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 Our Willy is sick - I don't know what to do?

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AZWhitefeather
Matilda
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Cynthia
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pigeonwriter
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Our Willy is sick - I don't know what to do? Empty
PostSubject: Our Willy is sick - I don't know what to do?   Our Willy is sick - I don't know what to do? Icon_minitimeSun Nov 15, 2009 4:09 am

Our Willy, father of Pina and Peppi is sick. Since 3 days now he does not really eat any more - I have seen this from the poop he left on his roosting place. His poops were a bit soft since last week but not too bad. Now he is hardly doing any poop at all and when he does his urine is yellowish, there is only a little piece of poop like a sausage but still with white stuff around.

Yesterday I realized that his voice was quite muted - completely different to his normal voice. He has become a bit week, does not chase other pijjies away and I have noticed today that he has difficulties to bow forward to pick up seeds - apparently he is in pain and cannot eat therefore. He picked 3-4 sunflower seeds from my hand but no more. He tries to pick up a bit sand or grit but his overall constitution is not good. He still flies to the opposite building but then sits there again. He often closes his eyes, has problems to preen on his back - I suppose this is hurting too. I have not seen him drinking anything - so I am afraid he is getting dehydrated.

I don't know what to do! Today is sunday and I cannot reach the vet of course. I can only catch him when he switches egg sitting with Winnie. I am so in doubt if this does not add too much stress for him but then I could at least check him out for canker.

What shall I look for when I have caught him? I know the typical signs for canker in a pigeon's mouth but on top of that?

I am very worried what is happening here. What should I do?
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pigeonwriter
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PostSubject: Willy seems to have canker!   Our Willy is sick - I don't know what to do? Icon_minitimeSun Nov 15, 2009 6:08 am

Okay - I just caught him while he had changed nest sitting. He was astonishingly quiet. I felt his crop and everywhere else but I could not find any hard spots. Then I checked his mouth and discovered a small yellow nodule in the middle of his mouth behind the tongue.

I gave him one Spartrix and then 2ml of water with vitamins. So he has at least a little bit of fluid. So I think I have to give Winnie, his mate, one Spartrix also?

What else do I need to do now? Waiting until Willy eats by himself again?
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Cynthia

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PostSubject: Re: Our Willy is sick - I don't know what to do?   Our Willy is sick - I don't know what to do? Icon_minitimeSun Nov 15, 2009 6:19 am

Hi Petra,

I think that it is important that you take him inside and keep him warm on a hot water bottle, so that he doesn't lose energey trying to keep his body heat up.

Give him canker medication is you have some, and mix 1/2 pint warm water with 1/2 tablespoon glucose or honey or sugar and 1/2 teaspoon salt. Dip his beak in that while it is still warm to encourage him to drink.

Yellow urates are a symptom on liver problemsbut you have to consider the terrible possibility of PMV in his case..m can you take a video of him so that I can see how he is behaving?

On the optimistic side my Oily Ollie developed very similar symptoms last week including the hard wormlike poops that we associate with PMV and yellow urates. He doesn't have PMV, canker, cocci or worms and only a blood test will show whether his liver is damaged so he has been on Baytril for a couple of days and I think he is showing some inprovement. Giving him a heat lamp and placing his food bowl right next to him got him eating again. He came to me after being ill for a long time from anti climb paint poisoning, so I always worry if he looks under the weather.
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Cynthia

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PostSubject: Re: Our Willy is sick - I don't know what to do?   Our Willy is sick - I don't know what to do? Icon_minitimeSun Nov 15, 2009 6:22 am

Sorry, posted that as you were posting!

Yes, give his mate a spartrix but keep him in for a few days, how many spartrix do you have? I usually continue treatment for 3 to 5 days.

If the birds are sharing water it is best to give them each a single dose of spartrix just in case.

Cynthia
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pigeonwriter
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Our Willy is sick - I don't know what to do? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Our Willy is sick - I don't know what to do?   Our Willy is sick - I don't know what to do? Icon_minitimeSun Nov 15, 2009 6:41 am

Thank you Cynthia for your quick answer. Unfortunately there is no way to keep him in. Tried it but he went totally crazy in his cardbox. I think this costs him more energy than leaving him alone. Also his mate Winnie would go crazy if I take him in.

He is now sitting on the opposite building again. Willy is no bird that I can take inside - he does not even sleep in one of the sheltered nests on the balcony even if it's windy and far below zero. That's the problem.

Will watch how he is doing this afternoon if I can see him. Will try to give him more warm fluid if I can get hold of him again - water with honey?
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plamenh
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PostSubject: Re: Our Willy is sick - I don't know what to do?   Our Willy is sick - I don't know what to do? Icon_minitimeSun Nov 15, 2009 6:48 am

Prepare cage for him or carrier. In this cases when he stops eating, it is a matter of life or death and him being wild makes no difference. Take him in, and supervise his feeding. If need be, you should handfeed him.
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Matilda
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PostSubject: Re: Our Willy is sick - I don't know what to do?   Our Willy is sick - I don't know what to do? Icon_minitimeSun Nov 15, 2009 6:57 am

Petra, I can imagine that being in a cardboard box would make Willy frantic. Perhaps you can invest in a used pet kennel, the kind used to transport a large cat. It would be a good thing to have on hand because as long as you have Pigeons, you will get some sick ones too and with your kind heart you need to be prepared to help them.
With the kennel, you can put a heating pad inside and keep the ill bird warm. You can also clip dishes for food and water to the inside of the door so they won't be knocked over.
Willy may have treatable infection, as well as the canker, that is causing the yellow urates and not PMV at all. So please not go to a PMV prognosis in your mind just yet.
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Cynthia

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PostSubject: Re: Our Willy is sick - I don't know what to do?   Our Willy is sick - I don't know what to do? Icon_minitimeSun Nov 15, 2009 7:07 am

Quote :
So please not go to a PMV prognosis in your mind just yet.

I am sorry, Petra, I did not say this to frighten you

I was not making a "prognosis" but I would like to see his behavour because of what you described. I know that if it is PMV you would also rather know this sooner than later because of the possible consequences.

Unfortunately as you have had PMV on your balcony it is not a possibility that should be ignored.
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Matilda
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PostSubject: Re: Our Willy is sick - I don't know what to do?   Our Willy is sick - I don't know what to do? Icon_minitimeSun Nov 15, 2009 7:14 am

Cynthia wrote:
Quote :
So please not go to a PMV prognosis in your mind just yet.

I am sorry, Petra, I did not say this to frighten you

I was not making a "prognosis" but I would like to see his behavour because of what you described. I know that if it is PMV you would also rather know this sooner than later because of the possible consequences.

Unfortunately as you have had PMV on your balcony it is not a possibility that should be ignored.

She had suspected PMV on her balcony and while it may have been so, it was not confirmed.
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Cynthia

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PostSubject: Re: Our Willy is sick - I don't know what to do?   Our Willy is sick - I don't know what to do? Icon_minitimeSun Nov 15, 2009 7:25 am

Petra , this is probably not PMV either, but I believe that it is best to consider possibilities and eliminate them rather than ignore them. Having seen the consequences of PMV I am perhaps extra wary .
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pigeonwriter
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PostSubject: Re: Our Willy is sick - I don't know what to do?   Our Willy is sick - I don't know what to do? Icon_minitimeSun Nov 15, 2009 7:41 am

Thank you all. I have to wait for him to return first.

If there is no improvement tomorrow morning I will organize a cage to take him in. Today I cannot do anything about it - it is sunday.

At the moment he is still sitting on the opposite building so I cannot get hold of him anyway. I really hope that he comes back at all soon.
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Cynthia

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PostSubject: Re: Our Willy is sick - I don't know what to do?   Our Willy is sick - I don't know what to do? Icon_minitimeSun Nov 15, 2009 7:47 am

The fact that he can fly is good, often the main sign that obe of our aviary pigeons is under the weather is the inability to fly up to the high perches.
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AZWhitefeather
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Our Willy is sick - I don't know what to do? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Our Willy is sick - I don't know what to do?   Our Willy is sick - I don't know what to do? Icon_minitimeSun Nov 15, 2009 7:55 am

Hi Petra, Our Willy is sick - I don't know what to do? 333746
I am so very sorry to hear about Willy.
The yellow nodules in Willy's mouth pretty much confirm canker.

Although he is able to still fly, it sounds like he is very weak.
That coupled with the canker is hindering his eating and can also hinder his balance and flying. I'm quite sure he is dehydrated as well. He definitely needs to be hand fed and hand watered if he isn't drinking on his own. And the only way to be sure of this is to contain and monitor him. Although he may be feisty, it should only be a few days.
In addition to treating Willy, his mate also needs to be treated.

I've read where canker medications need to be rotated. This may be a good time to pick up one of the other medication and treat the birds.

With regard to PMV, from my perspective, it would not be a consideration given your description above.

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Keeping us safe from the predators that share the sky.

If we become ill or injured in any way,
Please lead us to safety where we are welcome to stay.
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pigeonwriter
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PostSubject: Re: Our Willy is sick - I don't know what to do?   Our Willy is sick - I don't know what to do? Icon_minitimeSun Nov 15, 2009 8:24 am

Willy just flew over to our balcony and is now sitting on his roosting place. He picked 4 or 5 sunflower seeds from my hand and 2 little pieces of peanuts. His flight looks secure and his landing was secure too. So I really do not thing he has PMV as he is not showing any other typical signs. He was even cooing at Pete and he has still some energy left to give him a wing slap.

He has one Spartrix and I gave Winnie (his mate) already one too.

I assume that his crop is inflammated through the canker because this seems to be the place of pain.

I continuously monitor him. Hope very much that he stays on the balcony now. I am still thinking about taking him in when it is dark but am wary whether I should really do this.

How much fluid does a pigeon need per day? I gave him 2ml so far after he had the pill.

Thank you all for your concerns and advice.

He is now sitting on the nest again which is sheltererd with double cardbox and he is sitting in a pile of hey right now.
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Cynthia

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PostSubject: Re: Our Willy is sick - I don't know what to do?   Our Willy is sick - I don't know what to do? Icon_minitimeSun Nov 15, 2009 8:39 am

Hi Petra,

Because pigeons are seed eaters they need quite a lot of water. Dr Colin Walker says that the average is 45mls a day, with a range of between 20ml and 60ml. He bases that on the average pigeon being 400 gms.

Cynthia
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pigeonwriter
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PostSubject: Re: Our Willy is sick - I don't know what to do?   Our Willy is sick - I don't know what to do? Icon_minitimeSun Nov 15, 2009 9:05 am

I just observed that Willy went to the drinking pot and drank. At least something!
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AZWhitefeather
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PostSubject: Re: Our Willy is sick - I don't know what to do?   Our Willy is sick - I don't know what to do? Icon_minitimeSun Nov 15, 2009 9:16 am

pigeonwriter wrote:
I just observed that Willy went to the drinking pot and drank. At least something!

Our Willy is sick - I don't know what to do? 142829

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Cindy

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Please watch over us while we fly,
Keeping us safe from the predators that share the sky.

If we become ill or injured in any way,
Please lead us to safety where we are welcome to stay.
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Matilda
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PostSubject: Re: Our Willy is sick - I don't know what to do?   Our Willy is sick - I don't know what to do? Icon_minitimeSun Nov 15, 2009 9:51 am

That's wonderful.
You know, Petra, you may be able to find liquid metronidazole that you would put in their driniking water so you can treat the whole flock for canker. That would make it easier on you.
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PostSubject: Re: Our Willy is sick - I don't know what to do?   Our Willy is sick - I don't know what to do? Icon_minitimeSun Nov 15, 2009 11:20 am

Thank you Charis.
Is it an option to take the metronidazole pills I still have from Teresa and dilute them in water? If yes how much do I take for one liter?
This also does not guarantee that every pij drinks from the water and if most of them - couldn't it be that some get too little and some too much?
Could it cause any damage for Willy because he is getting the Spartrix already?

And what could I do about the bad taste of this stuff - I have read it tastes very bitter - so I assume that the pijjies will be reluctant to drink it?

Sorry for all the questions. Do you feel better today? Circle of Love
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Matilda
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PostSubject: Re: Our Willy is sick - I don't know what to do?   Our Willy is sick - I don't know what to do? Icon_minitimeSun Nov 15, 2009 11:25 am

Petra...the pills don't mix well with water and you cannot be assured the birds are getting a consistant amount of medicine. It tends to stay in granduals that fall to the bottom of the water bowl.
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Matilda
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PostSubject: Re: Our Willy is sick - I don't know what to do?   Our Willy is sick - I don't know what to do? Icon_minitimeSun Nov 15, 2009 11:27 am

This is what I have in mind. Either of the top 2 products will work.

http://www.foyspigeonsupplies.com/catalog/541-1320.html
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PostSubject: Re: Our Willy is sick - I don't know what to do?   Our Willy is sick - I don't know what to do? Icon_minitimeSun Nov 15, 2009 12:12 pm

Charis,
the problem here again is that I don't get this product in Germany. And for metronidazole I need a prescription. I have to think about something that I can tell my vet without getting into big useless discussions again.

What about chevi-col powder from the company Chevita? Does this work? Does anyone know?
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Matilda
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PostSubject: Re: Our Willy is sick - I don't know what to do?   Our Willy is sick - I don't know what to do? Icon_minitimeSun Nov 15, 2009 12:25 pm

Petra...I would try it.
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PostSubject: Re: Our Willy is sick - I don't know what to do?   Our Willy is sick - I don't know what to do? Icon_minitimeSun Nov 15, 2009 12:30 pm

It probably does what it says it will do, but it's hit and miss unless birds are in an enclosed environment and are guaranteed to only drink from the provided water for, I think, five days (also means no untreated bath). Certainly better than nothing, when there's a risk of other birds picking up the parasite in shared food or water.
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Matilda
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Our Willy is sick - I don't know what to do? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Our Willy is sick - I don't know what to do?   Our Willy is sick - I don't know what to do? Icon_minitimeSun Nov 15, 2009 12:35 pm

Very true, John but I suspect most of the Pigeons that eat and feed at Petra's balcony, do so exclusively.
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PostSubject: Re: Our Willy is sick - I don't know what to do?   Our Willy is sick - I don't know what to do? Icon_minitime

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