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 squeaker with missing eye

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jimc2000
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PostSubject: Re: squeaker with missing eye   Sat May 22, 2010 2:33 am

Sorry for the delay updating here. I had a couple of people-world crises that I had to deal with.

Anyway, yes, he has canker growths in his mouth, and yes, I've been giving him 1/2 a Meditrich (Metronidazole) tablet roughly 12 hours apart from the baytril. His poops are fairly normal. I've had to cut back the formula feedings to only 8ccs to stop him from vomiting. He is eating at least some seeds, and he is pooping, so he is getting at least some nutrition through him.

This evening, with an extra pair of hands from a helpful friend, I was able to do a more detailed exam of the canker in his mouth. It looks like the growths extend down his throat and right up out of his mouth along his face and over the eye. So our suspected pus plug looks like it's actually canker.

Here are pictures from this morning:






And from this evening:





When we talked on the phone last night, Charis suggested making a paste out of a ground-up Spartrex and applying it directly to what we now know are canker growths. After looking at the pictures, does that still seem like a good idea?
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jimc2000
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PostSubject: Re: squeaker with missing eye   Sat May 22, 2010 6:20 am

Maybe I spoke too soon about his droppings being normal. I fed him 8ccs of formula around 2:00 AM. (Since he'll hold down so little, I've been feeding him every 3 or 4 hours.) It's 5 AM now, and he hasn't pooped. His crop doesn't feel empty either. I moved him over to the heating pad, hoping that warming him up will get his digestion going. He's standing on the heating pad on one foot sleeping now. I'll check him again in 3 or 4 hours. The only other thing I can think of to try is to give him a few ccs of applesauce. Any other suggestions would be welcome.

By the way, I would be grateful for any discussion folks could offer on the tradeoffs between waking him up to feed him and letting him sleep uninterrupted and unstressed.
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AZWhitefeather
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PostSubject: Re: squeaker with missing eye   Sat May 22, 2010 7:23 am

Thanks for the updates, Jim. Smile

That darn canker can really do the damage. Seeing red/mad
Bless you both. Pigeon angel

Hmmm I'm thinking if he hasn't pooped in three hours and there still seems to be seeds in his crop that possibly the canker is obstructing anything from going through.

Are you able to keep him hydrated?

The applesause may help, but what you don't want to do is add more solids to what appears to be a stagnant situation.
This is just a thought. Others will be on to assist you further.

Please keep us posted.

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Matilda
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PostSubject: Re: squeaker with missing eye   Sat May 22, 2010 8:03 am

That has got to be one of the worst canker cases I have ever seen.

Do keep him warm because if he isn't warm enough,being as sick as he is, the crop won't empty. If the crop isn't emptying he is at high risk of developing a bacterial infection and even though you are giving him baytril, the baytril is sitting in the crop with everything else and doing him no good at all. Warmed applesauce , mixed with sopme warm water may help break it up though as well as any obstruction, especially if you gently massage the crop after.

It's been a few hours since you posted and I hope the baby is doing better.
Yes, do make a little paste to put directly but sparingly on the canker that you can see...face mouth...beak. I would use a Q tip to dab it on.
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Jackie\'s Mom
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PostSubject: Re: squeaker with missing eye   Sat May 22, 2010 8:48 am

This is also the worst case of canker I have ever seen as well.

Jim, I would definately use the paste of spartrix applied directly to his eye, face and beak.

I would keep the seeds away from him now as most likely the canker is causing an obstruction. However, it is important to keep him hydrated. Start with the warmed applesauce/water mixture and then give him formula in small amounts, maybe 5cc at a time to prevent any more vomiting.

Bless you both Pigeon angel

Sending healing thoughts and prayers your way Group hug

Louise
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pigeonwriter
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PostSubject: Re: squeaker with missing eye   Sat May 22, 2010 12:03 pm

Jim, this looks absolutely terrifying. Now I fully understand why Charis always insisted on a timely medication. Poor bird - I really hope it will make it through this. It must be full of pain.
Sending healing thoughts your way and my best wishes!

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jimc2000
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PostSubject: Re: squeaker with missing eye   Sat May 22, 2010 12:49 pm

Here's how he looks now:



This is the poop situation roughly 8 hours (overnight) after being fed 8ccs of formula:



Here are closeups of the droppings. Is that blood in two of them?



Does anything shown here change anyone's advice ofered since my last post?
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Teresa
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PostSubject: Re: squeaker with missing eye   Sat May 22, 2010 1:04 pm

The advice you got seems the best to me for his circumstances.
All considered, his poops don't look too bad, and 8cc of food wouldn't produce much more than that, so the warmth, the warm apple sauce plus water and a gentle massage will do the trick. When the crop is empty, he can have a little formula.
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Matilda
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PostSubject: Re: squeaker with missing eye   Sat May 22, 2010 2:07 pm

That does look like blood in the poop unless the underside of the paper has red ink.
From my experience, bloody poop iis usually from worms or Giardia. The metronidazole will take care of the Giaridia.
Don't give any more medicine until the crop is emptying normally.
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jimc2000
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PostSubject: Re: squeaker with missing eye   Sat May 22, 2010 2:54 pm

I gave him the applesauce and water and applied the Spartix paste (which was not as easy as it sounds.) The good (?) news is that several small chunks of the canker in his mouth came off on the Q-tip as I applied the paste. The canker on his face seems to have receded some as well, because I could actually see that he still has his "missing" eye. It has just been so deeply deeply buried in the canker growths that I couldn't see it before. I don't know if he'll be able to see out of it, but he did open it up a bit. He also seems somewhat more alert than he did yesterday.
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Matilda
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PostSubject: Re: squeaker with missing eye   Sat May 22, 2010 3:02 pm

So is the crop emptying now? If so, give him his medicine as we talked about.
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PostSubject: Re: squeaker with missing eye   Sat May 22, 2010 3:39 pm

Other than the questionable blood in the dropping, I agree with Teresa, they really don't look that bad for than amount of food given.
As strange as it may sound, the little guy's face even looks better.

You're doing a great job, Jim. Bless you both!! Pigeon angel

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jimc2000
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PostSubject: Re: squeaker with missing eye   Sat May 22, 2010 4:12 pm

The applesauce and water left his crop fairly quickly. I gave him 1/4 baytril tablet and 8 ccs of formula. I just checked on him, and he was pecking up seeds. Perhaps the most remarkable development though, is that his "missing" eye is now open, and he can at least see movement out of it. I don't think he can see very clearly since he panicked and jumped back when I approached his cage from that side.

Here's a picture. (The white stuff on his face is the Spartrix paste.)

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PostSubject: Re: squeaker with missing eye   Sat May 22, 2010 4:29 pm

I think he's looking wonderful, considering what he's gone through.
You definitely need to be commended, Jim. High 5 Pigeon angel Celebrate

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Cindy

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Matilda
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PostSubject: Re: squeaker with missing eye   Sat May 22, 2010 4:42 pm

That is quite a remarkable transformation, Jim. Looks like a different bird. If the crop doesn't feel full, give him another 12 ccs of applesauce.
Did he get the metronidazole this morning?
It would be really good if we had a weight so we'd know if he is getting the correct amount of metronidazole.
Also you can make a thiner solutionwith the metronidazole and dab it on the lesions with a Qtip.
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Jackie\'s Mom
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PostSubject: Re: squeaker with missing eye   Sat May 22, 2010 5:35 pm

Jim, you are doing an amazing job with him Way To Go

His improvement thus far is remarkable. The swelling seems to be almost completely gone and the fact that the eye is intact is incredible.

I'm so glad his digestive system is now working. He came to you just in the nick of time. I sincerely don't think he had much time left.

Please keep us posted.

Louise
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Matilda
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PostSubject: Re: squeaker with missing eye   Sat May 22, 2010 5:38 pm

I don't think he had much time left either.
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Teresa
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PostSubject: Re: squeaker with missing eye   Sat May 22, 2010 7:41 pm

Way To Go
Jim, thats amazing! The news that the squeaker still has his right eye, that he opened it, and that he's still got (at least some) vision in it, was the closest thing to watching a miracle unfold! Moments like this are worth living for.

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PostSubject: Re: squeaker with missing eye   Sat May 22, 2010 7:47 pm

The little guy is eating on his own some too. cheers
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PostSubject: Re: squeaker with missing eye   Sat May 22, 2010 11:55 pm

Jackie\'s Mom wrote:
Jim, you are doing an amazing job with him Way To Go

His improvement thus far is remarkable. The swelling seems to be almost completely gone and the fact that the eye is intact is incredible.

I'm so glad his digestive system is now working.

He came to you just in the nick of time. I sincerely don't think he had much time left.

Please keep us posted.

Louise

Teresa wrote:
Way To Go
Jim, thats amazing! The news that the squeaker still has his right eye, that he opened it, and that he's still got (at least some) vision in it, was the closest thing to watching a miracle unfold! Moments like this are worth living for.

I agree 100 %. :Yes:
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pigeonwriter
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PostSubject: Re: squeaker with missing eye   Sun May 23, 2010 7:09 am

Unblievable!!!! I am so glad about this development! This is truly wonderful

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PostSubject: Re: squeaker with missing eye   Sun May 23, 2010 9:17 am

awww he is sooo sweet
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jimc2000
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PostSubject: Re: squeaker with missing eye   Sun May 23, 2010 1:42 pm

Quick update: he's doing Ok, but his recovery rate seems to be slowing down. He seems to be able to see better out of his "bad" eye, but it's watering a lot. I gave him a baytril this morning along with about 10ccs of Kaytee Exact formula mixed with about 30% applesauce. I also applied meditrich paste to all the exposed canker growths that I could see on his face and inside his mouth. About 30 minutes later he threw up roughly half of the formula/aplesauce. He was pecking up some seeds right before I medicated and fed him (just after waking up) so I'm hoping that the vomiting is just a reaction to the baytril. I'll feed him some more formula/applesauce mix in a few hours and see how he does.
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Jackie\'s Mom
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PostSubject: Re: squeaker with missing eye   Sun May 23, 2010 1:53 pm

Jim, you're really doing an exceptional job with this baby YOU rock

I think that this was a very advanced stage canker and that there are propably leisons and obstruction further down in his throat. Due to this I would recommend removing all the seeds for the time being. The seeds could be getting caught on those leasions causing another obstruction.

Stick to just the applesauce and Kaytee formula. Also, I would wait about an hour after feeding before administrating the baytril. Give his system a chance to absorb more of the food and then maybe the baytril will not cause him to vomit.

I'm so happy that he is recovering Happy Dance .....slowly but surely Great job

Thank You for the update.


Louise
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Teresa
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PostSubject: Re: squeaker with missing eye   Sun May 23, 2010 1:59 pm

I'm sorry to hear he's vomited some of his food.
Perhaps Charis will be able to tell you if Synulox (Amoxicilin+Clavulanic acid) or Bactrim (Trimetoprim+Sulfametoxazole) might be used instead of the Baytril, as both are gentler on the stomach.

Is he still having canker meds orally? The other possible cause of vomiting that comes to mind is canker in the crop causing a partial obstruction. If that's the case, I would go with Louise's advice and hold the seeds for now.

You've been doing a wonderful job with that little one! Way To Go
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