The PMV Thread with Pina, Willy, Jimi and Winnie

The horror continues but in the meanwhile I have no time any more to be in shock.
While Willy is improving slowly, eating again and drinking I am confronted with a new horror: Pina has PMV.

It started on Tuesday evening. She came home, astonishingly quite clumsy when she tried to land on one of her favourite places on the closet. Later on she seemed to be nervous and started to look at the ceiling a couple of times. At that point I was not very worried yet but I found it strange.
Also her poop had started to become quite squishy since a few days but I thought this normal from time to time. I have seen this with our other pigeons too.
The next morning - thank heaven before we let her out - she really seemed to have difficulties flying and landing. She strangely moved her head and now my suspicion was alert. I packed her in a box and we drove to the vet. I also took some samples of her poop.

At the vet my suspicion was confirmed after I told her about all the symptoms. I was ready to fight for Pina in case the vet suggested to put her down. But she did not. She said that she was going to make several tests on Pina's poop and would send it in for Salmonellosis test.
Pina received an injection for a 24 hr. antibiotics.
She gave me some good advice what to do now - keeping her warm, giving her vitamins etc. And she was quite convinced that Pina could heal again. This at least was the positive side.

Home again my head was swirling. And although I had read so much about PMV already I felt somehow lost - especially as Pina started to really have cramps, moved her head crazily around, standing nearly on her head and so on. I was shocked to see her like this. Reading about PMV and having a little darling pij having the same sickness are two different pairs of shoes.

So I set up a big cardbox with really thick walls - strangely I had one the right size at home already. On the bottom I put several layers of newspaper, on top of that a big plastic bag in case she would spill her drinking pot, then a thick layer of towel and on top several layers of soft kitchen paper. Additionally I put a flowerpot saucer wrapped up in kitchenpaper which additionally functioned not only to rest her head on but also kept the food and water pot from tumbling over. I also gave her a paper roll wrapped in kitchenpaper as another support for her imbalance (learned from you guys!).

In the meanwhile I am adding two hot waterbottles - which I change every 2 hours or so. I have put them in 2 edges of the box beneath all the layers of stuff so that it does not become too hot and also this way Pina has still enough space to escape if it is getting too warm for her.

The first day - Wednesday - she still was able to pick up some seeds at least and she drank a bit by herself. The night was terrible. She had cramps and was behaving like crazy. So I took her out, held her up to my chest - and she calmed down immediately. So I sat in the middle of the night with my little Pina and holding her. She was so in misery. Later I put her back into the box and she seemed calm now. Well - I had not much sleep that night.

In the morning she seemed to be slightly calmer but she could not pick up seeds nor drink water any more by herself. So I gave her some fluid with the syringe. We drove to the vet again. The tests for parasites were negative. A new check on Pina and describing all the symptoms from last night revealed that it was quite clear that she had PMV - I had still hoped that not. But the vet told me that with good care Pina was probably going to be okay again. We discussed what to feed her and giving her increased dosis of vitamins etc.

Back home Pina got some more water with vitamins and I gave her a mush which was a mix of her seeds and additional peanuts and sunflower seeds which I grinded in the coffeegrinder and then added water and vitamins again. She received 2 x 10 ml of this stuff. Later I popped some warm (formerly frozen) peas into her mouth which she swallowed quite nicely but I had to open her beak each time - she did not take them deliberately. She hates crop feeding and that kind of stuff. I would too!

During the night she seemed to be calmer - at least she had no bad cramps. This morning she seemed to feel a bit better. I started her day with checking her weight - 315 gr and then gave her some water with vitamins through the syringe. A little later she received 10 ml of above stuff again. A bit later I tried to feed her some peas again. Same as usual - she did not want to eat deliberately.

In the early afternoon I realized that she was holding her little head quite upright and started to pick at the crushed peanuts in her pot and she actually swallowed them. After eating quite nicely she also drank from the water pot all by herself. I was so releived. This means for me that if she does not lose weight I don't need to force feed her any more. What a relief. We will see the next days. As soon as the weight comes down I have to go back to tube feeding.

Today Pina really seems to feel a bit better. She even escaped from her cardbox by making a big jump and landing safely on the soft carpet. I was astonished - so I immediately put the grill from the oven which I am using as a cage cover back on her cardbox. She also started to preen herself from time to time today. Each time when she started to cramp again I took her out to hold her. This really calmed her down.

Btw - I tried a real cage from the vet - Pina hated it. She immediately began to chew on the bars - so I put her back into her cardbox. She seems to feel much safer there - especially as she can see everything through the "roof". I will make some photos tomorrow. I had not the guts to do this so far but now I think I am ready to cope with the situation. I want to do everything that could make Pina a cheerful little pigeon girl again. I think she's got good premises for this...

PS. I would never have thought to say this one day but currently I am glad that Peppi is gone. I don't dare dare to imagine...

{{{hugs}}} so sorry to hear this
sending healing vibes~~~

It is quite shocking when you see for the first time PMV affected bird. I can only compare it with epilepsy seizures in humans.
Give her chamomile tea for calming and calcium. She needs more fluids now.
Also what I would suggest is to keep grill always on top of the box, as she may get serious injuries if she escapes out and starts trashing around. Closed, semi-dark place keep them calmer and soft smooth walls of the box reduces chances of injury.

I'm so sorry Pina has been ill, Petra, but I'm glad that she seems to be getting through it and getting better rapidly. Be prepared, however, for ups and downs for some time yet -- Sammy's kept me on a rollercoaster for days.

I'm keeping both of you in my thoughts and prayers.

Praying for Pina's full recovery.

I'm so sorry to hear about Pina, Petra.
Sending special 'get well wishes' Pina's way.

Please do keep us updated on how things are coming along.

rattyfied wrote:

{{{hugs}}} so sorry to hear this
sending healing vibes~~~

Thank you so much!!!

Teresa wrote:

I'm so sorry Pina has been ill, Petra, but I'm glad that she seems to be getting through it and getting better rapidly. Be prepared, however, for ups and downs for some time yet -- Sammy's kept me on a rollercoaster for days.

I'm keeping both of you in my thoughts and prayers.

Teresa - I have realized this already. Yesterday is was better - today she having more cramps again. It's so miserable.

Tech wrote:

Praying for Pina's full recovery.

Thank you too so much!

Fancyfeathers wrote:

I'm so sorry to hear about Pina, Petra.
Sending special 'get well wishes' Pina's way.

Please do keep us updated on how things are coming along.

I will Cindy. Thanks a lot for your compassion.

plamenh wrote:

It is quite shocking when you see for the first time PMV affected bird. I can only compare it with epilepsy seizures in humans.
Give her chamomile tea for calming and calcium. She needs more fluids now.
Also what I would suggest is to keep grill always on top of the box, as she may get serious injuries if she escapes out and starts trashing around. Closed, semi-dark place keep them calmer and soft smooth walls of the box reduces chances of injury.

Thank you so much Plamenh. I will give her that. How much fluid do you think she will need during the day? This morning I weighed her again: same as yesterday - 315 gr. This is not much but at least she hasn't lost anything so far.

Would not worry much about her weight if she pretty much maintains that, Petra. Of the last three that I had, one was only 228 gr and one only 240 gr. I hand fed them twice a day for weeks, weighed them three time a week, and considered them doing well once they got to 300 gr and held that. They are both hens and not large in frame, so I was satisfied. Both are fine now - I fully expected MiniPidge to have neuroligical signs for months as she was the worst affected, but now she has a mate, shows little indication of post-infection symptoms and flies easily.

The ideal, I guess, would be to vaccinate the (apparently) healthy birds, but I think that would be difficult. Vaccine doesn't keep once opened, so they would need to be rounded up and done together. I know I would never be able to catch my healthy balcony pigeons. But, finding two within a week with obvious PMV was very unusual. Had they been in a loft, It would or could have affected many in a fairly short time.

Thank you very much John. That's a big relief for me. I hate as much as force feeding her as she hates it.
Today I was a bit worried though as she does not eat as well as she did yesterday. Will continue to monitor her but also I want to give her as much peace as possible.

Oh Petra felt really bad reading about what Pina and you are going through
You are very right, reading about any disease and actually having to see your bird undergo it are very different. You are doing very well in caring for her. Please continue the same. Please have faith, i am sure with all the experienced members here and with love and care, Pina will heal. Please create a calm and positive vibes around her.

I will pray for her recovery and to you

If she drinks alone, then just keep on replenishing her waterdish. If you feed her formula (with syringe) you can mix formula with tea insted of water. Beside formula mix which I give 20 ml twice a day I hydrate bird with 5~10 ml tea additionally (let say lunchtime if I feed them mornings and afternoons). This is in case of severe PMV symptoms when bird cannot eat alone.

plamenh wrote:

If she drinks alone, then just keep on replenishing her waterdish. If you feed her formula (with syringe) you can mix formula with tea insted of water. Beside formula mix which I give 20 ml twice a day I hydrate bird with 5~10 ml tea additionally (let say lunchtime if I feed them mornings and afternoons). This is in case of severe PMV symptoms when bird cannot eat alone.

Thank you so much Plamenh - this is a good formula I can work with.

priya wrote:

Oh Petra felt really bad reading about what Pina and you are going through
You are very right, reading about any disease and actually having to see your bird undergo it are very different. You are doing very well in caring for her. Please continue the same. Please have faith, i am sure with all the experienced members here and with love and care, Pina will heal. Please create a calm and positive vibes around her.

I will pray for her recovery and to you

You are very kind, priya. I think I have cried so many tears in the last few weeks that this is it now. No more...

I am playing soft music for Pina the whole day - she likes it very much and seems to calm her down.

pigeonwriter wrote:

I think I have cried so many tears in the last few weeks that this is it now. No more...

Yes, this is the time to be brave though i can totally understand how difficult it would be for you but you need to reassure Pina that she is going to be fine. We are all there to reassure you.

pigeonwriter wrote:

I am playing soft music for Pina the whole day - she likes it very much and seems to calm her down.

That's lovely and a good idea to keep her calm. Brave Pina, I somehow feel she will come out of this ordeal. Will have both of you in my prayers.

Here are the photos how I have housed Pina at the moment - she seems to like her new home.







Poor little darling needs to get well again. I hope soon. It takes as long as it takes...

Petra..............You are doing such a wonderful job caring for Pina. I wish both of you the best and hope for a speedy recovery for this precious little one.

Louise

Quite a cozy place she has. Just one suggestion Petra, I would remove saucer pan that is in front of her food and water dish. If food/water is higher she will easier peck and drink. In this state they tend to miss dish if it is too low positioned and beak ends between the legs.

plamenh wrote:

Quite a cozy place she has. Just one suggestion Petra, I would remove saucer pan that is in front of her food and water dish. If food/water is higher she will easier peck and drink. In this state they tend to miss dish if it is too low positioned and beak ends between the legs.

Plamenh - it looks only in the photo as if the dishes are too low but in fact they are not. I have watched her and it seems to be quite convenient for her to stand on the saucer - have something to grab to and eat and drink from the dishes which are actually much higher than it looks. Thank you very much for your advice though. Maybe I could make it even a bit higher.

Please remove the water at night at night Petra, as she may seizure and drown in it. Sadly, I didn't even think of that and leaned the hard way. I couldn't ingaine a bird could drown in such a small amount of water.

Thank you Charis - I am doing that each night before I go to bed! I remember you talking about this in another thread.

The poor baby. Sending healing prayers her way. It'll take a while but with your help she'll pull through this.

What a comfortable set-up! When you mentioned a cardboard box I did not imagine it was a penthouse suite! And music, too!
Fantastic job, Petra! She's got every chance of making a full recovery with your loving care.

NiteOwl wrote:

The poor baby. Sending healing prayers her way. It'll take a while but with your help she'll pull through this.

Thank you so much NiteOwl. Pina can take all the time she needs.

Teresa wrote:

What a comfortable set-up! When you mentioned a cardboard box I did not imagine it was a penthouse suite! And music, too!
Fantastic job, Petra! She's got every chance of making a full recovery with your loving care.

Teresa - thank you for making me smile again. I really needed that.
Pina had a very bad day yesterday. She had seizures every hour or so - so each time I took her out and hold her and tried to calm her down. It was awful.

Today seems to be a better day. I gave her de-frosted peas in the morning - slowly I get a little practise in doing that. Open her beak - plop - open her beak - plop - open her beak - plop. After 10 pieces she got a little pause where I stroked her and then open her beak - plop and in went 40 pieces after a while.
Before I was not sure whether you really have to force her to open her mouth and I was so desperate about giving her additional pain. Thanks to the link to the youtube video in another thread I know now that I did the right thing! And now this works perfectly - better than tube feeding which she really hates. She swallowed all the peas nicely.

Lunchtime I did the same with peanut pieces - opened her mouth and popped in little pieces of nuts which I had put in warm water before. After that I gave her 10 ml of camomille tea with vitamins. And tonight I am going to feed her de-frosted peas again. In between she tries to pick seeds on her own but she does not get enough food herself so I have to do it.

Also her poops are becoming a bit better now. It is not that terrible dark green colour and mushy consistence any more but a lighter olive green and the poop is a bit more formed. So it seems that this at least is improving. Also she does not urinate so much as before.

Yesterday - when she was in that bad condition I put her in a very flat soft basket with kitchenpaper and carried her around with me and even put her on the bed while we were watching TV. This apparently seemed to help her to stop the seizures. I wonder if anyone has had similar experiences with PMV birds? Not to leave them alone but rather trying to distract them with anything from talking to them and music and some kind of action?

pigeonwriter wrote:

Yesterday - when she was in that bad condition I put her in a very flat soft basket with kitchenpaper and carried her around with me and even put her on the bed while we were watching TV. This apparently seemed to help her to stop the seizures.

I wonder if anyone has had similar experiences with PMV birds?

Not to leave them alone but rather trying to distract them with anything from talking to them and music and some kind of action?

Hi Petra,
It's interesting that having Pina around noise and activity helped to reduce the seizures.
From what I have read, a PMV bird's symptoms usually become worse when around activity.
The usual recommendation is to keep them in a quite area.

Our Pij was put on a course of Prednisone (which is a steroid) to help reduce his seizures. For him it was a godsend.
Here's his story: Our beloved Pij