The PMV Thread with Pina, Willy, Jimi and Winnie

Thank you Teresa and John.

I have observed quite a significant improvement in their motor function since I let Pina and Willy run around in the appartment since 2 days. But it is not only their motor function that has improved but their emotional condition too. Willy is not depressed any more at all since he has real company with Pina.
I was a bit worried yesterday before when I let Willy out because he became so agitated that he nearly jumped on Pina for joy. Little Pina nearly got a shock when she was so rudely "attacked" and I immediately separted both pijjies again. The next time Willy was a bit more chivalrous towards Pina although he opened the courtship ritual at once again but less violently. So I left them together. Yesterday I made a little video of both so you have something to laugh about:




Willy is still quite clumsy and only in the last minute of the video you would recognize the PMV infection of Pina but altogether it is amazing how my beloved pijjies are adapting to their situation and try to get the best out of it. I think their improvement is amazing regarding the fact that Pina is only a little more than 3 weeks hospitalized (with the first signs of symptoms) and Willy only a bit more than 2 weeks - although he was already 2 weeks sick before I could take him in.

Today both started to groom each other. It was such a sweet sight and very rewarding for me to see them so tender, often sitting side by side on the carpet. Willy was cooing nearly the whole day and Pina answered him from time to time. So both have their voices fully back and they are making healthy poops!!!!

The only worry right now is Jimi, who is still deeply depressed. But I have him in only since one week. There is enough time to recover. I will let him out tomorrow as well - maybe it helps him to get into a better mood. Maybe Pina can comfort him a bit too although he pecked at her the last time. We will try.

Btw - Winnie, who is Willy's mate - has found a new boyfriend: Bubi. He is a cute, dark pigeon guy with a crippled left foot - 2 complete and 2 half toes. He looks healthy and well fed. He does not leave Winnie alone for a second. They are both feeding from my hands - sitting on my arms and Winnie is going to lay eggs again - tonight probably the first one in her and Willy's nest. I am glad that she is staying on the balcony and did not really leave Willy. It was very interesting, that she never allowed Bubi to sleep in their (Willy's and Winnie's) "marital bed". Only Winnie slept in there, in pigeon city, and Bubi had to stay on another place in pigeon city. With a laughing and a crying eye I am watching this because Willy and Winnie always were so in love with each other. But I am glad that Winnie did not go away so there is hope that one day Willy gets his wife back...


Another observation: the other pigeon, Sitting Bull, who had PMV symptoms as well, light stargazing, circling, nervous movements while feeding, bad poop etc. is fully healthy again. Apparently there was a spontaneous healing. He got enough to eat because I fed him each time I saw him and he apparently shook off the illness all by himself. What a relief!!!!

So you see - this can happen as well.

They are sure lucky to have you, Petra.

Ahhh-- the video is cute. and sweet!

I am glad everyone is on the mend. You are doing such a great job...

I always hear people say how lucky the pijies are to have..someone to take care of them... and I 100% agree...but what's even more amazing is how much they take care of us too...and how much they give back to us.... I love that! Give um' all snuggles from me!

Great update Petra I'm so happy to hear that all of them are improving
The video was really sweet You are doing an awesome job in taking care of all of them.

Appreciate the update and video, Petra.
I'm so glad to hear things are improving.

You are doing a wonderful job of caring for these sweet babies.

Thanks for the update, Petra, it's great to know how well they're doing!
The video is lovely, they're so sweet together! At times we can see Pina walking backwards and stargazing, but it's not too bad at all, especially considering she's not been sick long (I wish Sammy was doing that well!) and Willie and Sitting Bull must be very strong to recover so quickly!

Since yesterday Willy has a little relapse although I don't know whether you can say that or whether this is a normal progress of PMV: he started to stargaze yesterday what he did not do at all since his PMV broke out. But his awful head trembling subsided a bit instead. But I do not know what is worse. Also he vomited yesterday a bit and today again. Is it possibly a consequence of his sudden stargazing? Similar to humans, who tend to vomit when they become dizzy or disoriented?
What can I do if possible?

I gave Pina and Willy a warm bath yesterday. Willy enjoyed it tremendously. Pina is still a little too scared - also I have to hold her head all the time so that she does not get any water into her nostrils or worse into her lung. I will try it with Jimi tomorrow. Maybe he can enjoy it.

Unfortunately Jimi is becoming quite aggressive when I leave him together with Willy and Pina. So I always have to separate them when they are out which makes the whole situtation a bit more complicated. But I don't want to leave him in his box the whole day because then his recovery will probably take longer due to his depressions. He has become a bit more active since he can walk around a bit. So this is definitely a proof that he is feeling better outside than inside the box. But what creature wants to stay in a box the whole day anyway :WHAT?:

[quote="pigeonwriter"]Since yesterday Willy has a little relapse although I don't know whether you can say that or whether this is a normal progress of PMV: he started to stargaze yesterday what he did not do at all since his PMV broke out. But his awful head trembling subsided a bit instead. But I do not know what is worse. Also he vomited yesterday a bit and today again. Is it possibly a consequence of his sudden stargazing? Similar to humans, who tend to vomit when they become dizzy or disoriented?
What can I do if possible?quote]

It's hard to say, Petra. Certainly his condition is very stressful for him and stress can bring out other conditions that may have been present in the bird's system but managable. For example, canker, coccidia and worms.
I don't recall, did you give Willy more than 1 day of Spartrix?

The warm bath must have felt like heaven to Pina and Willy.

Jimi must be terribly confused and I hope he starts improving very soon for his sake and yours.

I don't think that Willy feels really stressed at the moment. On the contrary - since he is together with Pina he is cooing all day long. Yesterday even he started to "paw" the carpet - you know the movements they do when they start to build a nest. It made me smile because it looked so funny how he tried to create a little scrape in the carpet. So I decided to give him a small flat basket, put some hey in it and he immediately made it his own. Pina helped him and added to the mess they both created. Now the "nest" is standing beneath my working table for them to play with.
All these little things seem to make Willy and Pina quite happy. In between they groom each other with great passion.

Today they both stood at the deviding acrylic wall that separates them from Jimi and looked at him as if he - Jimi - was in prison and then made themselves comfortable just in front of him. Isn't this mean???

Stress in birds is different from the way humans experience stress. Even a good thing for them may create stress.
Here's a link to an articel expalining stress in birds.

http://www.vetpets.net/animaltimes/stressinbirds.html

Petra, vomiting is bit concerning in Willy. It may be nothing, just temporary crop disorder (sour crop) but it may be also canker nodule. Please give him Spartrix for two days and Chamomile tea instead of water. This won’t do wrong in PMV birds. If they kiss with Pina, maybe you should treat her too.
By the way, mating ritual is big stress for pigeons, not in a negative way, but exitement is taking tool.

Thanks for this interesting link, Charis.
Btw - I don't find the stressors for birds to be so very different from humans to be honest. But as I have the birds more or less 24 hrs in front of me I think I learn a lot more now about the "fine tuning" of their behaviour.

plamenh wrote:

Petra, vomiting is bit concerning in Willy. It may be nothing, just temporary crop disorder (sour crop) but it may be also canker nodule. Please give him Spartrix for two days and Chamomile tea instead of water. This won’t do wrong in PMV birds. If they kiss with Pina, maybe you should treat her too.
By the way, mating ritual is big stress for pigeons, not in a negative way, but exitement is taking tool.

Thank you Plamenh. They are not really mating. They are only sitting side by side now and preening each other. No excitement any more. They are just happy to not be alone any more.

The vomiting of Willy really makes me nervous as well. I gave Willy a Spartrix yesterday late evening and he vomited during the night again, I think even little pieces of the tablet. So I gave him one this morning again and some chamomille tea. I fed him a few hours later and he vomited a little bit again not right after but at least 2 hours later.

I had changed the ingredients of the pellets to make the food more valuable for the birds: I added some grinded sunflower hearts and some pumpkin seeds - the green ones which are for human food. Could it be that he reacts on those? I know that pigeons normally love to eat crushed pumkin seed but who knows what happens when they are sick. Could it be that it is too heavy to digest?
Btw - Willy does not like the green de-frosted peas either so I stopped entirely to feed him those. Unfortunately I cannot get hold of frosted sweetcorn here. So it's getting a bit difficult to find the right food for him and I really do not want to go back to tube feeding if not absolutely necessary. This evening I will try soft pellets made only from peanuts and oatmeal flakes. He never vomited on those.

Sunflower, pumpkin, peanuts they are high on oil seeds and you are right, hard to digest. Wheat and barley are better but to small to handfeed. Does he eats alone at all?
I would try honeyed tea and something lighter all wheat bread maybe just to get him to stop womiting.

Thank you Plamenh for your quick response!
No - he picks at the food but he cannot eat it alone. I will try the old mixture again which he could eat without problems. If that is not working either I will go back to breadcrumbs and oatmeal flakes? And I will give him the tea with honey. Just a few drops I assume on 50 ml?

I am slowly at the end of my wits. Willy vomited again although this time I gave him only a few soft pellets with oatmeal and some grinded peanuts. Afterwards - waiting for half an hour I gave him chamomille tea with a few drops of honey.
After feeding him, i.e. giving him the tea, 5 ml, I let him out but he immediately started circling like crazy and then vomited again. Maybe the vomiting is caused by the seizures? Should I rather put him back into his box?

I really don't know what to do any more and I don't understand why it is getting worse now after it started out so well.

Should I really give him another Spartrix tomorrow?

Do you have Pepto Bismo? It's a pink liquid used for upset stomach in humans. You can give Willy 2 drops to coat his crop before you give him the spartrix. If memory serves me correctly, spartrix should be given on an empty crop.

Close him in the box to have his quiet time. Let him be until morning without feed. Suringe feed him chamomile tea and honey 5 ml in the morning. 10 ml formula mix with tea ahn honey at lunch time an if he does not womit 20 ml at the afternoon. He needs rest obviously and not love afair. I give Spartrix on empty crop approximately 15~30 min before feeding.

plamenh wrote:

Close him in the box to have his quiet time. Let him be until morning without feed. Suringe feed him chamomile tea and honey 5 ml in the morning. 10 ml formula mix with tea ahn honey at lunch time an if he does not womit 20 ml at the afternoon. He needs rest obviously and not love afair. I give Spartrix on empty crop approximately 15~30 min before feeding.

Plamenh - I did what you said. I gave him the spartrix in the morning, then waited and then the tea and then I bought baby food (a recommendation from my vet) because I don't have formula. I mixed it with the tea and gave him 15 ml - he received another 20 ml in the late afternoon. He did not only like the food I think because he swallowed deliberately but he did not vomit since 24 hrs. now. :bounce:

I also left him in his box, covered with a big towel, half dark, so that he really had his quiet time. He did not have any seizures today only a bit stargazing. So he seems to improve again. He was totally quiet today - how sad. But I left him alone. I think it was the right thing to do.

Thank you very much Plamenh. When he starts cooing again I will let him out again, for a short time and then we'll see...

That is great Petra, let him accumulate energy and gain some strenght. Once recovered in full he can flirt again.

Oh yes, Plamenh, I definitely will. Step by step. This little bugger always thinks he can do it and then it is clear he cannot. How human like is this

Hormones... Males are victims of their nature (plummage, scales, fur or clothing) makes no exeption.

- not only men I would say....

Today was another day without vomiting. Willy started even to coo again. But this time I was firm - he stayed in his box and will do so still for a little while.
Pina is the only one who is running around. I think she misses her dad and playmate but what can I do. Today she sang for me again - very sweet noises - I have to catch that on camera....

Plamenh, how long do you think should I wait until feeding some few pellets again to Willy? I thought about another 3-4 days? Then changing from 2 x formula to 1 x formula and a few pellets - what do you think?

3~4 days is quite reasonable time. Could you maybe let him try seeds in a deep dish. Pellets may be too oilly for his stomach.
Once i finish syringe feeding my PMV pijies, I start them gradually on raw peas, wheat and corns, same as I would wean youngsters.

Plamenh, he still does not eat by himself. But I can make pellets with only a tiny portion of peanuts just for the smell and taste. What about mixing oatmeal flakes, breadcrumbs and only a tiny portion of peanuts into pellets? And unfortunately Willy does not seem to like the de-frosted peas. Whenever I tried these he desperately started to struggle in his burrito wrap like crazy.

Just had an idea - maybe I could put the dry sweetcorn into some water and let it sit for a day or so in order to get it softer?