We may have found a PMV pigeon

One of our fearful nightmares is back...we found an adult pigeon today which we suspect has PMV

It couldn't fly.
It had very bad head convulsions as in it kept tossing its head backwards every few seconds or so.
It was trying to peck seeds, but was unable to do so.

Dev has managed to catch it and take it home. Due to the above symptoms that we managed to see, we guessed it might be PMV. We will be back once Dev reaches home and can observe more.

We have been following closely many of our friends' PMV cases esp. Petra's and know how difficult it can get For it to get stable can take weeks to months and we should be prepared for a very long haul. Lots of supportive care and rest is what they need.

But the grave problem that we are facing is, as i had mentioned in the earlier threads, Dev stays in a very very small house and he already has 2 healthy pigeons with him. We don't know where we can house this one He has a cardboard box in which he can place it temporarily in a corner of the room but do you think the other 2 pigeons can catch this because of it being airborne and due to the proximity of the birds?

If so, we really don't know what to do Feeling terrible seeing this bird's condition...it looks so bad and in need of help...i don't know what to do
Feeling terrible. The last resort would be to hand it over to a shelter here but we know how they are and they may not even know what treatment to give or how to take care

It has been a terrible week for us. Just today morning one of the kittens that we had got adopted by a family from a shelter here, died. The other one is very serious. They were on drips for 5 continuous days. Chronic vomiting, unable to eat food or water One passed away today morning...the other one is battling for life and now this pigeon

Also want to add that we found some sort of bruise/boil? IDK at one side of its wing joint...pictures will reveal more. Waiting for Dev...

Hi Priya,
I am so very sorry for all the sad events going on with you and Dev.
My sincere condolences on the passing of the little kitten.
I'm thinking the best for the recovery of the other little one.

I agree that you don't want expose Dev's two pigeons, so the best you can do right now is to keep the ill one separated as far from the others as possible. Just make sure they don't fly over to where he is. I know it's easier said than done.

Hydration is vital so if Dev can get some rehydrating fluids into him that would be great.
Since he's unable to eat on his own, he will need to be had fed. Thawed frozen peas and corn are good to give him.

One of the most important things is to keep him in a dark, quite area of the house where there is the least human and/or animal traffic. IF it is PMV stress can enhance the symptoms.

Will be looking forward to photos and an update.

Thanks to you both for taking this most unfortunate little one under your wings.

priya wrote:

Also want to add that we found some sort of bruise/boil?
IDK at one side of its wing joint...pictures will reveal more. Waiting for Dev...

It sounds like he may have Pox.

Hi Cindy,

Thanks for the information. I just examined this bird (looks like its a male bird to me), he seems to have some kind of discomfort with one of his wings. I could see some kind of uneven surface in it's wing joint. I am attaching the snaps here.

[img][/img]

Another wing has something similar to a pox, but I really do not know for sure :(

[img][/img]

I have kept him in a separate box with a warm water bag. He was warmed for 3 hours and then I just hydrated him with glucose + salt (just a pinch of it) mixed water. He drank it and now sitting inside the box. I have kept this box in a corner where there is no much of noise or sound. Hope this guy can be treated on time.

Thanks,
Dev

Also wanted to know if we can start feeding him defrosted peas and corn. Dev has Baytril (liquid form) available with him. Should we start treating him with any medications now?

Those were the wing problems we were talking about...don't know if it is a bruise, boil or some kind of pox He also has head twitchings

I think you can start him on some defrosted peas or corn now. He's been warmed and that the main thing.

As Cindy told you, It is very important that you keep this bird issolated from the other two. The hard board box is OK but rater than keeping him totally in the dark, please put screenon the top of the box so he isn't in total dark. The reason being, if there is no light for him to see at all I won't even attempt to eat or drink and may become stressed, which can cause depression.

This is very important...critical ...just because the bird has neurlogcval symptoms [NS] doesn't mean he has PMV. It means that whatever is making him sick has affected his brain. The cause of NS can be viral, bacterial, fungal, parasitic, poision or toxins. If you jump to the conclusion this is PMV, it's not fair to the bird and it's critical , for the bird's sake that the bird is treated with all honesty.

Not one of us can't tell you, with all honesty what is the exact cause .

This is what I suggest. Take a very fresh poop to a vet and ask them to examine the poop for anything unusual such as worms and an overload of bad bateria. It there is a lot of bacteria, treat the bird with baytril. If there are worms too, you can treat for that too, all the while giving the bird the support needed. One step at a time, please...for the sake of this sweet bird.

Hi Dev,
You know, those spots on his wing kind of looks like these tumors found on a friends feral pij that she rescued.
What do you think?

Matilda wrote:

As Cindy told you, It is very important that you keep this bird issolated from the other two.

The hard board box is OK but rater than keeping him totally in the dark, please put screenon the top of the box so he isn't in total dark. The reason being, if there is no light for him to see at all I won't even attempt to eat or drink and may become stressed, which can cause depression.

I didn't mean for Dev to keep the bird in total darkness, but the bird should be placed in a quite and dark (out of the sunlight) area.

Fancyfeathers wrote:

Matilda wrote:

As Cindy told you, It is very important that you keep this bird issolated from the other two.

The hard board box is OK but rater than keeping him totally in the dark, please put screenon the top of the box so he isn't in total dark. The reason being, if there is no light for him to see at all I won't even attempt to eat or drink and may become stressed, which can cause depression.

I didn't mean for Dev to keep the bird in total darkness, but the bird should be placed in a quite and dark (out of the sunlight) area.

I understood what you meant, Cindy but just this week I suggested another member keep his sick bird in a dark quiet place, only to find out he took my suggestion to heart and was covering the box and leaving the bird in darkness. The bird got worse. Lucky I asked the right question and figured it out. So....to be on the safe side I thohgt I'd qualify.

Thanks Charis and Cindy. I just moved the box to a place that gets some light.

Charis, yes I agree with you. We have not concluded that it has PMV. You may find us rushing but, it is just that we are too scared of loosing this bird like our previous birds. We will not do anything that can harm this poor little bird. We are just posting the symptoms here so that if anyone is aware of those symptoms & the right treatment, they can probably be able to help us. From my opinion, Vets in India are not good with birds. You guys have always helped us better than them. They are good in handling animals but not birds. I will try if any vet here can examine the poops and find out some details.

Cindy, the tumor looks similar except that my bird's is smaller in size. I donno what to do about it but :(

Try to stay calm because you are doing the best you can, which is all you can do. If the bird should pass, you have done everything you can and there should be no regrets.

I understand that your veterinary options for birds are slim but poop is poop and a veterinarian should be able to tell if there is an over growth of bad bateria, worms,coccidia and such. The poop need to be as fresh as possible.

I don't think there is any thing you can do with the tumor but keep an eye on it. It may be pox or a temporary tumor. Time will tell.

Ok thank you.

Matilda wrote:

If the bird should pass, you have done everything you can and there should be no regrets.

Regrets will always be there when there is a loss of life Charis.

Is the bird very thin? Is the keel bone prominent?
Do you know the flock this bird is a member?
What is the environment where the flock lives ...such as are they fed...do they eat in the same place on the gound...do they search many places for food?
Anything else you can think of to add about where the bird came from?

[quote="priya"]

Matilda wrote:

If the bird should pass, you have done everything you can and there should be no regrets.

Regrets will always be there when there is a loss of life Charis.[/quote]

But not for the role we, if we have done all we can do.

spdevanand wrote:

Thanks Charis and Cindy. I just moved the box to a place that gets some light.

Charis, yes I agree with you. We have not concluded that it has PMV.

* You may find us rushing but, it is just that we are too scared of loosing this bird like our previous birds.

We will not do anything that can harm this poor little bird. We are just posting the symptoms here so that if anyone is aware of those symptoms & the right treatment, they can probably be able to help us. From my opinion, Vets in India are not good with birds. You guys have always helped us better than them. They are good in handling animals but not birds. I will try if any vet here can examine the poops and find out some details.

** Cindy, the tumor looks similar except that my bird's is smaller in size. I donno what to do about it but :(

* I don't see that you are rushing things, Dev. You are just posting your findings and absorbing the suggestions given.
You're doing fine.

** IF these are tumors (such like the one's on Kim's bird) there is really nothing for you to do. Her bird had about 5-6 of them. Some were small, some were larger.
In that particular case the tumors eventually fell off the bird and had no further problems.
There is some information posted about them that I will try to locate and post it for you.

It could your bird has something entirely different going on. It's just that they looked familiar and I wanted to point that out.

Oh geesh... You two... have a nack for finding them like the rest of us! poor baby! So glad you came across him.

I haven't anything new to add, except that if it comes to be POX for sure, it will have to run it's course. It took a good 3 weeks with Crash. I kept the tumors clean... and placed some Neosporin, ointment on them, which has a pain relief in it. I also gave Crash Arnica pellets, for the inflamation. Crash's eventually fell off..and the area has healed beautifully! Pigeons have an amazing abitity to heal, so there is always hope. Don't loose hope!

Line the box with a towel, that way the heat isn't lost to the box... a towel will retain the heat better. and then line with paper towels fro the poops. If he can't drink, make sure to use a syringe and drop the water onto the tip of his beak.. he will swollow it.. unless he can drink on his own, then thats even better. I'd keep the salt and sugar in the water for a few days, since Im sure this guys most likely dehydrated and I'd syringe water every 2 hours ... to get him hydrated. Doesn't have to be a lot.

Let us know how he is.

Matilda wrote:

Is the bird very thin? Is the keel bone prominent?
Do you know the flock this bird is a member?
What is the environment where the flock lives ...such as are they fed...do they eat in the same place on the gound...do they search many places for food?
Anything else you can think of to add about where the bird came from?

Charis,

Yeah, the bird is thin (not very thin though). The keel bone is prominent. Priya found this bird from her apartment where she keeps feeding the feral birds. We believe this bird is also a part of those feral who hang around in her apartment. These birds stay in the apartment most of the time for their food. As far as we can take a guess, from a human point of view, there is no other place where the birds may find some food :(

Is the bird doing any better eating/drinking?
Is there a vet near you where you can take a poop and ask that they do a gram stain?

Matilda wrote:

Is the bird doing any better eating/drinking?
Is there a vet near you where you can take a poop and ask that they do a gram stain?

Not much of positive results with it. I hydrated the bird by feeding glucose + salt mixed water and handfed around 10 socked peas. I have keep him warm again. I am going to the vet in another hour time. I will check out the options for examining the poops. There is only one vet who knows a bit about birds and he is out of station today, so I am going to the other vet and ask him about this.

[quote="Matilda"]

priya wrote:

Matilda wrote:

If the bird should pass, you have done everything you can and there should be no regrets.

Regrets will always be there when there is a loss of life Charis.[/quote]

But not for the role we, if we have done all we can do.

Yeah, agreed. What ever may be the reason for these mute animals and birds to leave us with so much of pain, we are not able to digest that, unfortunately. This is something like a demanding child asking it's mother "no matter what, you get me what I like", we pray to the god, the creator, "no matter what, you save this poor creature at any cost. we don't really care about what you have decided, just let it lead it's life"

This may sound different to everyone but this is just our way of looking at life

Thanks Charis, Cindy and Jenn for all the information. I will keep you all updated about how this bird comes up.

Jenn, yes I will keep this bird hydrated and keep hand feeding too. Having tough time keep this away from my other pigeons Mito & Sia. They are too damn curious to know what i am doing with one more new bird now

I believe that by the time many of these creatures cross your path Priya and Dev, they are already very ill. Still, I see you both do everything in your power, out of love and kindness to save them. I love you both so much for that and it hurts me to see you in such pain when you have done everything possible.