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 squeaker with missing eye

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jimc2000
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PostSubject: Re: squeaker with missing eye   Thu May 27, 2010 9:30 am

Matilda wrote:
Make sure that he is eatting enough.

This might be a dumb question, but how do I tell?
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Matilda
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PostSubject: Re: squeaker with missing eye   Thu May 27, 2010 9:35 am

The best way to tell is to weigh him every day at the same time.
The other way to tell is to count the droppings. He should have dime size and minimum of 20 a way.
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Tech
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PostSubject: Re: squeaker with missing eye   Thu May 27, 2010 12:09 pm

Jim YOU rock
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jimc2000
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PostSubject: Re: squeaker with missing eye   Fri May 28, 2010 6:44 am

Based on a "poop census" it looks like he is eating enough. He's eating a lot of seeds and cornbread, and picking up corn & peas (though he doesn't actually eat them yet.)

A little more work today cleaned off the rest of the material around his eye and cleaned up his face a little more:



This process takes a little longer than it used to because, endearingly enough, he keeps wanting to "preen" me in return.

Most or all of the canker that you see in this picture has sort of a hard crystalline scab-like texture. I don't think it's "live" canker. He still has quite a bit on the roof of his mouth though that might still be viable, active canker. I can manage to hold his beak open, but it takes two hands, so I'm going to recruit a friend to help tomorrow. Hopefully, I can remove some of the canker in his mouth and get some pictures to help us evaluate the situation in there further.

I hadn't realized until today how young this pigeon really is -- he still too young to fly. He's been "helicoptering" for a few days now, which I took to be a sign of improving health. He made his first sucessful flight today going about three feet from my hand to a nearby box, and his landing skills (or lack thereof) made it pretty clear that he's still very new to this:

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AZWhitefeather
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PostSubject: Re: squeaker with missing eye   Fri May 28, 2010 7:03 am

What an incredible picture, Jim. Way To Go I love it!! I love it/them
Your update is so encouraging. To both of you, bless your hearts and YOU rock LOTS!!

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Cindy

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Matilda
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PostSubject: Re: squeaker with missing eye   Fri May 28, 2010 8:07 am

It just breaks my heart what SHE has been through. Great job on your part. Pigeon angel
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PostSubject: Re: squeaker with missing eye   Fri May 28, 2010 9:03 am

Matilda wrote:
It just breaks my heart what SHE has been through.

Great job on your part. Pigeon angel

One the positive side, she's improving wonderfully. YESS!!

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Cindy

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Tech
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PostSubject: Re: squeaker with missing eye   Fri May 28, 2010 9:56 am

Jim, you're an angel to that little angel
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Teresa
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PostSubject: Re: squeaker with missing eye   Fri May 28, 2010 12:48 pm



You made my day! Happy
And what a fantastic photo! I love it/them
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Jackie\'s Mom
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PostSubject: Re: squeaker with missing eye   Fri May 28, 2010 1:34 pm

Another wonderful update for this little baby. Happy Dance Woo hoo Happy Dance

She must be feeling better to start exercising her wings. YESS!!

Bless you Jim for all that you are doing. Pigeon angel Circle of Love Pigeon angel


Louise
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AZJourney
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PostSubject: Re: squeaker with missing eye   Fri May 28, 2010 5:53 pm

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jimc2000
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PostSubject: Re: squeaker with missing eye   Sat May 29, 2010 1:17 am

I've been calling this pigeon "he" all along, but since Charis has dubbed her a female, I'lm happy to go along with the gender change.

After three days of me offering her a bath bowl, she finally took the plunge today. It was a good start, but she still smelled pretty bad after her bath. She's going to need a few more, I think, before she's ready for her debutant party.

Here's today's update picture, shortly after applying Meditrich solution (the white deposits overlaying the remaining canker residue):



With an extra pair of hands, courtesy of a helpful friend, I was able to get this picture of the inside of her mouth. AS I mentioned in yesterday's update, you can see that there is still alot of material in there associated with the canker, mostly on the roof of the mouth:



Gentle rubbing with a Q-tip dislodged several chunks of this material, but a significant amount remains, shown here right after applying Meditrich solution:



Again, I can't tell if this is "live" canker or "dead" residue. Does anyone know how to tell? (Or if there even really is such a difference?)

If you look at the photojournal I've been keeping (http://pij-n-angels.forumotion.net/pigeon-rescue-suspect-injury-f6/photojournal-showing-recovery-from-severe-canker-t1798.htm) the only way I got the big change from day 5 to day 6 was to use a piece of folded paper towel dipped in warm water to gently rub off many of the dried-up canker lesions on her beak and face. That took about 20 minutes. I don't think our patient is going to cooperate for that long when it come to having her beak held open, and the roof of her mouth rubbed. Besides, if this is like the deposits on her face, they should already be moist and partially dissolved, since this is in her mouth, shouldn't they? Any ideas on how best to proceed here would be most welcome.
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AZWhitefeather
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PostSubject: Re: squeaker with missing eye   Sat May 29, 2010 7:18 am

I am going to re post the link, Jim. The one in your post didn't work. Disappointed
Photo journal of rescued canker pigeon

There is still a lot of canker in her mouth. Very sad
She sure is looking alert though.

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Cindy

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If we become ill or injured in any way,
Please lead us to safety where we are welcome to stay.
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Teresa
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PostSubject: Re: squeaker with missing eye   Sat May 29, 2010 3:09 pm

Poor baby, I had never seen so many canker lesions in a pigeon's mouth before! But for all that, she looks so much better!
I don't know how to tell the difference between 'live' and 'dead' growths. The full course of canker meds will definitely kill it, but in most cases they don't dry up and fall straight away, it takes a little longer.
All the best! Circle of Love
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jimc2000
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PostSubject: Re: squeaker with missing eye   Sun May 30, 2010 5:30 pm

Update: she seems to be continuing to improve overall. She is eating, drinking and, in general showing a lot of energy:



The canker on her face and in her mouth continues to slowly recede:



Unfortunately, she has a crack in her beak that wasn't there yesterday, and a fairly large chunk is a little bit loose:



I'm wondering if the canker is still advancing inside her beak (is that possible?) or if this is residual damage caused by weakening of the beak structure during the main infection. Charis had mentioned that birds can lose their beaks to cnaker -- hopefully that's not going to happen here. Does anyone have any suggestions on what to do about the deteriorating beak situation?





Last edited by jimc2000 on Mon May 31, 2010 5:01 am; edited 3 times in total
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Matilda
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PostSubject: Re: squeaker with missing eye   Sun May 30, 2010 5:41 pm

Jim...I don't think there is any thing you can do about the beak. The possibility of her loosing part of it is very frightening..
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Jackie\'s Mom
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PostSubject: Re: squeaker with missing eye   Sun May 30, 2010 7:53 pm

Jim, She is definately looking better. Her increased energy level is also a good sign.

Unfortunately I don't think there is anything you can do for her beak. The crack in her beak and the piece to the side will propably fall off. This canker is a horrific disease. Thakfully, it looks like the tips of her beak are intact. The tips are so important for her ability to feed herself.

You have done an exceptional job with her Pigeon angel

Thanks for the update and keep us posted.

Louise
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AZJourney
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PostSubject: Re: squeaker with missing eye   Tue Jun 01, 2010 3:20 pm

Crash's beak has never grown back but having said that.... he gets along just like the rest of them. Crashes beak actually turned black when the tissue was dying.. and the beak on the pigeon below that you have isn't looking that way yet.... so possiblly there is hope for it to stay intact.
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jimc2000
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PostSubject: Re: squeaker with missing eye   Tue Jun 01, 2010 4:08 pm

Here's an updated photo and some close-ups of her beak:







A couple of observations: The canker doesn't seem to be diminishing anymore, and it does look like she has some canker growth coming out of her nostril. Also slightly disturbing is the fact that her recovered eye actually seems to be inset in the eye socket and it waters a lot. On a more positive note, she is gaining weight and becoming more active every day. There is no canker odor anymore either, and the canker that is visible is all very hard and crystaline.
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Matilda
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PostSubject: Re: squeaker with missing eye   Tue Jun 01, 2010 6:32 pm

Jim...I really think you should have this one looked at by a vet. She may need spartrix in combination with metronidazole. Certainly, whatever strain she has, seems to be very resistant...not that she doesn't look better...because she sure does.
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PostSubject: Re: squeaker with missing eye   Tue Jun 01, 2010 6:53 pm

The sunken eye doesn't surprise me, Jim, given the severity of the canker. Disappointed

It's probably going to take quite a while for it to be completely gone.
But the fact that sweet little pij is gaining weight, becoming more active and
the odor from the canker is gone is definitely 'positive' news. YESS!!

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Cindy

A Pigeon's Prayer
Please watch over us while we fly,
Keeping us safe from the predators that share the sky.

If we become ill or injured in any way,
Please lead us to safety where we are welcome to stay.
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Jackie\'s Mom
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PostSubject: Re: squeaker with missing eye   Tue Jun 01, 2010 8:10 pm

Jim, You are into day 11 with this bird. You have done an incredible job saving her life and she certainly looks remarkably improved from day one. However, I am inclined to agree with Charis. I believe that her case was so severe and is resistant to the normal course of treatment. She really needs to be seen by a Vet. The very fact that you see a new canker growth coming from her nostril is definately a matter for concern. The Vet will most likely prescribe a combination of drugs to attack the cankers resistance.

I wouldn't worry too much about her eye. You said her vision in that eye seems to be functioning, which is amazing considering what it first looked like. The fact that it is sullen into the sockett is most likely from the external pressure that was exerted from the large growth. The weeping is normal for any eye injury and I think the Vet might prescribe something for that as well.

The fact that she is gaining weight and is alert and active is a very good sign. However, if this canker regains a hold on her all this great improvement could be reversed quite rapidly and place her once again in jeopardy.

I definately would advise you if at all possible to get her to the Vet.

Louise
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jimc2000
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PostSubject: Re: squeaker with missing eye   Wed Jun 02, 2010 10:58 am

It looks like the canker protruding from her nostril is a little bit bigger today. I'll call the Arizona Bird Clinic when they open this morning and see when they can see her. I might not be able to get her in until tomorrow. In the interim, I'd be inclined to give her a spartrex. Opinions?
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Matilda
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PostSubject: Re: squeaker with missing eye   Wed Jun 02, 2010 11:11 am

I would add spartix as per instructions, 12 hours apart from metronidazole.
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Jackie\'s Mom
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PostSubject: Re: squeaker with missing eye   Wed Jun 02, 2010 12:45 pm

Jim..............I would definately go with the Spartrix. I just returned from my Vet with a rescue I am also treating for canker. My Vet says Spartrix is the preferred method of treatment.

I'm so glad you will be getting the baby to a Vet either today or tomorrow

Please keep us posted.

Louise
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