Birth Control for feral Pigeon Flocks

Better than culling, I say.

http://ovocontrol.com/home/

It definitely sounds much better than most other methods, but some facts and figures (or the absence of them) are still worrying.

• A pigeon population decrease of 88% in 28 months looks excessive, and leaves me wondering whether other (less humane) methods are being used alongside Ovocontrol, or whether the product itself is toxic (though they say that pigeons who get a high dosage are perfectly safe).

• I've looked for the composition of Ovocontrol, and it isn't stated, but I saw this in their site:
  
  OvoControl P — Directions for Use
  •Begin any project by READING THE LABEL. OvoControl is an EPA registered pesticide and the label includes all directions and use-restrictions.

I knew I'd done a fair amount of research on pigeon contraceptives before, so I went looking for it. It answers the question of sudden population reduction by Ovocontol-P:

It has been demonstrated that OvoControl P eradicates a pigeon's natural immunity to Coccidiosis, because its active principle, Nicarbazin, is a Cocci medication. PICAS say that in some areas whole flocks died suddenly when hit by an outbreak of Coccidiosis to the extent of constituting a public health hazard.

It would appear that public aviaries are still the best bet.

I agree whole heartedly that city lofts are the best solution to human intolerance toward feral pigeons.
I still think that this is a better solution than poison or shooting though.

Teresa wrote:

It definitely sounds much better than most other methods, but some facts and figures (or the absence of them) are still worrying.

• A pigeon population decrease of 88% in 28 months looks excessive, and leaves me wondering whether other (less humane) methods are being used alongside Ovocontrol, or whether the product itself is toxic (though they say that pigeons who get a high dosage are perfectly safe).

• I've looked for the composition of Ovocontrol, and it isn't stated, but I saw this in their site:
  
  OvoControl P — Directions for Use
  •Begin any project by READING THE LABEL. OvoControl is an EPA registered pesticide and the label includes all directions and use-restrictions.

I think those numbers look excessive as well, Teresa.
If this product is suppose to be a 'birth control' then the population shouldn't be decreasing, rather staying the same, however not increasing.

Well the numbers would decrease some due to all the hawks and falcons especially since many cities have encouraged them. Wonder what will happen to the birds of prey,once all the pigeons are gone.

Matilda wrote:

Well the numbers would decrease some due to all the hawks and falcons especially since many cities have encouraged them.

Wonder what will happen to the birds of prey,once all the pigeons are gone.

Sure, that's just a given. But 88% is a pretty high percentage.

I don't ever see that happening.

Teresa wrote:

• I've looked for the composition of Ovocontrol, and it isn't stated, but I saw this in their site:
  
  OvoControl P — Directions for Use
  •Begin any project by READING THE LABEL. OvoControl is an EPA registered pesticide and the label includes all directions and use-restrictions.

This should be the first clue that something is amiss.
It sounds like a control alright.

Fancyfeathers wrote:

Matilda wrote:

Well the numbers would decrease some due to all the hawks and falcons especially since many cities have encouraged them.

Wonder what will happen to the birds of prey,once all the pigeons are gone.

Sure, that's just a given. But 88% is a pretty high percentage.

I don't ever see that happening.

If they are telling the truth.

Matilda wrote:

Fancyfeathers wrote:

Matilda wrote:

Well the numbers would decrease some due to all the hawks and falcons especially since many cities have encouraged them.

Wonder what will happen to the birds of prey,once all the pigeons are gone.

Sure, that's just a given. But 88% is a pretty high percentage.

I don't ever see that happening.

If they are telling the truth.

True.

PICAS reported that when pigeons are regularly treated with Ovocontrol, an outbreak of coccidiosis can decimate the entire flock, as the med leaves the birds with no natural protection against it. Maybe that's what happened. Or maybe the manufacturers are 'massaging' the figures for marketing purposes.

I wouldn't expect the population to stay the same when they don't reproduce, as they can die of old age, any of the diseases that can affect ferals and predators or losses to traffic. However, other birds would join the flock at the same time, so I would expect a decrease around 30 or 40%.

But having said all that, there's no doubt it's a more humane method of population control than most of the competitors.
I just wish that they would consider the city loft concept instead, because after the initial expenditure it would just keep on working with next to no further expense, and no chemicals being added to the environment.

Teresa wrote:

PICAS reported that when pigeons are regularly treated with Ovocontrol, an outbreak of coccidiosis can decimate the entire flock, as the med leaves the birds with no natural protection against it. Maybe that's what happened. Or maybe the manufacturers are 'massaging' the figures for marketing purposes.

I wouldn't expect the population to stay the same when they don't reproduce, as they can die of old age, any of the diseases that can affect ferals and predators or losses to traffic. However, other birds would join the flock at the same time, so I would expect a decrease around 30 or 40%.

But having said all that, there's no doubt it's a more humane method of population control than most of the competitors.
I just wish that they would consider the city loft concept instead, because after the initial expenditure it would just keep on working with next to no further expense, and no chemicals being added to the environment.

I guess the point I was trying to make was that an 88% loss of a flock due to a birth control product was excessive. Given the way it was reported that's exactly how I interpreted it.

True, some will die for whatever reason. That's a given.
Your 30-40% decrease is much more accurate.

Actually, I don't know how anyone could keep an accurate account of a 'feral' flock.

Fancyfeathers wrote:

Teresa wrote:

PICAS reported that when pigeons are regularly treated with Ovocontrol, an outbreak of coccidiosis can decimate the entire flock, as the med leaves the birds with no natural protection against it. Maybe that's what happened. Or maybe the manufacturers are 'massaging' the figures for marketing purposes.

I wouldn't expect the population to stay the same when they don't reproduce, as they can die of old age, any of the diseases that can affect ferals and predators or losses to traffic. However, other birds would join the flock at the same time, so I would expect a decrease around 30 or 40%.

But having said all that, there's no doubt it's a more humane method of population control than most of the competitors.
I just wish that they would consider the city loft concept instead, because after the initial expenditure it would just keep on working with next to no further expense, and no chemicals being added to the environment.

I guess the point I was trying to make was that an 88% loss of a flock due to a birth control product was excessive. Given the way it was reported that's exactly how I interpreted it.

True, some will die for whatever reason. That's a given.
Your 30-40% decrease is much more accurate.

Actually, I don't know how anyone could keep an accurate account of a 'feral' flock.

Good point...or even if the count was accurate in the first place.
it's difficult for me to even count my guys because they move around so much.

I don't have an answer to whether this is a good product or a bad one. Both sides are biased and so what each says may be the truth, or it may not be the truth.
Still, I think it's a good thing to have this as an alternative to the options to control feral flocks because we all know the options have invoved killing. At least this is a step in the right direction and sometimes it takes baby steps to walk a mile.

Matilda wrote:

Fancyfeathers wrote:

Teresa wrote:

PICAS reported that when pigeons are regularly treated with Ovocontrol, an outbreak of coccidiosis can decimate the entire flock, as the med leaves the birds with no natural protection against it. Maybe that's what happened. Or maybe the manufacturers are 'massaging' the figures for marketing purposes.

I wouldn't expect the population to stay the same when they don't reproduce, as they can die of old age, any of the diseases that can affect ferals and predators or losses to traffic. However, other birds would join the flock at the same time, so I would expect a decrease around 30 or 40%.

But having said all that, there's no doubt it's a more humane method of population control than most of the competitors.
I just wish that they would consider the city loft concept instead, because after the initial expenditure it would just keep on working with next to no further expense, and no chemicals being added to the environment.

I guess the point I was trying to make was that an 88% loss of a flock due to a birth control product was excessive. Given the way it was reported that's exactly how I interpreted it.

True, some will die for whatever reason. That's a given.
Your 30-40% decrease is much more accurate.

Actually, I don't know how anyone could keep an accurate account of a 'feral' flock.

Good point...or even if the count was accurate in the first place.
it's difficult for me to even count my guys because they move around so much.

I don't have an answer to whether this is a good product or a bad one. Both sides are biased and so what each says may be the truth, or it may not be the truth.

Still, I think it's a good thing to have this as an alternative to the options to control feral flocks because we all know the options have invoved killing.

At least this is a step in the right direction and sometimes it takes baby steps to walk a mile.

You bet.

I sent a link to theis thread to our member MightHeart as she had expressed an interest in learing about birth control for pigeons. This is the reply, which she suggested I share with you all.

Thank you, Kim.

I went to the thread you sent me and asked some questions of Innolytics, LLC and this was the response. You can pass this info on since it's right from the source. Please note that they were very professional in the response and also make no "Sales Pitch".
Kim
MightyHeart

(my question)
Now i am hearing that the ovocontrol renders their immune systems defenseless against cocci etc....is that true? These are feral birds but i love them and do what i can to ensure their good health. i don't want a bunch of sick birds if one gets sick...could you give me more info.



(the response)
Kim,
Nicarbazin (Nicarb) has been on the market for chicken use for more than 50 years. Based on the literature, OvoControl has no effect on the immune system or anything else in pigeons – other than the hatchability of eggs.

Nicarbazin in chickens is used to prevent coccidiosis, an enteric disease. There are many different strains of eimeria protozoa that can cause coccidiosis. Broiler chickens are especially prone to highly pathogenic strains, primarily tenella species, that can interfere with enteric health and often results in death. Each species, including man and other mammals, is subject to different strains of the protozoa – some pathogenic and others not. While nicarbazin prevents pathogenic strains in chickens, there is no evidence that it offers similar protection in anything else. On the contrary, the product has been tested in a wide range of production animals and has been found to have no utility.

Birds pass coccidia to each other mostly through their feces. In the case of pigeons, young birds are exposed to coccidia in the nest, from the parents. By the time they fledge, they should have already developed adequate immunity against this parasite. If adult birds do not have immunity or their immune system is otherwise compromised, they will likely perish from coccidiosis. That said, nicarbazin plays no role in the development of immunity since the growing birds are not fed OvoControl – only the adults.

If anything, young birds could conceivably receive some regurgitated “pigeon milk” that could contain traces of nicarbazin. In this case, however, it is very unlikely to have any effect on the health or immunity of the pigeons. If anything, it could have the potential to improve the enteric health of the young pigeon by reducing the coccidial stress, although there is no data to support this hypothesis.

Better than culling, I say. - Charis.

So don't cull, i say. - Al.

I'm not sure what your positions on population control are, but it looks like you are all for it. But what's the purpose?

If, like Myriam, you imagine you're helping pigeons, explain. But i say that, if people are poisoning pigeons, try to convince them to stop. Don't help them by getting rid of pigeons by another method.

I know no one who's for getting rid of (some or many) pigeons likes to discuss this, but to have integrity, you have to give real reasons, not like: 'But if there are fewer pigeons, people will like them better. ' That's the same as killing coyotes to get ranchers to stop poisoning them.

There's no excuse for the rationalizations pro control people give when it's easy to teach people about pigeons being safe and it's cheap and easy to keep them off of buildings. That's what you should be doing. Maybe this group, which i've been a member of but have not posted to til today, does have a heart and a mind.

I don't excuse myself for being angry. Pigeons are under attack by people everywhere and i see the people who claim to be fighting for pigeons actually fighting against them.

Pigeon People, my group, is the only one that's against population control, as far as i've seen.

The other people don't have to give reasons, only excuses, because agreeing, they can get away with working for pigeon enemies.

I'm challenging everyone here who wants to get rid of pigeons to speak up. Let's argue.

Al

Pigeon wrote:

Better than culling, I say. - Charis.

So don't cull, i say. - Al.

OK...I say don't cull.
They say...I don't care what you say. I like kiling living things. It's fun and they don't matter anyway.

I say...stop the pigeon shoots.
They say...go soak your head...you are nothing...we don't care what you say.

Pigeon wrote:

I'm not sure what your positions on population control are, but it looks like you are all for it. But what's the purpose?

If, like Myriam, you imagine you're helping pigeons, explain. But i say that, if people are poisoning pigeons, try to convince them to stop. Don't help them by getting rid of pigeons by another method.

I know no one who's for getting rid of (some or many) pigeons likes to discuss this, but to have integrity, you have to give real reasons, not like: 'But if there are fewer pigeons, people will like them better. ' That's the same as killing coyotes to get ranchers to stop poisoning them.

There's no excuse for the rationalizations pro control people give when it's easy to teach people about pigeons being safe and it's cheap and easy to keep them off of buildings. That's what you should be doing. Maybe this group, which i've been a member of but have not posted to til today, does have a heart and a mind.

I don't excuse myself for being angry. Pigeons are under attack by people everywhere and i see the people who claim to be fighting for pigeons actually fighting against them.

Pigeon People, my group, is the only one that's against population control, as far as i've seen.

The other people don't have to give reasons, only excuses, because agreeing, they can get away with working for pigeon enemies.

I'm challenging everyone here who wants to get rid of pigeons to speak up. Let's argue.

Al

We are all angry, Al.

Pigeon wrote:

If, like Myriam, you imagine you're helping pigeons, explain. But i say that, if people are poisoning pigeons, try to convince them to stop. Don't help them by getting rid of pigeons by another method.

Al

And if they won't stop? Sometimes you need to give people more options than just "stop". You have to accept there will be some people who do not want to have pigeons around no matter what just like some people don't want feral cats around. My mother lives in an apartment complex. It had a feral cat problem for many years, so bad that it was put in everyone's lease that they could be evicted if they fed the cats. My mother was threatened with eviction several times. There was a nasty groundskeeper who trapped a number of cats at one point and brought them to a shelter and had them euthanised. Then a couple of years ago, my mother contacted a rescue group. The wonderful volunteers there started trapping the cats. Some were relocated to a managed feral colony, others were sterilized and returned to the complex. This resulted in a smaller population of cats that the people who don't like the cats have been able to live with. Population control is sometimes a good thing.

I agree with you Jen. Most will remember my story about the 200 feral cats, 1/2 block down the street from me, that I trapped, over the course of a year, and had altered. Neighbors were extremely unkind to them and wanted them all killed.
Two hundred cats came from 2 not that long before. They were not being fed and they were starving...dead cats laying around. It was heart breaking and it was so needless.
At least it didn't turn into 2000 cats.

Matilda wrote:

I agree with you Jen. Most will remember my story about the 200 feral cats, 1/2 block down the street from me, that I trapped, over the course of a year, and had altered. Neighbors were extremely unkind to them and wanted them all killed.
Two hundred cats came from 2 not that long before. They were not being fed and they were starving...dead cats laying around. It was heart breaking and it was so needless.

At least it didn't turn into 2000 cats.

And that could have happened very easily.

You know Cindy...it really could have.

Pigeon wrote:

I'm not sure what your positions on population control are, but it looks like you are all for it. But what's the purpose?

The positions of those members who posted in this thread are clearly stated, and as they only cover two pages, they are well worth reading.
The alternative to finding a SAFE way to stop the pigeons from breeding in very large numbers is total non-interference, leaving it up to nature to balance their numbers, which is to say,
- Not feeding pigeons
- Not providing pigeons with water
- Not campaigning to ensure dogs are kept on a leash in parks
- Not picking up the fallen nestlings
- Not treating sick or injured pigeons.
I don't know what your position is on that, but I would find that intolerable!

Quote :

If, like Myriam, you imagine you're helping pigeons, explain. But i say that, if people are poisoning pigeons, try to convince them to stop. Don't help them by getting rid of pigeons by another method.
I know no one who's for getting rid of (some or many) pigeons likes to discuss this, but to have integrity, you have to give real reasons, not like: 'But if there are fewer pigeons, people will like them better. ' That's the same as killing coyotes to get ranchers to stop poisoning them.

No, it isn't. Nobody here is in favour of killing pigeons to stop people poisoning them.

Quote :

There's no excuse for the rationalizations pro control people give when it's easy to teach people about pigeons being safe and it's cheap and easy to keep them off of buildings. That's what you should be doing. Maybe this group, which i've been a member of but have not posted to til today, does have a heart and a mind.

Now that's something I'd like to hear more about -- would you be willing to identify those methods which you describe as cheap and easy? -- because the evidence I've seen so far suggests that's neither cheap nor easy. I've seen horrendous injuries caused by nets and spikes, by glue disguised as some euphemism. Birds get trapped under 'building protections'. And those who don't care and don't want to spend money in humane methods will eventually phone the pest control companies. How is this better?

Quote :

I don't excuse myself for being angry. Pigeons are under attack by people everywhere and i see the people who claim to be fighting for pigeons actually fighting against them.

How does destroying a few newly-laid eggs constitute fighting against pigeons?

Quote :

Pigeon People, my group, is the only one that's against population control, as far as i've seen.
The other people don't have to give reasons, only excuses, because agreeing, they can get away with working for pigeon enemies.

I don't know Pigeon People, so I can't comment for now. But I do know WE are not on the side of pigeon enemies.

Quote :

I'm challenging everyone here who wants to get rid of pigeons to speak up. Let's argue.

Al

What do you mean by 'getting rid of pigeons'? Do you mean 'culling' (in which case you won't get anyone arguing against you here) or 'limiting reproduction'? In this instance, different people will have different points of view. Reading them and commenting on specifics, posting in such a way as to make your position clear and inviting dialogue, would be far more productive.