The PMV Thread with Pina, Willy, Jimi and Winnie

You wouldn't belived the games I play to fool my little Romey. I can't replace the eggs when she is on the eggs because she is...ON TO ME BIG TIME...always abandons the fake eggs. Sammy, Romey's mate, is easier to fool and so I make the switch when he is on the nest. I have to be very careful that Romey isn't watching and is involved with a bath or eating because if she notices me messing with the nest while Sammy is on the eggs...she will abandon the nest.

I can't begin to tell you how crazy this makes me.

Hahaha - this is a thing! I would like to know who on earth could ever say that these birds are stupid. I wished they could talk to us via translation machinery as in an sf story. I think most people would be shocked

I really enjoyed reading your update, Petra.
Thank you.

The initial egg sitting varies with my guys. Sometimes they will sit immediately and sometimes they won't.
However, after the second egg is laid it's down to business. Pij'ette, especially, hardly leaves her nest, ever.

Wonderful update and photos, Petra!
I couldn't stop laughing with Willy's antics! What a little devil!
You're so right about how clever they can be, and about how they remember stuff from weeks, even months before!

Teresa!!!! The funny episodes of the whole ordeal make up every tear and nerve that it cost me. It also tells me that these poor birds apparently are not as unhappy as one might think because they are not free at the moment.

Pina made her first big jump today. After she bumped her foot yesterday and was limping everything was okay again today. So she took all her courage, jumped out of her box this morning all herself and then climbed up the cushion besides my little coffe table, climbed on the box on top of that table and looked down, checking, looking again, thinking, taking measure and then suddenly took all her courage and simply jumped down and landed...quite safely. Better than our little former crash pilot Willy who regularly landed on his head or on his wing :eek: . Height was approx. 1 m. Not bad - isn't it?

This means to me that she is getting more confident and might possibly fly soon again too. She is training her balance and running around a lot, curious to look into all corners and tries to find new hiding places. What on earth shall I do when I have 3 flying pijjies now in our appartment. No need for dusting any more - the birdies will do this - as if I am not busy enough crawling on my knees over the carpets the whole day to remove their little green presents ..... :Rolling eyes:

I'm glad to hear Pina is doing better, Petra.

They do keep us busy, that's for sure.

Hi friends,
although I am busy like devil I can do my pijjie work a lot more relaxed as there is no emergency at the moment. Winnie is still quite sick and I am sure now that she has PMV as well. It was simply too much for her. The weather this winter was an immense stress for all the animals outside.
First she "lost" Willy, her beloved mate, to PMV sickness - so they were separated when I hospitalized Willy, then she became very ill and lost her second mate Bubi. She shows exactly the same symptoms as Willy, heavy head tremors, losing balance easily, circling, bad poop, not being able to eat, extensive urinating, weakness, losing weight. But although this all sounds terrible she was not in the same bad condition when I finally could take Willy in. He was near to death I think. Winnie is astonishingly eating very well - she did not vomit once since I have her in (since 2 weeks) and she already shows signs of improvement.

Today she sang for the first time, she is regularly preening and helicoptering in her box and she has gained a little weight. So these are all good signs I think.

Willy - he is truly a clown and doing so much better. He flies as if he had not been sick ever, has nothing but nonsense in his little head and tries to nerve everybody. He knows that Winnie is here as well - he has already greeted her - and I think he is glad that she is here now too. At least half the time when he is running free (and not making sex with Pina :eek: ) he sits on the cover of Winnie's box and either pecks at the plastic like crazy - especially when she has one of her seizures - or he is preening or pooping on her head . Naughty. The strange thing is when Willy starts to peck on the cover Winnie often stops her circling. It seems as if Willy tries to stop her from behaving crazy. First I thought it is aggression because she is sick but not so I am sure now. He wants her to get out of the box.

Willy does not show any more symptoms- even not in stress conditions. And he has started to peck seeds again. I haven't seen him actually eating them yet besides pieces of grit but I think this will work soon. The one or other small piece lands in his mouth. He has often some kind of competition with Pina "who is able to pick up the seed first" - a real game they are both playing. You can often see this with very young pijjies when they learn to eat.

Pina - my little sweet sunshine - she can fly again Not on the closet yet to her old place but she is flying. Sometimes landing with a pirouette which probably comes from her twisted head but safe landing. More often she can land elegantly with a straight head. She is still showing stargazing and slight walking backwards from time to time but it quickly stops and becomes more rare. She is able to eat again also. Not everything yet but today I have seen her eating a dry pea f.e. So this is coming back also. I am so happy.

Pina had her second batch of eggs 2 weeks after she had the first one. And although she has a little nest in her box neither she nor Willy was interested in them. On the contrary - first thing she did when they were laid was throwing them out of the nest!!! What can I do? Maybe they were not fertilized - I have no idea.

Willy and Pina are already working on the next batch. Oh my . Besides supplying them with enough Calcium and nutritions I am afraid I cannot convince her to sit on the eggs if she does not want to.

Jimi - he was in trouble about 10 days ago - as if I had not enough problems - I discovered signs of canker and immediately put him on Spartrix for 3 days :eek:. Gave Willy and Pina one Spartrix also - just in case. Poops had becoming very loose, awful colour and similar what Alice's and Winnie were showing. All boxes became very wet. Maybe they had caught a little infection too. No wonder in these circumstances. I just do what I can, keep everything as clean as possible, but in an appartment there is no real quarantane possible. Also I cannot keep them closed off the whole day - they are getting crazy then and it is negative for their progress.

Jimi has started to eat also . At least from time to time he manages to eat the one or other seed - so this is coming back also. What a miracle. After such a long time I was slowly despairing but this is another proof that there is always hope. Never give up!

I think the chamomille tea (with a little honey)I gave each pijjie first thing in the morning helped them to get rid of the bacteria - you can imagine that they peed a lot! After an hour or so I fed them all baby cereal (with applesauce) and joghurt - to get their digestion back in shape - so more peeing. Lunch and supper consisted of defrosted peas. This I did for the last few days. Today I have stopped the tea and they get the baby cereal first thing in the morning (with all the vitamins etc.) and then twice peas.

Alice has started to eat seeds also. In the meanwhile she can fly quite good again but is far not enough to release her. But she is on a good way also. I am so happy about this.

As addition to my update from last Saturday here are some photos:

Willy balancing on my hats:



Willy and Pina together in the bathtub:









This is Winnie being held after feeding - she is completely in trance:



And this is Willy sitting on Winnie's box under my working table:



Btw - I changed the titel of the thread - not only bad news any more but going towards a happy end I believe....

Great pictures, Petra.
Thanks for sharing them with us.

Thank you Cindy - I am glad you like them!!!

You always take awesome pictures.

It really is starting to sound like a story with a happy ending!
Terrific progress!
Look forward to even more good news!

It does Teresa - and I keep fingers crossed like crazy.

Btw - Jimi started to court Alice (he is nearly twice her size!) - so I let them out of their box together several times a day. You should hear that concert when Jimi is growling and Willy and Pina, who sounds like a tortured poudle, are "singing" in a trio. I have never heard a pigeon making such high pitched noises. Unfortunately my camera does not translate these sounds too well.
Additionally they are all growling on the balcony - especially Pete - and they all seem to exchange news. Very funny sometimes and veeeeeeery noisy. But that arsehole from downstairs does not seem to be here at the moment - so I need not worry too much.

I'd like to hear that, Petra. They all have different voices, don't they? Night Owl and I were just talking about that this morning...she was telling me that she can tell her Pigeons apart, from just hearing their voice.

Same here, lol! They're so distinct I can tell them apart, even from the opposite end of the house!

Matilda wrote:

I'd like to hear that, Petra. They all have different voices, don't they? Night Owl and I were just talking about that this morning...she was telling me that she can tell her Pigeons apart, from just hearing their voice.

I never really thought about it, but I can tell who is cooing without looking.

I am totally at the end of my wits and a bit worried too.

Pina is laying eggs as if she wants to prove something and this is worrying me. The intervals between egg laying are getting shorter - the last being only 13 days. This is not healthy for my little problem "child". I also have the feeling that each time she is in egg laying mode she has a little relapse regarding PMV - circling again, walking backwards, stargazing. I really don't know what to do any more. If I separate her from Willy she is getting crazy - if I let them together she is getting crazy also - egg laying.

The last time when she laid eggs she started to breed and I already thought everthing will be okay. She sat 2 days on the eggs and then she threw them out of the nest again as if she wanted to say - hey what shall I do with this stuff? Away with that crap.

This evening Pina has laid a new egg again. I had moved her nest to a "quieter part" of the room beneath my working table where it is dark and between some boxes which serve as a protection from view - maybe this will help. I leave her on the nest now rather than putting her back into her box. Tomorrow I will see whether Willy is going on duty and switching nest sitting with her. So far he has completely ignored the eggs.

Do you have any advice for me/similar experiences?

pigeonwriter wrote:

I am totally at the end of my wits and a bit worried too.

Pina is laying eggs as if she wants to prove something and this is worrying me. The intervals between egg laying are getting shorter - the last being only 13 days. This is not healthy for my little problem "child". I also have the feeling that each time she is in egg laying mode she has a little relapse regarding PMV - circling again, walking backwards, stargazing. I really don't know what to do any more. If I separate her from Willy she is getting crazy - if I let them together she is getting crazy also - egg laying.

The last time when she laid eggs she started to breed and I already thought everthing will be okay. She sat 2 days on the eggs and then she threw them out of the nest again as if she wanted to say - hey what shall I do with this stuff? Away with that crap.

This evening Pina has laid a new egg again. I had moved her nest to a "quieter part" of the room beneath my working table where it is dark and between some boxes which serve as a protection from view - maybe this will help.

I leave her on the nest now rather than putting her back into her box.
Tomorrow I will see whether Willy is going on duty and switching nest sitting with her. So far he has completely ignored the eggs.

Do you have any advice for me/similar experiences?

I'm not sure, Petra, but if you've been moving Pina off her nest and putting her back in her box, this could be attributing to the problem.

Let us know how it goes leaving her on the nest.

I agree with Cindy, Petra.

Also, she will continue to lay if she can even hear him.

Charis, Cindy - as soon as she was in egg laying mode I did NOT put her back into her box but left her on the nest - 24 hours actually. She was totally free. But still she did not stay on the eggs.

Fancyfeathers wrote:

pigeonwriter wrote:

I am totally at the end of my wits and a bit worried too.

Pina is laying eggs as if she wants to prove something and this is worrying me. The intervals between egg laying are getting shorter - the last being only 13 days. This is not healthy for my little problem "child". I also have the feeling that each time she is in egg laying mode she has a little relapse regarding PMV - circling again, walking backwards, stargazing. I really don't know what to do any more. If I separate her from Willy she is getting crazy - if I let them together she is getting crazy also - egg laying.

The last time when she laid eggs she started to breed and I already thought everthing will be okay. She sat 2 days on the eggs and then she threw them out of the nest again as if she wanted to say - hey what shall I do with this stuff? Away with that crap.

This evening Pina has laid a new egg again. I had moved her nest to a "quieter part" of the room beneath my working table where it is dark and between some boxes which serve as a protection from view - maybe this will help.

I leave her on the nest now rather than putting her back into her box.
Tomorrow I will see whether Willy is going on duty and switching nest sitting with her. So far he has completely ignored the eggs.

Do you have any advice for me/similar experiences?

I'm not sure, Petra, but if you've been moving Pina off her nest and putting her back in her box, this could be attributing to the problem.

Let us know how it goes leaving her on the nest.

pigeonwriter wrote:

Charis, Cindy - as soon as she was in egg laying mode I did NOT put her back into her box but left her on the nest - 24 hours actually. She was totally free. But still she did not stay on the eggs.

I know with my gals, especially Pij'ette, they will move off the nest from time to time until the second egg is laid, which is usually within 48 hours of the first egg being laid. That's not to say everyone's hens will do that, but mine do.

Your decision to leave her on her nest rather than move her to her box is a good one.

My birds don't stay on the nest until the second egg is laid as well and of course after that they take turns, laying, with their mate.
In addition, my birds will abandon the nest if the nest is moved from one place to another.

Yippeeeee!!! It looks like as if this time Pina is going to have a normal breeding cycle. Today she laid her second egg and she is sitting on the eggs. This time even Willy is sitting on the eggs as well from time to time.

The only disadvantage - my sweet Pina has become very snappy - she even runs after me through the whole room and attacks my feet vigorously. My skin already shows little hematoma all over and it really hurts whe she is biting. Apparently she knows exactly where it hurts most. :eek:

Will keep you updated.