The PMV Thread with Pina, Willy, Jimi and Winnie

Hi Petra

It sounds like fairly typical progression.

Sweetie would turn circles and coo, though a hen.

Neither of my last year's first two 'balcony babies' much liked having to be fed in the 'burrito' at first, but were OK once it became 'routine'. Mini was difficult, because the twisting of her neck was so much worse than Sweetie, but she and I perservered.

Some of these PMV birds do get rather tattered looking tail feathers. Sometimes a few other feathers seem to break at the tip or get bent somehow, although I don't know exactly what causes it - whether they are somehow weakened by the virus or whether it's due to their movements.

I found that even Mini, the worst affected, was able to drink water - she would slide her beak in the pot almost sideways if she had to

I also had Sleepy, who was from a nearby town, but he was not affected as much as 'my' two. Even so, he still does not fly but Mini and Sweetie do. Sweetie was flying even before I took her to her permanent home in the aviary.

Just no way to predict how much of a recovery a bird will make.

You are doing a great job with them, Petra.

I'm really glad to hear they're making good progress.
The plastic boxes look great, lovingly fitted out!

Great news that Pina and Willy are improving (this is entirely because of the love and care you have shown towards them). You have done an awesome job Petra Wishing that they continue on the road to recovery from here.

You will not believe this but we have PMV patient#3: it is our sweet Jimi, our philosopher.

More than 10 days ago I think I have observed the symptoms such as slight head tremors, trembling and the need for long pauses to sit somewhere. But there was no way to catch him. He appeared each day for breakfast though and sometimes slept on the balcony. I knew he was sick as well but I hoped as long as he could eat and fly he would overcome this illness.

Today he was feeding again quite a lot from my hand but then I realized that he started stargazing and was slightly circling on the board on the balcony. He then flew to the ground where I was finally able to catch him, which meant he was really in trouble.

So away to the DIY store again and buying another box. First he was shocked of course but now I think he is quite happy to sit in a warm and safe place and I have less to worry about. Maybe he can recover soon again. I am glad that he came here to seek help - so it seems at least.

Willy has started to drink a bit on his own too. I am still worried about about his digestion but this will take time probably. Today I have started to give him cinnamon tea although he hates it.

I think our family got infected at the same time. Pete, Emma, Winnie and Angelo do not show any signs and I pray that they stay healthy. My resources for hospitalizing are at the end right now. I have not seen Joey for at least 4 weeks - I can only hope that he is okay and stays away for some time as well as Peppi.

Who would have known how quickly things can change and that you sometimes have absolutely no time to get prepared. But that is life - isn't it? I try to cope with this, with the help of you guys and my partner of course. Without his help I couldn't do this either. If I hadn't learned already from you so much it would not have been possible for me to handle this situation.

I've just been catching up with the updates and am so pleased to read about their improvement.

I particularly love their 'hospital' rooms, that is absolutely ideal and they look very safe and content.

Well done Petra,

Janet

OMG, Jimi too?!

Poor Jimi, or should I say 'clever Jimi', coming to you for help! They must really trust you!
And look at you, within a short time, panic and despair ceased to be present when such an emergengy arose. Instead there is serenity, resolve, experience and an incredible strength!
What a champion!

Unfortunately this morning I discovered another pijji with symptoms. Not one of ours but one of those who regularly come for feeding - I think it's Sitting Bull. At the moment I cannot do anything about it but leaving enough food whenever I see him. If he gets worse I will catch him and bring him to the animal shelter center.

I had written to a couple of orgs to find out who could take sick pigeons because I could not imagine that there is no-one in a huge city such as Munich and I was called by the director of the Munich animal shelter who told me that I could bring them the sick pigeons. I haven't been there yet to check it out and whether they are really willing to take PMV pigeons but we will see if they will keep their word. Apparently they have something like a pigeon house. I am not going to give them to the emergency vets again - they will only kill them.

I have yet to check out the birdclinic in Schleißheim which is in the North of Munich what they are doing with PMV birds od if they could possibly take care - but I don't really think so. But perhaps they have contacts of rehabbers. But I want to talk to them first personally.

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Today Pina is feeling quite well. I let her out of her box again and she did a lot of helicoptering. She seems to be much happier. I have just "bordered" a little space in the livingroom where she cannot get into trouble - just like you would do it for small children.

Willy is still too thin and needs still a lot of warmth. I have to feed him more often. But he seems to be not as depressed as before. He coos from time to time when he sees the other pijjies outside. The stupid thing is that I don't have the right scales to weigh him really. The one I have got is too small - perfect for Pina because she sits still but Willy I would have to put him in a small carbox in order to be able to check his weight. He is the wild one and does not like to be caught and handled. Each time it is a fight.

Jimi slowly seems to adapt to his situation of sitting in a box. Cannot say much right now whether he is going to feed himself or not. We will see.

I am much more relaxed now that the situtation seems to be under control after I was so very much in panic. I am quite tired but I can sleep during the night, knowing that our sick family members are safe. What a relief...

Thank you for the update, Petra.
Will continue to think positive thoughts for Pina, Willy and Jimi .
Bless their hearts.
I am also glad to hear that things are at a point where you are able to relax some.
You are doing an amazing job.

Please keep us posted.

I'm so relieved it's getting better and maybe there are some resources for you. It would be wonderful to find another person, caring and dedicated as you, that can help.
One of the tips I got from my wildlife vet is this...if you need to weight a bird that doesn't want to be weighed, you can put the bird in a paper bag for the amount of time needed to weigh him and the bag will keep him confined and actually will settle the bird down. It works very well.

Charis, that's a wonderful tip! I will try that tomorrow. Why didn't I get to this idea

pigeonwriter wrote:

Charis, that's a wonderful tip! I will try that tomorrow. Why didn't I get to this idea

because you needed me to tell you...just like I needed Deb to tell me.
Hugs to you and your flock.

Matilda wrote:

I'm so relieved it's getting better and maybe there are some resources for you. It would be wonderful to find another person, caring and dedicated as you, that can help.
One of the tips I got from my wildlife vet is this...if you need to weight a bird that doesn't want to be weighed, you can put the bird in a paper bag for the amount of time needed to weigh him and the bag will keep him confined and actually will settle the bird down. It works very well.

Huh , brilliant! I could never weigh them. Now got your idea. Thanks Charis.

I keep two cardboard boxes, about 16 inches long, but narrow, so that a pigeon fits in. One is specifically for PMV cases. Top closed, but air comes in, and pigeon goes quiet. Nice and easy,

The idea with the paper bag worked perfectly!!! I fortunately had a small one - just right for pigeons - even with handles. So I could weigh Jimi as well as Willy.

Willy has taken up weight - I could feel it - he now weighs 380 gr. It must have been the homemade pellets - I call them powerpellets - Pina is quite eager to eat them and in the meanwhile Willy munches them too quite nicely. Jimi has to get used to them still. Pina is the funny part - when I put the pellets into her mouth she opens it so wide as if she wants to swallow my finger as well. Didn't know that a small pijji like her could open her mouth this wide.

Yesterday I discovered that Jimi additionally has an injury in his crop - the lower part. Apparently a big puncture wound, approx. 1 cm, it is not open. There is a hard crust in the opening - maybe tissue that has closed the hole from within. There was a bit of infected tissue still - not much. I put Bach flower rescue remedy on his wound. I did not see this the first day because the feathers were covering this spot. Only when I examined him more closely yesterday I could feel that hard spot on his breast.

Jimi also sometimes makes strange noises and movements with his beak - it's like teeth chattering when a human has high fever. - I have no idea what this means- you can really hear it - it is different from the behaviour pigeons make when it's too hot. Could it be fear?


I am also in close contact with Cynthia and "talked" to her about this new problem.

Today Jimi's injury already looked better than yesterday - even smaller I think. So there might be no need to do anything at all. I will watch this further . There is no fluid coming through this injury. I am not even quite sure whether it is part of the crop at all.

I gave him 5 ml cinnamon tea first thing in the morning as well as the others and he seems to adapt to this very well. An hour later I fed him the homemade pellets and some de-frosted peas in between and he seems to be quite content. He has picked in his food for the first time - leaving a total mess :eek: - so I cannot say whether he actually ate something but he drank alone from his pot - this I could see. Tomorrow I will start him on the Argentum. He did not make these strange noises any more today. Maybe this was fear the last 2 days. Poor little Jimi - but I think he slowly gets used to the situation. I really hope so.
.

I'm glad the bag worked for you. I find it to be so easy.
That's a shame about little Jimmi. Sounds like he may also have had an enounter with a Hawk.
FYI...bird pus is different that ours...it is hard, more the consistancy of cottage cheese and it doesn't flow the way ours does and so often it needs to be removed. I don't know that the hard thing you are feeling his his crop is pus, but it could be especially since there is a puncture wound.
Those puncture wounds can be really hard to see with all the feathers.

Charis, the plug or crust I can feel is hard like bone so it might be a mixture of dried blood and dirt and of course I would not dare to remove it. We will drive to the birdclinic tomorrow to get it checked out whether there has to be done anything. Will keep you updated.

Thank you. I was sure you would take him to the clinic.
I wouldn't have wanted you to try to remove it....I wouldn't have either unless I know for sure. I was only explaining what it may be.

pigeonwriter wrote:

* The idea with the paper bag worked perfectly!!! I fortunately had a small one - just right for pigeons - even with handles. So I could weigh Jimi as well as Willy.

Willy has taken up weight - I could feel it - he now weighs 380 gr.
** It must have been the homemade pellets - I call them powerpellets -

* I've heard about the paper bag method of weighing. I love it that yours comes complete with handles.

** I think you need to look into marketing those 'powerpellets' of yours, Petra.

Hi Petra,

I'm glad to hear your patients are making real progress! You won't know what to do with all the free time when they get well!

About weighing pijjies, I usually use the 'burrito' method: first I put the towel on the scales and set them to zero, then wrap the pijjie, head and all so he'll stay still, and weigh him. But I like the paper bag method even better.

Another use for a paper bag with handles: carry one with you whenever there might be a chance of rescuing a pigeon. It's very handy to transport injured birds, and when not in use it fits in your pocket when folded.

Teresa wrote:

Another use for a paper bag with handles: carry one with you whenever there might be a chance of rescuing a pigeon. It's very handy to transport injured birds, and when not in use it fits in your pocket when folded.

Ain't that the truth! I know we've transported two from the city in flimsy bags. Another we put in a shopping bag to take back to deal with a tricky string injury - in the car, there were strange sounds coming from the bag, but when we checked it was because there was some seed in the bottom of it and the pigeon was feeding his face with it. A hungry pigeon don't care where he is, if there's food available

Having found a puncture wound on Jimi pretty much indicates he was the victim of a predator attack.
I'm glad you are going to have him seen by a vet, Petra.

I know with our Pij'ette, she had a fairly good sized 'knot' at the bend of her wing where she was injured. I thought it was just an injury that healed improperly.
It was only after I visited our local rehabber that we discovered poor Pij'ette had a horrible abscess. It was discovered by plucking a few feathers from around the wound site that I thought was healed.
Thankfully this had not entered her blood system or the outcome could have been devastating.

From that experience I learned that we really never know what 'lies beneath' until a thorough examination has been performed.

Sending my best wishes to you and Jimi.
Please let us know how the vet visit went.

Just wanted to give you a short update on our 3 little patients:

Pina: poops are getting better, she is quite active if not a bit hyperactive - so I let her out of her box each day for a couple of hours. Her circling is still continuing, especially when she is excited. Also she puts her head down but in the meanwhile her neck muscles seem to become stronger so that she is able to get straight much quicker. She is training her flight muscles as soon as she is out of the box and manages to come off the ground at least for 15 cm. I find that this is really a major improvement. She is keeping her weight of 330gr.

Willy: poops are getting better as well. Although he seems to be much happier now - not as depressed as before because he coos often during the day - his neurological symptoms are still bad. The head trembling has subsided a little bit but his coordination is still awful. He has problems to find his balance when he is agitated. I also took him out of the box today and put him under a mosquito netting which I still had to see how much he is able to come off the ground. As soon as he was out of the box he also started helicoptering but had absolutely no power. But I think when I let him out each day as well he can train his flight muscles as well and he will become stronger eventually. His weight is stable at 360 gr right now. A bit too thin still but this will improve too I think when I let him run outside the box more often now.

Jimi: poops are getting better as well. He still seems to be a bit depressed and is a bit listless. I think he will need some time still to adopt to the situation. I will let him out of the box tomorrow as well to see how he is doing and whether this has a positive effect on his mood. His weight has increased by 10 gr, he is now on 380 gr. I am still checking his injury each day which is definitely improving. The skin around the injury looks healthy and everything looks dry. I am still applying Rescue drops each day and holy ashes from Sai Baba in India which has a high healing power. I have often enough tested it myself on all kinds of injuries and leasions. So I spared him the stress of the drive to the birdclinc, waiting for a long time, handling etc. If anything starts to look suspicious I will go the vet of course. But for the moment I think there is no need.
He has started to preen himself since yesterday and he started to pick in his foodie pot but does not really eat yet - at least not enough. But he is able to drink as well as the other two.

I am still starting the day giving them fluid, then medication and then they are handfed after a little pause with my power pellets and de-frosted peas in between.
They are fed again in the early evening. I will check whether they are drinking afterwards in the meanwhile. If not they are getting fluid again.

I have stopped giving them cinnamon tea in the meanwhile - they get water with vitamins and apple vinegar - to see whether their poop is getting wetter again - but it did not. It is nearly normal looking in the meanwhile...

Appreciate the update, Petra.

They are all three quite a reasonable weight, Petra, compared to my rescues from the balcony. But I guess with mine, the food supply was pretty uncertain, as I would not be there every day to put out the pigeon mix (and when I was, there were really too many birds for what was available).

Progress can be slow with this illness for some - it's really unpredictable. My MiniPidge still had problems keeping her head up by the time I took her to be with the aviary crowd and could not not fly. That was after I had her nearly three months. But, we already had two in a similar state and despite the problems they managed very well. However, after a quite short time with the rest, Mini was suddenly all straightened up and flying. Others have got better very quickly and never looked back.

Your babies are getting the love and care they need, and that's the important thing

This is really good news, Petra! All three seem to be progressing very well.
Very best wishes for their continued recovery.