The PMV Thread with Pina, Willy, Jimi and Winnie

Fancyfeathers wrote:

Hi Petra,
It's interesting that having Pina around noise and activity helped to reduce the seizures.
From what I have read, a PMV bird's symptoms usually become worse when around activity.
The usual recommendation is to keep them in a quite area.

Our Pij was put on a course of Prednisone (which is a steroid) to help reduce his seizures. For him it was a godsend.
Here's his story: Our beloved Pij

Hi Cindy, that is exactly what I have read too. But when I took her out of her box and put her into the open basket which I took with me the seizures stopped immediately. Strange - isn't it?
Your story of Pij made me cry again - it is so bittersweet...

pigeonwriter wrote:

Fancyfeathers wrote:

Hi Petra,
It's interesting that having Pina around noise and activity helped to reduce the seizures.
From what I have read, a PMV bird's symptoms usually become worse when around activity.
The usual recommendation is to keep them in a quite area.

Hi Cindy, that is exactly what I have read too. But when I took her out of her box and put her into the open basket which I took with me the seizures stopped immediately.

Strange - isn't it?

Yes, it is. Was Pina tested specifically for PMV?

No - I asked the vet about it and she said that this test is quite complex. She said it was easier to do it the other way round - excluding, narrowing down.

Petrta...this may be a stretch but...do your paints have lead in them and if so, is there any way Pina could have taken a drink or eaten from a dish or bowl that had lead paint? Another possibility would be plant pot bottoms on the balcony that may contain lead.

Charis - I have absolutely nothing in my appartment nor on the balcony that contains lead. This is hard to have in Germany anyway because of the environment laws.
Thank you for your concerns.

I was so sad to read this post, I'm sorry Petra, it is a shock when you see them like this.

Thankfully there are so many here that have had experience of seeing their birds through this wicked illness, and I hope you will glean strength from hearing their recovery stories.

You love Pina so muc and that is the best healing she can get. To be safe and warm with you caring for her, she'll come through this I know.

Janet

pigeonwriter wrote:

Charis - I have absolutely nothing in my appartment nor on the balcony that contains lead. This is hard to have in Germany anyway because of the environment laws.
Thank you for your concerns.

The reason I asked is because my starling began to have seizures which continued to worsen. At the time, I wasn't aware of lead poisioning and certainly not with an antique dish that had once been used to feed a little child. When Deb came to euthanise Baby that day, she looked at the dish and said...oh I know what the problem is and so we bought a test kit at the hardware store. Sure enough, the dish contained lead which was causing the seizures. It doesn't take much to make a creature so small, very ill.
That got me to thinking and I became suspicious of a hand painted toy chest I had purchased from an importer. The chest had come from Bali and Caleb was using it for his toys. After testing, it was postive for lead too.
In the recent years, the US government has made it the law to disclose to renters or home owners, that lead may be present in their homes if the home/apartment was built prior to 1979. Huge amounts of lead has been found even in the soil surrounding many homes because they have been scraped and repainted through the years.
While this may not apply in Pina's case, I thought it best to explain why I asked the question for the benifit of others that will read this thread in the future.

One other thought/suggestion...peanuts nortorious for containing mold and until Pina is well, I would hold off on feeding them to her. Rather, defrost corn to feed in addition to the peas.

It is my heart's desire that Pina recover quickly, this nightmare is over and you find some comfort. You have all of us sending you and Pina lots of love and positive thoughts.

Charis -
I have removed all things which could contain toxins a long time ago because I am suffering from various allergies. So I think there is really nothing in my appartment.
Of course I cannot say what Pina has done while she was flying around but I don't think that she is poisoned.

The seizures today were far not as bad as yesterday. Regarding the peanuts I have thought about this too.This applies to any nut btw. That's why I never buy open or from pet stores. I only buy premium quality to eat myself and fresh harvest - that's what Pina gets. Any nut that might look suspicious is binned.

Strange thing is that I honestly have not managed to get frozen corn. It's ridiculous but here in Germany you can get the corncobs in total or the tinned. People apparently don't buy frozen corn. I could take the cobs though if I find some.

I have also made something different today: I took the regular pigeon food, grinded it in the coffee grinder (removed the coffee bits of course before), added some sunflower hearts and peanuts and then mixed it with a little water, made little balls as big as peanuts and fed them to Pina as a different dish. This worked very well and replaces tube feeding which she hates.

I am going to start a Bach flower remedy treatment tomorrow. Birds should be very susceptible to these.

jamy wrote:

I was so sad to read this post, I'm sorry Petra, it is a shock when you see them like this.

Thankfully there are so many here that have had experience of seeing their birds through this wicked illness, and I hope you will glean strength from hearing their recovery stories.

You love Pina so muc and that is the best healing she can get. To be safe and warm with you caring for her, she'll come through this I know.

Janet

Janet - yes - it helps a lot to read all about what you guys have been through with your own beloved birds but I have hoped that I will never get into the same situation. It is hard enough when you read about all those suffering creatures but experienceing it myself was quite a shock and I hardly understand how I could miss to see it in the past. But this is probably a hard learning process - one day your eyes are opened and you truly see all the misery...

The sunflower/peanut balls should be easy to feed to her. That's a very good idea.

pigeonwriter wrote:

Janet - yes - it helps a lot to read all about what you guys have been through with your own beloved birds but I have hoped that I will never get into the same situation. It is hard enough when you read about all those suffering creatures but experienceing it myself was quite a shock and I hardly understand how I could miss to see it in the past. But this is probably a hard learning process - one day your eyes are opened and you truly see all the misery...

I know that I will never get pigeons out of my system now. A simple thing like going shopping last week lead me to end up trying to catch a bad string injury all afternoon instead of shopping. I felt so down for days after I missed catching it. Couldn't get it out of my mind. I'm going back this week to find it again. The positive thing I keep telling myself is that I can help it if I catch it, before walking past would have been all I would have done without giving it a second thought.
Thank goodness you are aware and do now have the knowledge to be able to make a difference. At least some bird's suffering can be averted by every new person who becomes aware of their plight.

Imagine how it's going to feel the day Pina stands tall again and looks you in the eye, and you'll have been the one that made it possible.

Janet

Petra, good to hear that Pina is eating well. You really are taking care of her so much. Prayers that she recovers soon and you both are out of this nightmare. How is she doing today?

How are you both doing today?

Charis - this was another awful day and the nightmare continues. I so much hoped that there is no escalation any more but there is.
Pina had one seizure after another today. Most of the time I was carrying her around, wrapped in a towel. But that's another story...

What is worse is that Willy is very sick again. After he did so well in the last few days yesterday it started again that he was just sitting on the balcony floor, puffed up, not doing much, not eating. So it was easy to catch him yesterday and I checked his mouth again - no canker visible, but I gave him another Spartrix and let him go because he fought so much. At least he stayed on the balcony tonight so I had the chance to check on him. This morning I saw that he still was very miserable so I caught him again, put him inside in another box and we drove to the vet again.

The vet said he probably has an acute enteritis. I described the symptoms:
poop starting to become very soft, turning from light olive green to some yellowish puddles without nearly any poop, then after he had begun to eat again turning into really peagreen colour but urinates are there again so his kidney seems to work.
Please don't frighten me further with any suggestions what he might have. I am already totally standing beside myself. Currently I am only a nervewrack.

The vet gave him an antibiotics injection - with amoxycillin, some vitamin injection and something to eat in the crop - I think it was some baby nourishment. Don't ask me further, I just could not ask any further details right now.

On Wednesday we will be going back to the vet. She said something about de-worming him - maybe I have then my brain together again and can ask details.
At the moment I am totally overwhelmed and can hardly think for myself.

At least Willy is easy to handle at the moment. He has a warm waterbottle in his cardbox, something to eat if he wants to and something to drink. Most of the time he is very quiet and seems to be content to have his peace. I really hope that he feels better tomorrow. I have put him in our bedroom. Pina is in the livingroom. It is becoming quite a challenge where to put the birds as we don't have much space in the small appartment. But we will manage somehow.

The seizures of Pina have stopped for now (evening). I have fed her this evening with those homemade pellets again and warm peas. She got camomille tea in her crop with vitamins and each time with Bach flower remedies. So far she has kept her weight.
I am not sure whether she is getting enough fluid though. Altogether I gave her 4 x 5 ml tea.
I don't dare to give more because I had the feeling that her crop becomes too full. That is the dilemma.

I gave her fluid each time after feeding - should I rather make a pause after feeding and rather give her the fluid later? But I also don't want to bother her too often because of her seizures.

Petra...I can remeber times where I was paralyzed over sick Pigeons. One time was quite a few years ago when I had 18 critical all at the same time. I was also managing a real estate office and had to leave my house early to go there and also drop Caleb at school. I started getting up earlier and earlier to get everything done and all the birds tube fed and medicated. I would also come home at the noon hour just to to check on everyone and feed the ones that needed to be fed, again. I started sleeping less and less. Finally, I wasn't sleeping at all. I got very ill myself and there was no one to step into my shoes and take care of the birds. Really, I do understand. Any suggestions I have made have been to help.
Truely...my heart is aching for you and your lovely, amazing flock that I have grown to love.

Hi Petra,
Sorry to hear that Willy is sick again. Keep him warm and give him vitamins. Make sure he eats enough. In his condition, rice water (from cooking rice) and toasted bread crumbs will help.
First and foremost you need to calm and look after yourself. Your birds need your care and your positive energy too.

I'm so sorry you're going through all this, Petra!
Please believe that between you and the vet, you've got Pina's and Willy's illnesses under control! Please don't worry yourself sick, even though seeing your beloved pets sick is very worrying. You're doing an excellent job, and beyond that there's nothing to do but comfort them with your presence and the sound of your voice -- but for that you need to look after yourself too. They need you to be on top form, so take heart, take a deep breath, allow yourself to believe that things are going to get better.

I'll be thinking of you and of them.

Please look after yourself too I know seeing all this is very frustrating and depressing but only if you are strong, can you look after them. You really are doing a great job...please have faith, both Pina and Willy will recover. Having you all in my prayers.

Thank you all for your wonderful supporting words. I don't know what I would have done without all your help and mental support.

Just on a short note:
after Pina had a real terrible day yesterday with one seizure after another there was a better day today, less seizures and not as heavy as yesterday. Also her poop improved dramatically - for the first time she made some healthy looking poop!!!
Btw - checking her weight this morning again she did not lose a single gram. Even not after yesterday. So I take this as a very good sign?

Today she was fed with 60 peas! in the morning, 20 homemade pellets and 20 peas for lunch and 15 homemade pellets and 20 peas in the evening.
Pellets were made from peanuts grinded in the mortar, fine oat flakes and a bit of buttermilk. They are much easier to feed than tube feeding which I hate and which Pina hates.
This evening she nearly opened her little beak by herself in anticipation.
To drink I gave her 2 x 5 ml and 1 x 10 ml chamomille tea with vitamins (the 10 ml was too much because she spit part of it - poor baby - I did not want to terrorize her. But she still does not really drink on her own or eats on her own. So i have to force her which is terrible for me.

Willy is slowly improving too. I got a nice wingslap today and he suddenly managed to put his little white head out of the box - so I have to be careful now. Yesterday he was terribly listless.
While he is still not really feeding himself - he drinks a bit though - I had to feed him today too. He got 20 of those pellets in the late morning and 20 peas. I also tube fed him 5 ml water with vitamins.

Now in the late afternoon I gave him 15 pellets and 15 peas. I cooked rice (for rice pudding) so long until it was a real pulp , mixed it with joghurt and vitamins and water and tube fed him 10 ml of this stuff afterwards. I think this evening his crop was nicely filled. He has lost a lot of weight I think and I need to coddle him up before he can fly free again. But I also don't want to give him too much so that his enteritis gets worse again. I will see how his poop looks like tomorrow...
Tomorrow we are at the vet again.

I am sure if he had not been so well fed before he would have been dead by now while not eating really for more than a week. My poor little Willy - he was "our" first child on the balcony last year!

So - after a very long day - at least I managed to do the laundry between the feeding cycles - I hopefully can relax a little bit tonight...I am really worn out...

Thank you for the update,Petra. I haven't been able to get you and Willy and Pina off my mind. I'm planning on tomorrow being better yet.

That's a great update Petra. I really hope things get better and better from now on and both Pina and Willy recover.

Thanks for your update, Petra.
I'm glad to hear things are better. I'm hoping they will continue in that direction.
Realizing how stressful this can be, you are doing a awesome job.
Bless you all.

Fancyfeathers wrote:

Thanks for your update, Petra.
I'm glad to hear things are better. I'm hoping they will continue in that direction.
Realizing how stressful this can be, you are doing a awesome job.
Bless you all.

You are doing an awesome job. Take care of you too.
I admire you so very much.

When a poop starts improoving, PMV is at the end.