sweet little things make so much poop.

Janet

jamy wrote:

Well I certainly didn't pass the nest building test today although I thought it looked good.

I made a new nest up with lovely long grass I pick from the field next door. I get the grass and keep it in the airing cupboard so it dries out fully. They usually love using this along with twigs.

So having made a cosy nest I went down and gave the others their greens to keep them busy, I did a good clean and swapped the babies into their new nest. They didn't seem very impressed at all and the poor little souls just squeaked constantly from then on, calling for their dad. They don't like me very much now.

When Poly went back to them he did a double take and started pulling at the hay to re-arrange it. He eventually gave them a feed but they continued to squeak and seemed very unsettled for most of the afternoon. Still when I looked at the old nest I couldn't have left them in that, it was gross.

How could such sweet little things make so much poop.

Janet

Yes, I agree. These lil things make so much poop. I remember my 2 babies' poops were bigger than their poops now (now they're 5 months old) ! And I was very surprised & impressed that they would not poop within their nest (rounded shirt about 6" space with shredded paper towel). When I rescued them, I was not ready at all so they lived in a 12" x 20" x 12" box for almost 2 months in my bedroom and they poop out of their nest in the box! I was really surprised to see that their nest space was always clean in the morning and all the poops were just around them out of the nest space.

Hi, I wonder if anyone can tell tell me if you think my babies poops are a cause for concern.

Mum and Dad are still feeding them and so far they're not showing any signs of attempting to leave the nest.
The parents poops are still horrendously messy.

They're very mushy and have no form to them at all. I've been giving them pro-biotics and vitamins but it hasn't made any difference to them at all. Is this normal when feeding babies?

The main concern is that I have to clean out the babies box and nest as the area is just soaking wet every day. It maybe the wetness is from the parents poops when they visit the nest, but as they aren't in there other than to feed, I wonder how it gets so wet.
I saw one babie's poop today and it was quite slimey and loose.
Is this to be expected if they're still being fed from the adults?

Thanks

Janet

Baby Pigeon poop is very wet, in my experience and I change the nest everyday once they become a week old. If the poop is really smelly, they could have canker. It's a good idea to treat them for canker once they are wearned.

jamy wrote:

Hi, I wonder if anyone can tell tell me if you think my babies poops are a cause for concern.

Mum and Dad are still feeding them and so far they're not showing any signs of attempting to leave the nest.
The parents poops are still horrendously messy.

They're very mushy and have no form to them at all. I've been giving them pro-biotics and vitamins but it hasn't made any difference to them at all. Is this normal when feeding babies?

* The main concern is that I have to clean out the babies box and nest as the area is just soaking wet every day.

It maybe the wetness is from the parents poops when they visit the nest, but as they aren't in there other than to feed, I wonder how it gets so wet.
I saw one babie's poop today and it was quite slimey and loose.
Is this to be expected if they're still being fed from the adults?

Thanks

Janet

* That doesn't sound normal, Janet. The nest shouldn't be soaking wet.
Any chance of posting a picture of one of the baby's droppings?

Ok, I'll try to get a picture tomorrow.

I put some wood shavings around the nest to try and soak up some of the wetness and they're saturated each day.

As far as the parents go I suppose it's to be expected they're permanently hungry if feeding babies but I have to say I'm amazed at the way they attack the seed tray as soon as I fill it and just eat & eat & eat then don't stop until every scrap of the greens is eaten aswell.
Then it's usually Dad that goes and feeds the babies straight away after.

They eat more like a flock of ferals that haven't seen food for days.
I did wonder if it was the greens making their poops watery and if I should ease off with those to see if things improved. I didn't want to stop giving them though if it was something they needed specifically at present.

Janet

Hi Janet,
It looks like Charis and I have made it a challenge for you with our different views.
Seriously though, it's good to have different points of view. Not every situation is the same.
I just don't recall soaking wet nests when we had babies. And maybe it's really not that abnormal for that to happen.

Please do keep us posted.